Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Help Me Spend Some $$$$

Hello All,

I purchased a pair of M-60's and a VP-150 earlier this month. I've been trying to get my hands on some Axioms for a couple years now, and have always thought that when I had some extra dough, the Axioms would get the first at bat. Over the holidays, a buddy of mine received a set of M-60s based off a passing recommendation of mine. When he got them in I was finally able to hear the speakers I'd read so much about the last few years. I ordered mine the next day.

My original setup consisted of a Wal-Mart/HTIB from Sony (hey it’s better than nothing.... I think). A year or so later I inherited a set of old Radio Shack Mach One speakers. The Mach Ones became front speakers and I continued to use the plastic Sony cubes that came with the HTIB. The current setup is M-60 fronts, VP-150 Center, Mach Ones moved to surrounds, the plastic Sony powered sub from the HTIB, and the Sony receiver from the HTIB.

Impressions:

The overall clarity, particularly in the midrange was very good. The imaging was better than anything I had owned and especially better than anything the HTIB setup was capable of. The overall physical quality of the speaker construction was very impressive.

That’s about all the good however. My greatest annoyance is how stellar the imaging and sound quality is a relatively low volumes, and then how quickly it diminishes as I turn it up. What starts out as detailed music with "space" between the vocals and instruments quickly sounds strained and harsh when the volume is turned up past 45ish (the Sony's volume is from 0-73 I believe). Now before my fellow Axiomites get up in arms about my review/questions, let state that I do not believe it is the speakers fault. I say this because when I listened to my buddy's M-60s he received for Christmas, his didn't sound "strained" until much higher volumes. I believe the main difference was he was powering his speakers with a half-way decent Yamaha and I'm using a Sony meant to drive 2 pound 1-way plastic cubes. My friend also used a larger JBL powered sub, while I'm using the plastic HTIB Sony unit.

Now I don't think the volume levels I'm after are unrealistic or excessive. I just want drums to be as loud as if a real kit was in the room. I want guitar to sound like a Les Paul is plugged up to a Marshall amp right here. Right now all I can get is a muted toned down version of the same thing, and while it sounds great at those volumes, I'm not satisfied with it.

My Proposed Solutions:

It seems to me that my receiver simply doesn't have any oomph whatsoever. It actually sounds half way decent at the beginning of a song when the music is simple. For example just an acoustic guitar and a drum kit or vocal. As soon as the music complexity increases, all the space in the music goes away and it sounds like its coming from a loud boom box. I've searching for better amplification and at the top of my list is the HK avr-7300 and the upcoming Emotiva ULs.

The second fix seems to be my terrible little sub. If I set the M-60's to Large they sound better. They simply play tighter cleaner bass. Unfortunately this also causes the volume where straining occurs to happen at a lower db level. If I set the M-60's to Small, the M-60's sound better to a higher level as the amp seems less strained, but the bass is bloated, undetailed, and boomy/buzzy coming from the little Sony cube. I've been looking at all types of subs and my leading contenders are the EP-500, the UFW-12 with their R-DES package, and maybe even the twin UFW-10 package.

I really believe that with proper amplification and a great sub, everything will sound 100 times better and up to and past volumes I'd like. I'm just searching for opinions/reviews on some of the gear I'm looking at and other suggestions to fix the problems I'm hearing. Thanks in advance!

Kaylin R.

I hope I am the first to say that you can't go wrong with a H/K 7300 or an EP500 sub. The 7300 can be bought here refurbed for a very nice price.

You don't list a receiver model, but it may not have enough juice for even the very efficient M60s. The 60's have a very neutral sound and will sound great from low to high volume.

My son has a "Sony dream machine" and I think it has just enough power for the cubes. It works great for his room.

Look for features you like in a receiver. There are plenty of models in the $500 plus range that will drive the 60s.

There may be some UFW-10 users on this forum. There are a lot of EP500 and 600 reviews. The UFW-12 twins are on sale right now. I think Craigsub has a pair. At that price, you should look at the EP600 as well. All of these are great sub choices.

Rumor has it that less expensive receivers and amplifiers use a different curve than more expensive stuff when it comes to volume controls.

It is said that on the lesser models, a small turn of the loud dial produces a lot of volume early in the knobs travel to give the impression of greater overall volume.

"Wow!! I've only got it turned up a little bit, and see how loud it is!!

You may be getting all of the quality amplification that the amp has to offer in the first 50% of travel, and distortion and clipping in the rest!!

Caution may be required while operating in the upper realms!





......that is, until you get your new amp!!!

It definitely sounds as though your current receiver isn't up to the task. The same could be said about your sub. You seem to be on the right track as far as replacements are concerned.

I'm on the waiting list for the Emotiva ULs, and since they have not been released yet, few facts are actually known. However, they did go through a public beta test, during which they received strong praise for their quality of sound. Once the beta testing was finished, all units were recalled, and many features were added to the design. If you've been following things at av123, I'm sure you're aware of all this. For their price, they appear to be an excellent bargain.

As for subwoofers, I've owned a UFW-10, and now own the EP500. While the UFW-10 is a tight, quick performer and is perfect for music, IMHO, it can't match the EP500 in depth and smoothness of frequency response. I heard a pair of UFW-12s at the home of the aforementioned Craigsub, and was very impressed by the same qualities of the UFW-10, with a bit more depth in frequency response. But, even av123 itself admits it is not going to give you that room shaking bottom end with movies, should that be what you are looking for.

The "wild card" with the UFW-12 is the R-DES unit. For any who are unaware, this is the Rocket Digital Equalization System, which is a subwoofer equalizer similar to the Velodyne SMS-1 which is getting so much "buzz" here (see Jakeman's thread), and on other forums. It is, as yet, unreleased as well. Actually, it was briefly released, but was quickly recalled and is undergoing upgrades. av123 has been VERY quiet about precisely what is being changed or added. So, off the forum, there has been much speculation about those changes. We know, for a certainty, that at least one more band of EQ has been added bringing the total to 5, versus Velodyne's 6, but little else seems to be known. Both the R-DES and Emotiva ULs are supposed to see the light of day sometime in the next 5 to 6 weeks. Only time will tell if that is an accurate estimate.

Truthfully, none of the three subwoofers could even closely be considered "bad," and I doubt you'd be disappointed with any of them. But, I am VERY content with my EP500, and plead guilty to being biased in it's favor. However, if you've perused my profile you're aware that, in addition to my Axiom bias, I have an av123 bias as well. Two excellent companies with exemplary customer service, and quality products. You are definitely in a win/win situation.

I put my vote in for HSU, subwise.

All this wonderful Video/Audio stuff, does cost some serious dough. The Axiom speakers which do take some duckets to get them to your door, are a fantasic bargain in the speaker world. I am throughly impressed with the sound and imaging! You do need clean power to drive all high performance speakers, it does make a difference! I did alot of reading and research and landed on the Denon AVR 3805, a very nice Amp/Receiver for $679 plus the shipping. I bought mine brand new from a good seller on Ebay, total was $715.00 delivered. Very nice heart of your set-up, which I thought was a bargain at the price.

Good Luck and enjoy!

Good thing you bought your Denon from an unathorized ebay dealer, since it has been brought to my attention that a Denon warranty isn't worth the paper it's not written on. As for me, I'm through with Denon. A company that won't honor their warrantees doesn't get my business. I'm kind of stubborn that way.

Ok, after a week or so of pondering all my options, I'm about to pull the trigger on an Emotiva MPS-1 amp and LMC-1 pre pro. They costs enough that I won't be able to pull off a sub upgrade for awhile, but I think I'll be able to fend off AVR upgraditus for quite some time. I'm largely acting off the assumption that good clean power is something that will always be good and worth the money spent on it. Ten years from now, a 200 watt per channel amp should still a formative piece of equipment, and I can just upgrade processors as need be.

Today, and only today, I can get the 5ch amp and pre pro for $1800. That sure seems like a good deal. Any objections, comments, better ideas? Speak now or forever hold you peace!

I think your Emotivas will be a good buy. The MPS-1 is a very nice monoblock in chassis design. Congrats!

I went ahead and pulled the trigger. Cost to my door for the combo was 1728. The only problem is I have to wait until the processor is released to get it. The amp will be here friday, the processor March ish.