Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners Is the EP500 sub location picky?

Hi Guys,

I have a approx 3500 cu ft room, with almost full openings on both sides leading into other rooms. I have only one spot that the wife will let place a sub. That being the right front corner by one of the mains. My question is, is do you have to drag the sub around the room to find a sweet spot, or does it slam in any corner you have?

Thanks Vince

Hey Vince, it will definately perform in about any position, but are things that can be done to get the most out of your options. Can you describe your room a bit better, or furnish a drawing/picture of the location? Will it have any room to breath from the side wall or back wall?

Check out the Harman White Papers, I think you'll find a wealth of help as well get a better understanding of subwoofer placement.



Sutter

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it will definately perform in about any position

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... whereas most subs performance is poor in anything but missionary...

Then how do you explain Jack's Karma Sutra photo?

C'mon you guys! I was smooching the 500, but we're just friends. HONEST!

yeah, uh huh... *finger quotes* just friends *finger unquotes*

I say we have an intervention. Don't want another Bigjohn situation on our hands. I hope Jack doesn't have pink grilles or I'm afraid it might be too late.

you know i was just thinking that! i wonder if ol' JuanGrande saw that pic; he'd be proud!!

You guys are gonna get BigJohn back here on the boards just so he can defend himself.

Not that the ends don't justify the means, though.

Guys,

I was all set to get an Hsu VTF-3 or SVS PB12 Plus/2. Then over on the AVS and audioholics site, someone said "get yourself Axiom EP500, and don't look back!" Since here I cannot post pics, please visit my post at http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16960

My swan diva speakers are nice rosewood, Axiom support says Cinnamon Beech is closest for custom finish....

I have no sub now...so going up to the EP500 might be scary??? Maybe a perfect match VTF-3 all I need?

I think I know what you Axiom guys are going to say....

I asked Axiom sales for special XMAS deal on EP500 sub...They said $1150 is special deal, or factory 2nd as stated on site...

Thanks so far,
Vince

Get one on the 30 day trial! You'll know for yourself!

Actually you could get them all and then figure it out.

V:
I'm sorry that you haven't gotten more of a response. It's likely that no one is confident in an answer.

I haven't heard any of the subs you are looking into, but I will say that the Axiom 500 is fast earning a great reputation among many who have listened or blind-tested.

Regarding your specific question, my personal, unfounded feelings are that no sub is harder to place than another. I believe that the long wavelengths of the subs' output combined with the non-directional characteristics make it unlikely that some subs are harder to place than others. That doeasn't mean that I don't believe subs benefit from fine-positioning; it just means that I don't think they are different from each other in placement requirements.

I'm the first to admit that my expertise in this field is completely, umm, non-expert, and there are others here that know far more than me on the subject. I just thought I would throw my two cents in to let you know that you're not being ignored!

Welcome to the forum, by the way!

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Regarding your specific question, my personal, unfounded feelings are that no sub is harder to place than another. I believe that the long wavelengths of the subs' output combined with the non-directional characteristics make it unlikely that some subs are harder to place than others. That doeasn't mean that I don't believe subs benefit from fine-positioning; it just means that I don't think they are different from each other in placement requirements.

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I would have to completly agree with what Marks said about placement or difficulties of. I would say that with any of your choices in subs you mention you would be thrilled with the results.

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I think I know what you Axiom guys are going to say....

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You should not assume as much, there are a lot of owners of Axiom speakers that have Hsu or Svs subs.

Vince, in general, unless a room is square or nearly so, the best location for a single sub, both from the standpoint of smoothness and output level, is directly in a corner. When there's a choice of corners, choose the one farther from some large opening.

HI Vince

Firstly on sub positioning in your room I agree you are going to get the best response in that corner. Your room is large and leaky so getting maximum room gain is what I would strive for. Just bear in mind that the tradeoff will be more peaks and nulls so strive for a sub with great linearity and be prepared to move the sub around in the corner or move the couch forward or backward somewhat to find the best listening position.

As for choice of subs any one will do the job for you so the question is which one will work best. The SVS sub with dual drivers will likely be the loudest but FR is not as linear in SVS subs which will accentuate your problem with room nodes. Also the drivers in the PB12/2 are not as good as the TV-12 in the Ultra I currently own so the sound quality will be compromised somewhat. In comparison the sound quality of the Axiom trumped the SVS Ultra hands down in the recent listening test which I participated in. All things considered I would back up the advice you have received and favour the 500 (or ideally a 600 in your leaky case) over the SVS alternative.

Hsu makes great subs too but not having heard it I have to reserve comment. I did however have a long talk with Dr. Hsu last month about his design philosophy which is remarkably similiar to Ian's. Nevertheless, I would surmise that the VTF-3 can't be as linear as the 500 because it doesn't have a DSP chip controlling the FR.

My suggestion is to order the 500 and test it for 30 days. I've checked out many subs recently and spent countless hours talking to Ron/Eric at SVS, Dr. Hsu and of course the good folks at Axiom before ordering 2 600s and 2 500s for my HT. While they are all pretty good at that price point Axiom subs are a cut above the others.

John,

Ordering 2 EP600's and 2 EP500's...WOW!!! The bass at your place will be incredible! Thanks for detailed comparison post, everything I have read, leads me to a conclude the EP500/600 are killer subs! and Hsu VTF-3 is 65-70% of a killer sub...without hearing them personally. It seemed like you guys had a good time at the AVS Craigsub home blind test session...

Thanks Vince

Vince...I got fed up with the room nodes and bottoming of my SVS sub so after studying the Harman papers as part of my long research, I felt the Axioms were untouchable when it came to flat FR and power. Quad subs will guarantee smooth response throughout the room in any seat. With one sub in my 3500cf room I noticed much variability in bass depending on where I was sitting. I also wanted to maximize headroom and minimize any power compression. Besides listening I did quite a bit of testing and analysing of graphical data. Depending on your budget you may want to consider 2 500s in your large leaky room.

I just read those Harman Papers on subwoofer analysis. That paper goes deep!!

Vince

Haha, yeah, they really get in deep with it, but that's what makes it such a useful tool, imo.


Sutter