Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Stereo Beginner needs advice on audio system set up

Serious music lover has a budget of $1500 to form a decent audio system. I am really a beginner with the hardware. I will only use the system for classical and light acoustic music and some vocals. It looks like I only need a two channel system. But to get better sound quality, I may need a pre-amplifier and an amplifier, so called seperates, if I am not misunstanding. For the speakers, I tend to choose Axiom M60 as it has good reputation and fit the budget.

I really appreciate it if anyone here could give me serious advice on brand and specific products of pre-amp, amp, cables, and CD-player that would fit my budget. I dream a long time to set up such a good quality music system and this may be the only chance I have. I notice that some people here post their audio system component list, but I have no clue about the price and even what are those names.

The M60s would be wonderful for "classical and light acoustic music and some vocals." However, with $900 of your $1500 budget going for the speakers, I don't think you can find a respectable pair of seperates for $600. But, you CAN find some fine receivers for even less than that, which will have the features you'd need, and will power the M60s with ease.

Go for a Harman Kardon 3480 receiver. I got mine for about $190(forgot the exact price, it was $190 give or take five bucks) on ebay refurbished from harmanaudio themselves.

Sitting in a room that opens up into two very small rooms and one large room - and sitting 8-10 feet away from them with them about 6 feet apart from each other, I can't make it run out of power. I put earplugs in and blasted it to silly levels to test this notion.. 120x2 honest watts is more than enough. M60s are even more efficient so it should be less of a problem, and especially with vocals and light acoustic music. My aforementioned test was done with heavy metal.

Use the money you didn't spend on amps that are audibly the same on something else - perhaps a subwoofer, perhaps on a trip to a resutrant, a nice SACD player, whatever.

I also think that after you purchase M60s, the remaining $600 will not be enough to buy some good separates. You are in the right track in thinking about Axioms and separates, as I really think that switching from a two channel receiver to a two channel power amp - preamp combo (all Rotel) was the best improvement I had in my system. See below what I have... Rotel combo msrp $1500, and Rotel CD player msrp $700, but you can get them with 10% discount or so...

Always, welcome. No, you haven't misunderstood what you read about separate components, but what you read has no factual basis. Receivers provide us with audibly flawless amplification within their power limits and using two or three separate boxes can't improve on that. Excellent receivers are available in the $400 area, such as the Pioneer 1015 and Yamaha 5890. They'll be fine in a two channel system and could be used if in the future you'd expand your M60 speaker setup to enjoy surround ambience from your stereo material, using DPLII processing.

Cables and speaker wire are commodity items which should be bought on the basis of price. Check local sources such as RadioShack, Home Depot, Walmart, etc. or online sellers such as Monoprice.com or Trianglecables.com.

Several CD/DVD players are available in the $100-$150 area which are excellent, such as the Panasonic F87. Don't overlook the convenience of a multi-disc player.

Another vote for the HK 3480. It's hard to beat in terms of high quality amplification for the money, and it will leave you enough $$ to get a nice CD player. My music system uses an HK3270, the older smaller version of the 3480, along with either M40s or M60s depending on when you look.

I disagree. I think that separates DO make a difference in a 2 channel application. Not so sure about HT. I say that not from what the others or dealers say, but from my own experience. I switched from Rotel RX-1052 Stereo receiver (100wpc) to RC-1070 preamp and first to RB-1070 power amp (130wpc) and then finnally to RB-1080 (200wpc), and noticed a great improvement. You have to try both (receiver, separates) to believe it, or you can go to some high end audio store to audition.

I taped a banana to the side of my right speaker, and since noticed the bass response is much tighter and more authorative, and I hear more of everything..

I agree with JohnK's "no factual basis" claim - same with seperates as with my banana. Keep "within their limits" in mind, however, as receivers are not often found with 200-400 wpc like seperates are, nor do they drive 4 ohm loads as well most of the time(higher distortion in HK's case, current limiting in other cases, etc)

For your needs, focus on a good 2 channel system. M60's are a good baseline, you won't need a sub. Maybe consider a used tube amp? That'd sound great w/ your musical tastes. Make sure to look at Audiogon for some deals.

take it from someone that just went from seperates to a receiver. There is no comparison, good seperates are way better then a receiver. Granted, i have never heard a Denon 5805 or hk 7300.

Now, getting good seperates for 600 is going to be a challenge. You can try some Carver amps and preamps on Ebay or something. Or, and this is my advice, get a receiver with pre-outs on it. Spend as much as you can on that receiver. Now, use that for the time being to power the 60's. Once you get some extra cash again, get a good 2 channel power amp and use the receiver as the pre-amp.

You didn't mention wether a tuner is required. If you don't need a tuner, I would look at an intigrated amp. You can always purchase a tuner later if required. For 2 channel you can get a nice Rotel amp on Ebay for a few hundred bucks. My experience with Rotel is that due to their product's basic design, usually only serious music lovers tend to buy them, wich means they also tend to take care of them. And the Rotel stuff are built like tanks, very durable. I have owned both the RA810 and the RA840BX 20 and 50 watts respectivly. Don't let the low numbers here scare you. They are hight current amps and have lots of power to drive the M60s. And sound great!!! I think the most important part of an amp is the power supply, so make sure you research the powersupply of any component you buy.

You might also consider Cambridge Audio or NAD (although I don't think they are build as well) still have great sound.

I would be more careful with a used CD player because CD players have moving parts that can wear out. But any CD player from the mentioned companies should sound quite nice.

A tube amp will give a warmer sound and "may" seem more natural, however something to keep in mind. Tubes also add noise, and classical music tends to have many quit passages. Just something to be aware of.

In reply to:

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take it from someone that just went from seperates to a receiver. There is no comparison, good seperates are way better then a receiver.

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Ah, but that's just it. How can you know separates are way better than a receiver if there was no comparison? And I'm not talking about a casual listen to one, then swap the wires and listen to the other kind of comparison. Yes, yes, I'm picking at your words, but to get a real sense of which is actually (if at all) better, you need to make sure both are level-matched to within 1db of each. And then to get an even better sense, the person with the most at stake -- i.e. you who purchased the upgrade -- should not be aware which device is playing when. This is essential in order to remove brand/price/personal bias from your comparison.

Get an integrated or separates. Pretty much all receivers suck for pure two channel music listening (although Marantz has had a good history). Most people who ditch receivers for separates come to this conclusion.

This nice thing about Axiom is that they are sensitive speakers and can be driven by a low amount watts.

You could hit your budget with a NAD integrated and NAD cd player used and a little bit over if you buy one of the two new. I like the NAD stuff with Axiom because it's a bit darker sounding than Rotel gear.

If you want to save on software, are planning to gets tons of it, and willing to spend the time learning turntables, you should get a turntable. The amount of nice classical records out there for $1 to $3 is astonishing. And many are recordings that will never be on cd. The downside is time spent cleaning records and money spent on various sundries (fluids, brushes, etc.).

"Always, welcome. No, you haven't misunderstood what you read about separate components, but what you read has no factual basis. Receivers provide us with audibly flawless amplification within their power limits and using two or three separate boxes can't improve on that."

No factual basis? Alan says:

Specifications (distortion, noise, etc.) of preamp-processors and power amps are usually a bit superior to an A/V receiver, since there is better internal physical separation of wiring pathways (more room), hence less chance of interference (and resulting noise) from nearby hum-causing component parts. And having separates also means that you can upgrade to a larger or different power amplifier while keeping your preamp-processor.—A.L.

I have M60's and run them with the NAD C320BEE integrated amp. For $500 Canadian (new) the amp deserves all the great reviews it gets and IMO this really is a nice combo if you're on a budget. I don't have experience with the NAD C521BEE CD player, but it gets a lot of good reviews too.

If in the US, some good prices can be found on www.SaturdayAudio.com. List price for C320BEE = $399 and C521BEE = $299, but if you call they will likely give you a deal.

thank you guys for the inputs. There got to be a reason that seperates cost much more than receivers. I tend to make a compromise to go for integrated amps.

It looks like NAD C352 integrated amp could be a good choice for me. But the user review for this product on audioreview.com is not that good, the overall rating is only 3 of 5. I am wondering if I should go for HK3480 that has a lot positive review (someone even think it is comparable to a $1000 integrated) or go to ebay to find a integrated Rotel such as RA1070 for a half price.

Thanks. I tend to go for integrated now. I saw a Rotel RA1070 today on ebay. Any comment on this one? I went to Rotel's website, could not even find this product under the integrated category. Is it a discontinued product from Rotel?

I have the NAD 352 integrated and don't let those reviews fool you. The NAD website has a number of glowing reviews on this unit. I am running it with the 60's and the sound is great. I don't know how big your listening area is but the 80 watts has been plenty enough for me and my neighbors.........

You certainly can't go wrong wiht the H/K 3480.If I were to have a limited budget of $1500 for a whole system this would be on top of my list for power.

Yes, RA-1070 is an older version of Rotel. You can read a review of it (taken from Rotel website) HERE

How much was it?