Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion The Water Cooler Why do parents....

(Start Rant)

Let their young children go to "innapropriate" concerts?

My wife and I volunteered to do a fund raiser to help get a community theater moving to the next "level" tonight by running (with the help of 8 other dedicated parents) a concessions stand at the new Wells Fargo Arena in Des Moines, IA for a Green Day concert. Now, Green Day has been around for a while, and most kids of impressionable age have heard their popular songs, so they ask mom and dad if they can go to the concert. Mom and dad, not knowing any better says yes and either drops the kids off with their friends or even go to the cencert with them.

That is all fine and dandy, but then when Green Day throws out a swear word or two, you say, hmmm... I wonder if mom and dad (or the kids for that matter) realized THAT was coming. Move on to the sexual grunting and groaning (again, we were in the consessions stand, so we couldn't see what actions went with that, but can only imagine), and then a few more swear words F'ing this, and F'ing that, add some slang words for female sexual organs, and I would be terrified to have my 11 year old daughter there (see wanted to go because some of her other 6th grade friends were going, but we said no). We saw kids that could be no more than 7-8 years old running around with no sign of mom, dad, older sibling, or anyone looking like an adult.

Maybe I am getting old. I AM 33 you know, so that's over the hill for most of the people at this concert. Some things that the band did to keep the concert a "good" one was respectible. They (Green Day) made the arena drop down to a 1 beer per person, per ID, per purchase maximum. They also required us to ID EVERYONE, and we could not server bottled water. We had to pour the bottled water into a cup to give to the customer. This was all to prevent drunken behavior, and bottle throwing, even though they were plastic bottles. It also made it easier on us because we were forced to card everyone, so the underage kids kept away. Then they wanted the beer shut off for the last hour of the concert, which helped us to get things cleaned up sooner, and allowed concert goers to sober up a little. That is the good part, but the language and sexual content (just what we could hear) was definately for adults. I know, kids swear, heck I swore when I was younger. But does an 8 year old need to be exposed to that? I don't think so. Of course, as a parent how do you screen concerts to make sure that they are OK for younger family members? Good question.

End Rant...

Billie Joe showed off his "dookie" to the audience when they were here supporting the album of the same name.

The prepubescents should probably have stuck to the circus, but for the mid teens and later... have at it. My first arena concert was spent inhaling second hand weed haze and involved me being punched in the mouth... and all the little firetrap punk venues I've been in... if I'd kept the teeth I'd collected from the pits, I'd have a fine necklace.

To quote NOFX:
"Lost in a sea of combat boots,
flush the bouncers with wasted youth
When did punk rock become so safe?
When did the scene become a joke?
The kids who used to live for beer and speed
now want their fries and coke
Cursing and flipping birds are not allowed,
in fact let's keep noise levels down
(...)
I want conflict! I want dissent!
I want the scene to represent...
Our hatred of authority,
our fight against complacency
stop singing songs about girls and love!
You killed the owl! You freed the dove!
confrontation and politics...
Replaced with harmonies and shticks
When did punk rock become so tame?
These f***ing bands all sound the same
We want our fights we want our thugs!
We want our burns we want our drugs!
where is the violent apathy?!
These f***ing records are rated G!"

Bren R.

Jeez! So much anger. How sad.

That brings up a point which I've wondered about for some time. I have children who listen to this music and we've had discussions about the teenage angst which is prevalent on these albums. They've never been able or didn't want to tell me the answer. I hear alot about the anger which is prevalent in much of today's punk bands. Forgive me if I'm naive, but just want they are angry about is vague. I can understand causes, like I'm against this or that. Where exactly is this emotional upheaval aimed at. Is it the government, pop music, the parents, etc? Or all of the above?

what nofx song is that from bren?

As far as the music..

Get your kids into country. So many good artists and songs and they rarely use an "harsh" language.

And on a different note i wouldnt be too worried about the stuff because i can just about guarantee that your kids are hearing that stuff in school if not talking like that themselves.

In response to:

Poster: Haoleb
Subject: Re: Why do parents....

As far as the music..

Get your kids into country. So many good artists and songs and they rarely use an "harsh" language.

And on a different note i wouldnt be too worried about the stuff because i can just about guarantee that your kids are hearing that stuff in school if not talking like that themselves.
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Yeah, but country music is so depressing (personal opinion here).

As for your other comment about kids hearing it elsewhere, you bet. I know that they do, but at what point does society say that it was time to get back to some level of moral living? Holy crap, did I just way that.... ARGH! I AM getting old.

As the father of two daughters, and maybe all fathers of daughters (not that fathers of sons can't be this way too), I am VERY concerned about what kids do these days. There is NO WAY any caring parent would just sit by and let the world raise their kids. The world, unfortunately, spends more time with my kids. In school, on TV, friends, activities, etc, vs. my couple of hours a day I get to "be around" my kids.

That is why I started this thread, is it that parents are just trying to be "cool" to their kids, or is it that they are so uninformed about things like "punk" (I know, GreenDay is mild compared to most) concerts? I would rather make sure that anything that I am taking my kids to or letting them go to is something that is PG at most (my oldest is 11, so she doesn't even watch PG-13). Maybe it is a futile effort, but why should it be. I grew up with very much an unrestricted youth. I had a couple of basic rules, but really was left to discover the world on my own. I never took up drinking (nope, you won't see me hanging out in the "Beer Thread"), never smoked anything. I went through a black period where I wore all black and so forth, my parents didn't do anything to stop me. I knew that swearing in the house was NOT allowed, although in high school I swore, I drove recklessly, and liked girls that were a bit "agressive"... I watched R rated movies when I was maybe 14 years old, etc, etc, etc. A lot of that held over into college as well. It took me a while to get out of that phase too. I honestly think that if I had held on to the way I used to dress, speak, act, etc, I would NOT be where I am today. While I am not the most successful person in the world, I know that I would be where some of my high school friends are. Stuck back in that small town of 2000 people, sitting at the bar getting wasted every weekend, making $12 an hour, living in a trailer home. I don't pitty them, they made that choice, and that lifestyle is fine if they want it, but I didn't.

I guess, that the main thing is that I want the best for my kids. They will make mistakes. Some will be bigger than others, but why SHOULDN'T I as a parent want to filter out as much crap as I can? Give them some time that they can put down their defenses such as not having to deal with peer pressure, or not having to worry about hearing, what to my kids know is, bad language... If even for an hour or two.

OK. This thread doesn't need to go on. I think that after all of my ramblings and other people's responses it is clear that some people don't care what their kids do (like my parents when I was growing up), and some go to extremes to prevent their kids from even interacting with society. I am floundering around somewhere in the middle I guess.

nickbuol,

Your story reminds me of a situation I had about 11 years ago. It was around Christmas time and it is my family's tradition to make X-mas lists of things that they want. I had a cousin who was 12 at the time and she asked for Green Day's "Dookie" album. I was 21 and a Green Day fan, but as soon as I saw that CD on her list, I immediately informed my aunt and uncle (her parents) about the contents of the lyrics and they decided against getting that CD for her. I would consider my aunt and uncle very good parents, but hardly aware of Green Day at the time.

As for me, I am almost in the same boat as you. I am 32 and have 3 daughters (the last two are twins). My oldest is only 20 months old, but we work hard on not letting her do things such as watch TV or even Baby Einstein videos. At her young age, she loves to just sit down and "read" her books or have her parents sit with her. The reading must be devleoping her mind somewhat, because she is smart enought to watch her old man load the CD player and be able to imitate it almost perfectly. She also loves remotes. I know that she won't be this innocent forever and she will be influenced by what goes on in school, but at least we can provide a good foundation for her so she can make choices. When she gets old enough to want a movie or CD, I will be sure to follow the ratings system.

I agree 100%! My wife works at the San Jose Arena (HP Paviliion) and she is often amazed, and disappointed with parents who let their kids go to some of these shows un escorted. Listening to the music at home on your iPod, is a lot different than going to the shows. I have 2 teenage girls, I'll let them listen to artists where I would never let them go to a concert by that artist.

Yes there is swearing in the music, I don't have a big problem with that (some of it goes too far, and is not allowed). At shows there is rampant pot smoking, binge drinking, and out of control behavior. They are still too young to be in that kind of environment.

They have friends who's parants let them go to these shows. I think the parents want to be "cool" they think they are being good parents by treating their kids to these shows, so the kids can be cool in their peer groups. The parents are more concerned with their kids social status at school, than doing the right thing and establishing some boundaries. It's just bad parenting if you ask me.

The only thing worse is to let them listen to country music :-)

In reply to:

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They have friends who's parants let them go to these shows. I think the parents want to be "cool" they think they are being good parents by treating their kids to these shows, so the kids can be cool in their peer groups. The parents are more concerned with their kids social status at school, than doing the right thing and establishing some boundaries. It's just bad parenting if you ask me.

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I have seen this time and time again.When my kids were younger I would hear " your not cool " when ever they wanted to do some of the same things the other kids were doing.What I always told them was " I am not your freind, I am your father and you will listen to me, end of story.Far to often the parents want to be the kids freind and not the parent............wrong move if you ask me.

There is a happy middle ground too. There's no reason you can't be a parent AND a friend. Sure, it can be an elusive goal, but it's not impossible -- says the man with a 22 month-old son....

Well Peter my kids are now 21 and 19 years old.I haven't had a bit of trouble out of either one of them.So be your childs friend if you feel you must.They already had enough friends, they needed to have a father not another friend.

I just don't see the two as being mutually exclusive. I'm glad your methods worked for you, but children are as different as the parents who raise them.

Agreed.

I agree, you need to be a parent first, and a friend second.

In reply to:

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I agree, you need to be a parent first, and a friend second.

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Yep I also agree, otherwise you'll have a kid that will walk all over you...and that's really asking for trouble.

I've never thought of the children as friends. 26, 24, 20 are their ages. Be dependable and trustworthy as you want your children to be. They will return both.
My children learned early that a simple request for a non-essential got a simple answer; NO. A request with the reason got more merit and sometimes a yes.

I'm totally with you there. I didn't mean to imply that a buddy-buddy relationship was of the utmost importance. That's not always compatible with the ultimate goal of turning out a better human being than the people who created him or her.

I too think there is a middle ground. You can be your childs friend but you must be your child's parent. There are times when it is hard to accomplish both. Growing up in todays world is very difficult. The one thing we must do as parents is learn to listen to them. Listen without judgement. Remember a lot of the things they throw out there, they are just fishing for our reactions. If we can control the emotional response and keep the dialogue open our children will keep coming to us. It's when our kids don't feel comfortable coming to us, trusting us, that we have to start worrying. All too often I hear teens say my parents don't care about me, they don't listen to a word I say. When things get a little uncomfortable we tend to just want to shut things down. The answer is no because I'm the parent and I said no, period. If they hear that often enough they will turn to their peer group for answers and for acceptance.
oz

I agree with Wid, I'm 21 and my bro is 19 and we are GREAT sons compared to my friends and my parents friends' kids. My dad never did any "social" favors for me, although he would take me to "R" rated movies and play music than included cussing lyrics, hell, he would cuss at me and my bro like we were adults. Some would think this would present a problem. Solution? Do as I say and not as I do. You gotta problem with that? My dad would beat the hell outta me and problem would be solved. I still love my dad and thank him for making a respectable man outta me.

The NOFX song is "The Separation of Church and Skate" off "War on Errorism."

As for teenage angst... most "punk" bands (let's throw a wide label on all this stuff to make it easier) isn't really teen angst, most of the bands are in their 20s/30s in the genre, except, of course, for the punk boy-bands like Good Charlotte, who are just as created by the record label as New Kids on the Block were.

In the case of "Church and Skate" - it's about exactly what we're talking about here... "helicopter" parents (there's a good article in this month's Readers Digest on overprotective parents) making sure these shows are all played in well-lit, high-security venues... anger and dissent controlled, no swearing, just go and put on your punk rock clothes and then come home and straight downstairs to watch and breathe CNN - no being angry at what you see, just accept and fit in. They want punk to just be a shirt you put on, not a social movement.

When I grew up as a politically and socially active "punk", shows were played in 3rd floor firetrap walk-up venues, the lyrics reflected anger and disdain for government, corporations and whoever else was making profit-based decisions that hurt others.

Taking the anger and dissent out of punk music is like taking the love out of a ballad, or taking all the "sad crap" out of the blues. It ceases to exist.

As for not understanding what their anger is... it's not one concentrated cookie-cutter target, and it's as simple as reading the lyrics, punk lyrics are very cut and dried - they're like subculture poet-laureates, paid through album sales.

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"Seattle was a riot/They tried to pin on us/But we didn't show up/With gas and billy clubs/An unknown mass of thousands/Just trying to be heard/But there are no world leaders/Who want to hear our words" - Anti-Flag
(about the Seattle WTO demonstration in 1999)
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"This land is my land where ever I stand, what God has made let no man lease/Some of the phrases in that rhetoric you're stuttering must mean the opposite to you than it does to me/Yea being scared and confused I guess is part of the problem, is that what you wanted me to get out of that speech?/Is there another America from the one I live in and why do I get their TV?"
- World Inferno Friendship Society
(about how politicians' rhetoric and jingoism sound good on paper, and make a great rally cry, but their actions don't follow their words)
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"Tomorrow morning, different story and he'll be a different guy/he'll justify her black eye with another lie/She packs her bags in great temptation he's on his knees again he cries/A hug & kiss and a "don't know why" as a tear drops from her swollen eye/Apologies until tonight and another justified black eye" - No Use For A Name
(the cycle of spousal abuse)

So as you can see, it's easy to "not get what these kids are belly-achin' about" but among the plastic pop stars, there are a lot of musicians still saying some very profound things. If they say it loud and they swear when they say it, that's part of the culture, don't write off the message because you don't like the medium.

Bren R.

I have 4 daughters, 19, 15, 13 and 7 1/2. The oldest is beginning her sophomore year of college, my 15 year old just made the J.V. volleyball team, my 13 year old plays soccer and is on the honor roll and my youngest has been in ballet for several years and has just taken up the violin.

Having said that, I'm a very liberal parent. I believe that children must be respectful and we've tried to teach them as best we can. I totally trust my children and they have yet to let me down.

I'm sort of a counter-culture old dude myself. Did the long hair, rock and roll thing. I can relate. I think there are some parents who fear their kids see them as part of the problem, and sometimes probably rightfully so. Once you have kids it is natural to worry about their well being. My son has friends who I might describe as being in the goth culture. One day a group of them came to the door. I went to tell my son that he had visitors. As a joke, I told him that the Manson family was at the front door.