Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Am very upset!

So I bought the Epic 80 system, which I like very well. But then again these are my first speakers ever, so am sure would have been happy with pretty much anything. They do a great job, except this.... They shut down my reciever! And my reciever is no slouch here is what I have. Onkyo TXDS989 and here is a link to a review http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_7_3/onkyo-tx-ds-989-receiver-8-2000.html .
Well anyways my system shuts down when my volume is at 82.. which being thx certified is the optimal volume to listen to movies at. At that level it friggen shut down my system. I went through and checked all connection, called service centers over my reciever. And went to the AV boards. They ask what omhs my speakers are, i tell them that my main towerspeakers the M80ti are 4 ohms. But I keep telling them it must be a over sensative circuit in the receiver, that it's not my speakers! WRONG. as of this moment my receiver has been going over half an hour with my neighbors 8 ohm speakers at a volume of 95, when at a volume of 83 (... which i remind you so you have a refferance to how loud this is.. is the volume THEY, and they being Lucas Films believe that you should listen to movies at ...) the m80ti shuts down my system. I am upset right now, I have been dicking around with this for 2 days now, and now I am convinced it's the m80ti that is causing this problem. I bought this for my home theater setup, and now i find out that it dosn't handle the volume of sound that I want.

Very unhappy
Marty

its not that the M80's cant handle the volume. Its that your reciever doesnt have enough guts to push them to the volume you want. my suggestion is get a seperate power amp for the front speakers if you have pre-amp outputs for those channels or get a reciever that can handle a 4 ohm load. be mad at yourself for not making sure your reciever could handle the speaker load. not the speakers.

Haloed is on the ball.

Is there a switch on your Onkyo? Can you change a setting that tells it the main speakers are 4 ohm (or even 6 ohm would be better) as opposed to 8ohm or higher?

Read your user manual about that, and confirm that it can, in fact, PROPERLY handle a 4ohm load.

Ok I am more calm now. It's not that I didn't do my research, if you read up and the review of my receiver, the guy tested with ALL speakers at 4 ohms, and had no problem with the receiver. And talking to other people, many of them run 4 ohm speakers. That is why I thought it was the receiver that was the problem not the m80ti. And at the volume I am asking the speakers to play at, dosn't seem too much to ask for. So I think to myself is this normal, and from what I have read, and the replys I have gotten, I am thinking not, maybe there is something wrong with a speaker? How would I go about finding out if there is a deffect with 1 or both m80ti speakers? Now that I have vented in the prevous post, it is time to figure out a solution. Any sugestions?

Marty

check your private messages 2xs

2xs,

Yes, indeed it is surprising to me that the M80's shutsdown your Onkyo 989, a receiver that "officially" supports 4-ohm loads. As ravi_singh has suggested, I would first check the speaker load (ohm) switch on the Onkyo. If it does exist, make sure that the "low" ohmage is selected there. It should solve the problem.

Another thing that comes to my mind is the ventilation. Is your Onkyo placed so that it gets plenty of ventilation? The user manual should state the minimum recommended clearance etc. For example, do not place another piece of equipment directly on top of the receiver. If the Onkyo does not get enough ventilation, it might activate thermal shutdown, especially when driving 4-ohm loads (which makes the power amps generate more heat).

With regard to the possibility of one of your M80's being defective, I would try listening to each one of them separately (just temporarily disconnect one of them, or turn the balance control to the extremes). Place your ear close to each one of the six drivers on each M80 to find out whether every driver sounds "normal." At any rate, the defective speakers are relatively remote possibility here -- If one of the M80's is defective, (1) it would sound overtly wrong; and (2) the receiver would shutdown rather immediately.

Looking at the receiver on Onkyo's site, they don't seem to suggest below a 6 Ohm load. I can't see any switch to set it up for low impedance speakers but I'm downloading the manual now (12.3MB...). I would suggest trying each M80 by itself on both front channels to see if one of the speakers trips something and the other doesn't, but I doubt very much that is your problem.

A couple of things i will add here.
In owning the Onkyo DS797 receiver, i know that it can run a 4 ohm speaker. However, i have never driven a 4 ohm speaker setup extensively (i.e. 5 speakers all 4 ohms, or more than 2 - 4 ohm speakers in stereo) so i cannot personally report whether this receiver, when pushed, will shutdown.
Onkyo does not officially stamp these receivers for 4 ohm speakers and the manual specifically states that the speaker impedance per each speaker should be a minimum of 6 ohms (see page 21 of the DS989 manual).

2xs,
There is one thing you did not make very clear. In stating you were trying to set the M80s at a volume of 83, did you mean actual dB or did you mean 83 on the Onkyo volume scale?
If you meant 83 on the Onkyo volume scale then i think there is some confusion about what a good volume level for listening should be. If this is the case, then in driving a 5 speaker configuration with the 4 ohm M80s at a level of 80+ on the Onkyo volume, i'm not at all surprised it shut down.

The volume at which you are describing your testing is QUITE high. The highest i have ever turned the volume on my DS797 was 84 on the same Onkyo scale and i measured 105dB peak sound. I did this to see just how loud i could push my setup before potentially causing any damage. Certainly the SPL would begin to damage your ears with extended listening at that volume. My DS797 cooling fan was just clocking away during this test and the receiver itself got quite warm to the touch in a room with an average temp of 19C. I KNOW that my receiver was being pushed hard and i don't own the M80s, i own M60s, an 8 ohm speaker.
In 'testing' your receiver with a friend's speaker set at the level of 95, i'm surprised you did not blow out his speakers from distortion. I'm hoping you at least only ran this in stereo mode.
Again the assumption here is that the 95 refers to the Onkyo setting and not actual dB.

As for that hometheatrehifi review, information from the internet (or even in magazines) should not be taken as pure, unequivocal fact. Although this (professional?) individual reported using a 4 ohm speaker with the DS989 receiver, he did not state what volumes were being used (giving an idea as to how hard he was pushing the receiver). The differences b/w his 4 ohm speaker and another can also be quite significant as to how/when a receiver may go into protect mode. Although he successfully ran a 4 ohm speaker with this receiver, readers should not derive the conclusion that "this receiver could drive ANY 4 ohm speaker to ANY volume level".

You can check that your DS989 fan is running, ventilation clearance, 6 ohm switch vs. 8 ohm switch, and perhaps some of the other suggestions by other forum posters would be helpful, but ultimately i would say for your preferred volume levels, the DS989 receiver appears to be quite inadequate for your speaker system.

If you plan on purchasing any other products to replace the Onkyo in the near future, i would suggest giving the customer support lines a call and/or downloading the user manuals ahead of time and check to see if the company officially supports 4 ohm speakers with their products. The review sites are good to get an idea of options, features and someone else's opinion of audio products, but ultimately only the company info and the individual buyer can determine what is really required and best for them.

In reply to:

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Onkyo does not officially stamp these receivers for 4 ohm speakers and the manual specifically states that the speaker impedance per each speaker should be a minimum of 6 ohms (see page 21 of the DS989 manual).

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Hmm... The 989's web page cites the "dynamic power" with as low as 3-ohm loads. But then, these specs are for the THX Ultra 2-certified 989 Version 2...

Hi everyone- I just registered so I could respond to this post to offer a suggestion.

Don't forget that your center channel and your rears with this setup are all 6 ohms. Combine that with a much harder to push 4 ohm front set of speakers, and you're asking your receiver to work overtime. I'm willing to bet that it's not the speakers at fault here. It's the fact that you're running loads on an amp that wasn't designed to be stable past 8 ohms. Putting two 4 ohm loads as well as three 6 ohm loads can cause alot of stress on your receiver if it was built to withstand a "normal" setup of 8 ohms.

My suggestion would be to try playing only the 80's in two-channel stereo and see how the receiver responds at the same level you previously were having problems with. I doubut that you got stuck with two "bad" speakers as the chances of that seem to be quite slim, considering Axiom's reputation for high quality standards. If your amp doesn't shut down during the two-channel stereo playback, then you'll have a chance to hear if the speakers are both blown. Obviously, if it does, I'm still willing to bet that the amp is creating too much heat from having to work harder with the 4 ohm load.

Hope this helps make some sense of it for you. Good luck.
Kevin