Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners Best AVReceiver under 1000$? consideration withn

I know some are thinking "here we go again", another n00b w/ the SAME questions, sorry for that.

Anyway here are a few i am considering, fwiw

Yamaha RX-V2600
Denon AVR-3806
Pioneer VSX74TXVI

I am looking for up to date connectivity, HDMI yada yada ... for use with a RPTV, and "hopefully" Axiom 60's, qs6's, ep500, and the 150. From my initial research the Pioneer is the most modern and feature rich, from what I can tell. I have seen "when people have a "siggy" of what components the have, that many have the denon 3806, is it getting dated?

a question along the same lines, I have a yammy v2500 it has no HDMI inputs, getting the OPPO DVD player w/ DVI to HDMI connection that i most certainly want to take advantage of. SO... is it "preferable" to run ALL connections through the receiver? or video HDMI direct to tv, with only optical audio going through the receiver?

anyone own one of these, or just have an opinion? I'd love your suggestions and or thoughts. I ask here first as I have come to like this place and the straight up responses that are mostly given TIA
Peace,
Stone__Man

I'm not sure you can say any of these receivers is better than the other, I personally prefer Denon, you can't lose with any of them so Imho go with the features you like.

On a side note, I happened to be in Laughlin Nevada over the weekend and I saw you avatar on the front of the Edgewater Hotel

really? lol I should have liked to have seen that . interesting.

I like yours better LINK

Stoney, you have a fine list(and a fine receiver presently), but should probably add for consideration the Denon 2807 , just out, which is(will be)available around $900.

I just bought the Onkyo because I thought that it was the best and have been extremely satisified.

I have a strong opinion that you should NOT run your video through your receiver unless you have video cable and switching issues of an overhead projector. Let the audio gear do audio things, and let your video gear do video things. There have been multiple reports of HDMI issues with audio gear doing the switching/ etc.

One of the reasons that I bought the 703 was that it did NOT have HDMI/ DVI switching.

I want to join in support of Onkyo 703. Unbelievable price, around $550 for the quality and a set of features one can find only in much more expensive receivers. Going go 803 will bring just a little bit of extra power and switchable HDMI. I didn't want it.

i almost bought the boston aucustics. it looks too good to believe. very impressive on paper. not too sure about its longevity though, as it is a new model line. very impressive specs though.......and heavy....which usually means great amps.

You may want to consider the Outlaw 1070 receiver. It has DVI switching and gets great reviews. I have not heard it myself, but it comes from a company that, like Axiom, is internet-based and offers a 30 day home trial.

This was the same list I was down to a few months back. I finally settled on the Pioneer, I'd like to know when it can be had for under $1000

Overall I love the receiver and all the bells and whistles. I'm also of the mind to avoid AVR video switching if possible. My current TV has 2 HMDI and 2 components so I don't need to use the AVR. Only use the AVR for video switching if you lack enough inputs on your TV.

I especially like the conveinent Ipod interface and MCACC.

I'm currently using it with 2 M60s, a VP150s, 2 QS4s, and an SVS 25-31PCI.

The only download which I think other probably have is the MCACC speakers settings are universal across any memory slot you use. I'd like to have for instance a MCACC 1 for movies with fronts as small, MCACC 2 for 2 channel with fronts large, etc.

firstly thanks to all that have given their input , I do much appreciate it
I have never heard of this place but [ChicagoTC]it had the best price on all the models that I listed, anyone know anything about them? reputable or not?
http://www.drplasma.com/dr/cartid90779-EVEREST-97WAVRC726/ic-VSX74TXVI/itemdesc.html

about using the amp to connect all the video stuff. I had read its not the best way to go and a few of you seem to feel the same way. so the "up-conversion" that at least the yammy's provide is NOT a good thing for HDMI input? or does that go for ALL video input? I am "evaluating" the new JVC HD-56FH96 [just delivered today] and supposedly it scans and converts lesser input signals to 1080p <-- or maybe that should be 1080i. anywho, that was the reasoning for my question about the AVR upconverting input. I'm getting the OPPO DVD player, so its safe to assume the optimum connection would be the DVI out from the Oppo direct to HDMI in on the TV?

again thanks for any and all feedback. so I have a few more AVR's to look over. glad someone , had words about the Pioneer as it looks very good to me. as do the others. but . . . . with advice to NOT connect DVD and [future] satti dish to AVR, has got me wondering if I should worry about getting a different AVR at all. Afterall i have a [new unused] yammy rx-v2500[[it has no HDMI input/output.] so I should connect all video straight to TV and use optical to the AVR for audio?

more thoughts? thanks guys.
Stone__Man

Stoneman - Your stuff is already so much better than mine that I am probably not a credible source.

But, my opinion is, if I were you, I'd just keep the Yamaha, route the digital video directly to the TV, and get a nice, macro-capable Universal Remote (like the MX-700 or a Harmony or something) to make your switching easier. Unless you have I/O shortage problems on your TV or something. Seriously, the Yamaha is a good piece of equipment, and I just don't see how your quality of picture or quality of life is going to be meaningfully improved by the additional expense. You know, there is a difference between "converting" and "scaling", so just be sure you're getting what you think you're getting by spending all that time and money on cables to chase the 1's and 0's around.

Stone_man,

That is a great deal. When I was looking around a few months ago I couldn't find anything from an "authorized" dealer for under $1499. Luckily, I had a connection at abt electronics and got mine for $1150 out the door.

In regards to my authorized dealer comment from my research I don't think any internet dealers are authorized for Elite model AVRS.

Check this link on Pioneer's authorized dealer policy.
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/article/top/0,,2076_86556318,00.html

Also check this link for authorized AVR dealers
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/article/two/0,,2076_83644739_277297187,00.html

I don't see Dr. Plasma on the list. Take the authorized dealer as you will, but I don't think Pioneer will honor service w/o a fight if you buy unauthorized.

Be sure to note the difference between upconversion and upscaling. Upconversion will take component, hdmi, dvi, etc and output them all out a single hdmi.

Upscaling will take say a 480p signal and output it 1080i out via hdmi. I know the Yammy 2600 and the new Denon 2807 will do this. Neither the Pioneer you mentioned or Yammy 2500 can upscale.

Again, I didn't really need this feature as my Oppo, Xbox 360, and HD satellite are all connected via HDMI or component and my TV upscales everything to 1080p anyhow.

I have my OPPO's video connected directly to my Sony HDTV with the supplied DVI/HDMI cable. I don't know which TV you have, but all that I am aware of do their internal upconversion to whatever format they need. Once again, doing upconversion in an audio receiver makes no sense for me with any of the newer HDTVs.

Stone Man,
You may want to log on to Audioholics.com and read a post on the forum with regards to the RX-V2600.There seems to be a problem with many HD cable boxes that DO NOT send the signal thru the rec. This is NOT a problem with the rec.,but with the cable box. I just put a system together for a friend using the 2600 and I must say it is a very nice piece of equipment.I am running all the video to the HDTV so the switching issue is not a problem.Hope this helps.

interesting replies. thanks SO MUCH peeps

I THINK I have this straight , but still one thing eludes me wee brain hehe.

up-converting is basically taking all video input of whatever source and outputting it via [1]HDMI to TV ( or component if that is the "best" out connection the receiver has?) like the v2500 has no HDMI so it would take all connections and output to TV via ONE component connect?

upscaling is the receiver changing the input to a higher standard? say 480p to 1080P? I assume that this is where the problems lie with connecting video sources via AVR? that the AVR just does not do a good job of it?

sorry for still wanting to be clear but...

I guess my next question would be why on earth would I want to upgrade to ANY of the AVR's I have listed? After reading these replies...what would be my gain? as the v2500 from what I have read is a solid AVR, AND it already paid for lol ....and the OPPO [presumably does a good job upscaling of the source to 1080i]

if a A.S.S.U.M.E. correctly , who are these AVR makers targeting to "upgrade" to their products with the HDMI in/out puts? especially when they don't appear to do a good job of it.

again I thank u all that have replied and that will reply.
Peace,
Stone__Man

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if a A.S.S.U.M.E. correctly , who are these AVR makers targeting to "upgrade" to their products with the HDMI in/out puts? especially when they don't appear to do a good job of it.

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Easy. People with upgraditis. There are a lot of people that automatically think that newer = better. I don't buy into the hype of DVI and HDMI. I still think that component video is the best way to go (especially with front mounted projectors). If you have your DVD player sitting under your big-screen TV and the HDMI or DVI cable only has to travel a few feet then it will provide for a cleaner install but I don't think it necessarily provides better quality.

I like the idea of those who say, let the receiver handle audio switching and let the video equipment handle video switching. I think it cleans up the signals and the electronic topologies.

thanks for reply BruceH, so i ASSUME that u think I should stay with the v2500? lol

may i ask how on earth do u do the [in reply to:] stuff? I have used other kinds of forums that have a "quote" tab to hit to do that, but for the life of me I can't figure it out on this forum. [using Firefox btw] thanks

I think you've answered your own questions. If you have v2500 and don't need the video switching I don't think there is any reason to upgrade.

You have it right with the upconversion/upscaling thing. But I think the issue is more with HDMI versions and handshakes between the devices. Whether you're upconverting or upscaling I believe the same issues are present.

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may i ask how on earth do u do the [in reply to:] stuff? I have used other kinds of forums that have a "quote" tab to hit to do that,

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(quote) text (/quote) with these [ ] instead of )

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Thx HomeDad

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I still think that component video is the best way to go

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I agree.

DVD direct to SXRD with great picture.

Keep the 2500!

If you just want horizontal lines, you can use [ /quote] all by itself.

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like

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this

Stone: I dare say that most people who purcahse audio equipment are not scientists or engineers and, most probably, know absolutely nothing about electronics.

They are easily lead to buy something that they don't need and, in a double blind test, could not tell the difference with.

Sorry, sad, but true.

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Stone: I dare say that most people who purcahse audio equipment are not scientists or engineers and, most probably, know absolutely nothing about electronics.

They are easily lead to buy something that they don't need and, in a double blind test, could not tell the difference with.

Sorry, sad, but true.

The Rat.

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part of me thinks you are replying in agreement with me about the " who are they trying to market to" while another part is not so sure. can u clarify as to what u refer to?

They are marketing to a very uneducated public that doesn't know or understand the difference.

That's my point.

I would have to agree to route directly from you DVD to your TV, doesn't make sense to me to add more cables and connections if they are not needed.

Dad: I think that it is more profound than that. Why do video operations in your audio receiver IF YOU DON'T HAVE TO?

Just doesn't make sense with all the excellent HDTVs out there!!!!!!

So you don't have to change 50 inputs on 50 devices? I really don't understand your militancy, especially if you're talking digital signal... which, granted, has extra bits on for DRM, etc. And what exactly makes you think that an Audio/Video receiver is not just that? Why is the processing in an Audio/Video receiver necessarily worse than that in a TV?

Mabey you guys can correct my whole understanding of this upconversion.
My guess is you would only need to upconvert through your receiver if your DVD player is older and only supports composite or S-Video. Now depending on your TV's native resolution it would be useless to upconvert to 720p or 1080i if you TV only displays 480.
My Toshiba Plasma has a true HD picture at 720p, my Denon 3910 can upconvert to 720p or 1080, should I leave the DVD player at 720p, I'm thinking if I put it at 1080 the TV will just downconvert it back to 720 which will probably degrade the picture overall. the same goes for my Xbox-360.
This is just my understanding, please correct me if I'm wrong.

Upconvert changes composite to s-video to component/hdmi/dvi depending on pre/pro or receiver.

Upscaling changes resolution from 480i to 480p or 720p or 1080i or 1080p. This is done in newer tvs and newest receivers.

The only problem with no connection from receiver to tv is no onscreen display. Little lines on the pre/pro is all you get. Some have corrected this problem by adding a small tv to get a pre/pro feed.

Typically people upconvert composite or s-video connections on an AVR to allow those older sources to input to TV at HDMI/DVI.

Upscaling is typically used to convert older 480i/480p sources to a 1080i/1080p capable TV.

Most current HD TVs will upscale internally all sources to it's highest output anyhow.

Granted, I could be completely wrong here but this is what I've learned over the past year or so.

I think we said the same thing!

Michael, as the other replies have indicated, different types of so-called "converting" should be kept separate. Transcoding in a receiver allows composite and/or S-video inputs to be put into a form where they can all be output from the receiver's component output cables, instead of having to use different types of output cables. This doesn't make the composite or S-video input equal in quality to a component video input, it just makes it convenient to use just the component cables.

The scaling and deinterlacing of 480i material(DVDs, SDTV)to fit your 720p TV has to be done by the set itself if it hasn't been done earlier by a player, receiver or a separate unit. What's best depends on which of these does the best deinterlacing from i to p, or scaling from 480 to 720. You're right, there'd be no purpose in setting your player to 1080, since the TV would have to scale it back down to 720. You should experiment to see if setting the player at 480i or 480p instead of 720p would give you a better picture. This would have the TV rather than the player doing the deinterlacing and/or scaling.

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You should experiment to see if setting the player at 480i or 480p instead of 720p would give you a better picture.

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That's a great idea, I'll try that to see if I notice any difference.

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That's a great idea, I'll try that to see if I notice any difference.

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Make sure you do a double blind test! you want those results to be accurate!

Bug: just connect your receiver's video output to a different TV input. That is the way I can get on screen menus from the receiver to the TV. I use an S-Video input because high resolution is not an issue.

My Sony has a total of 8 video inputs. Four HDMI/DVI and/ or component inputs should be enough for most people. If you (reference the 50 video) really need more than 6-8 inputs, maybe you should get a video switcher.

My OPPO will send a 720P video signal. I have tried it both with the 720P and the 480P. I don't see any difference, but that is just me.

I couldn't really notice any difference switching between 480,720 and 1080, but again my eyesight is not as sharp as it was when I was younger.

I think that everything washes out when my Sony converts from whatever to 1080P.

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I think that everything washes out when my Sony converts from whatever to 1080P.

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So how do you resolve it?

this has been AWESOME feedback from all of you THANKS. I now have a MUCH better understanding of "upconverting" and "upscaling" and the diff between them. most helpfully with that said :

I have decided to stay with the yammy v2500 , and connect the Oppp DVD direct to HDMI input on the RPTV [it has 2 HDMI ports]. I assume that since the Oppo is putting out 1080i that its much easier on the RPTV(native 1080p) to upSCALE <-- hehe

please correct if I am thinkin' wrong. Thanks again to all that have replied, directly and indirectly

Maybe I should have said that it doesn't make any difference. Once your HDTV has to do a conversion, of any sort, it probably doesn't matter especially if the source is not high definition, anyway.

Stoney, you've sort of got the right idea, except that if the player sends a 1080i signal to the set, that means that the player has already done the scaling from 480 to 1080, so the set doesn't need to scale(the set's scaling may be better, worse or about the same as what the player does). What the set still has to do is deinterlace the i to p so that it can be shown on the 1080p display.

the "research" hehe READING never ends for me it seems..
First RatPack, that onkyo 703 looks like it would handle the Axioms well(as far as ohm rating anyway). As the m80's are 4ohm and the 150 and qm8's are 6 ohm, I'm interesting about what they call "dynamic power". I assume it has simple setting for different ohm speakers being used, and not have to have ONE ohm setting for ALL speakers?? Do u use a seperate amp in your setup or just drive all speakers with the Onkyo?

now with my rx-v2500, I must admit I am 'torn', its still new in the box and should n't be TOO hard to sell if need be. My question is STILL the same really , can it drive these different ohm Axioms to sound their best? Unlike the Onkyo (which apparently has setting for 8,6,4 ohm speakers) the Yammy says nothing about 4 ohm speakers, it does however mention a switch from 8 to 6 ohm. And through all my 'research' I get info, some that the yammy will drive the different ohm speakers, and some that say it wont ( or will give "not so great" performance with speakers other than 8 ohm'erz) so I'd really like to get this cleared up, as I'm getting WAY ANTZ-E about ordering my Axioms, but want to know that I am matching up components the best I can before i can order.

a refresher : I have
unopened yammy rx-v2500 rec.
jvc HD-56FH96 rptv
OPPO DVD

my Axiom considerations are thus:
Mains: 60 or 80
center: 150
surround: qs8
sub: 500 (or HSU VTF-3 mkII, as I'm still not convinced the 500 is 500$'s better the the HSU)

I appreciate ALL replies

Good Morning Stone:

I do not have any problem driving my M80s, VP-150 and QS8s with my Onkyo 703. That was somewhat of a surprise because I was anticipating problems with the M80s. But, I was planning on buying a seperate amp so it was not going to be an issue anyway. I still am planning on buying the amp, not because I think that I really need it, but because I want one.

I sit about 12-13 feet from the M80s and have measured a sound level of over 95 dB. That was way too loud and I could not stand it very long.

Maybe this answers you on the "dynamic power," maybe not. If it does not, maybe you could ask the question a little different.

I think that most people will tell you not to change the load setting from 8 ohms. I have not changed mine. It is set for 8 ohms for all my speakers. I have seen Alan post several times not to change the speaker load setting. I think that all it does is limit the output current of your receiver.

I did a lot of research on subwoofers before I bought the SVS. SVS seemed like it was the best value, all things considered. The Axiom subs were never in the running, in my mind, even though they have received a lot of excellent press and awards since. I have been very pleased with my SVS. I don't think that you would go wrong with a SVS or an Axiom for that matter.

Hope that this helps!

This link explains the issues the yammy RX-V2500 has with 4ohm speakers

thanks u guys, I copied the reccomedation from that review

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Recommendations

The Yamaha RX-V2500 has respectable amplifier performance for a receiver in its price class and should serve most home theater environments quite well. I advise against using low efficient 4 ohm speakers in environments where you like to play your music loudly and your room dimensions exceed 2000 ft^3. For best results, my advice is to use reasonably efficient (88dB or higher) 6-8 ohm speakers (4 ohm may be used if their efficiency is 90dB or greater and you provide adequate ventilation) and apply bass management to all channels and route the power hungry bass information to a dedicated subwoofer or two. If you find you need more power in the future, simply preamp out to a dedicated amp and you have yourself a great processor with all the latest surround formats on board.

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I'm not that techically savvy, but reading through the whole of that page, i gathered he was trying to see just how much abuse it would take at very high SPL levels. I like music and movies loud at times but not ear bleedingly so <--- is that a word lol , back to what was said, I will indeed use a sub, not sure which one yet but a sub none the less. Its mentioned that doing that takes a fair amount of load of the receiver. Also it mentions the if the 4 ohm speaker is "efficient" enough it alright, does the m80 fall at or above this 90db or greater? I see the SPL is above 90 for the m80's but me wee brain is not sure those are the numbers that are meant by "efficient" db rating. Forgive my ignorance in this matter,, and remember I ask these questions to make the most informed expenditure of $$$$ that I can.
Just found the info on the amp they have here at the BX , its a Kenwood KMF-X9000, its a 2 channel amp at 130watts or 145 watts a channel(read conflicting #'s on it OH< and its at SIX 6 ohm), 350$ ... could this be the answer to my worries about the yammy not being able to, hehe as I say, "optimally" drive the m80's . anyone know is this kmf-x9000 any good? its thx cert. for what thats worth. I'm not asking if its the best or on keel with a rotel, but will it do the job I need done. From the little info I see on it I believe its an old model. Again appreciate ALL replies.

I don't preview of spell check so don't complain about "me" poor grahamher.

left me spehln airoors, but forgot to add that its watts per channedl is at 6 ohm. not 8. will this work for the 80's, why can't this sh!t just be easy for me. nooooo ... lol

Yes the M80s do fall in the range of high a efficient 4 ohm load with their 95db rating. They are also an easy 4 ohm speaker not dipping below their 4 ohm rating.

What I would do is get the M80s, if that is what you want, try them out with the Yamaha and see if it has any trouble pushing them. If you make sure to have enough breathing room around the receiver my bet is it will do a good job for your needs.

I'd agree with Rick.

This Onkyo M-282 is generally considered a pretty good value for external amplification if you need it.

thanks wid & tom, I'll have a look at the onkyo amp

I guess I need to research the whole OHM situation as that onkyo is 100 watt at 8 ohm while the kenwood kmf-x9000 is 130 watt at 6 ohm. yet another thing to confuse me n00b wee brain. anyone else wanna chime in? feel free

The Kenwood seems to be a very capable European model. I don't see any reason why it would not work for you.

The Onkyo is rated 125W@6ohms, so you should not be able to perceive any meaningful difference in SPL between the two.

Honestly, I don't think your Yamaha is going to have trouble driving the M80's. If it does, you could shop either one of these amps on price and feel comfortable. But that's just my opinion.

I'll leave the EE's to explain Ohm's law.

Onkyo 282 - $209

found a bit of "ohm" info here http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/buyingguides/avhardware/receivers.php#impedance_selector

scroll down to
What Doesn't Matter?
Impedance Selector Switches

hope this may aid some others of you , that sail in the same boat as me.

..... so, beside my concerns of this and that, i have been compounding my own frustration with the fact that , the more I learn , it seems the more money I'm gonna be spending. THERE IN LIES THE PROBLEM. what was initially a 1600$ output is now looking more like 2700$ and with that being said, **the big things with me are getting the most for my $$$ and making informed purchase decisions.** as it now looks I have much more reading and question asking to do here and there, cause at nearly 3000$ I would be foolish to not look at other setups that will compare with the axioms. Believe it or not although this is the axiom forum I believe I can get honest answers and reccomendations here, thats why I ask.
Looks like a new thead in my future.

Can you break that down for us? And what were you originally looking at before the M80 maniacs got to you?

break down what exactly?

originally when I read about axioms at audioholics it was from there 5000$ HT system, then looking at axiom page the the epic grand master 175 was what I was looking at initially, then as I read and from what others said , I increasingly wanted MORE. then I was up to m22's vp150 qs8's and the ep350 and what i am looking at now the epic 80-500 its gonna run me JUST shy of 3000$.

so the higher the dollar amount has made me HAVE to look into all my options, just as anyone would do i should think, with spending this much money. afterall if your in the market for a 450$ set of speaker and then increase what your are gonna spend to 950$ speakers u have ALOT more to consider for purchase.

It is somewhat overwhelming. At times to the point I feel like I'm chasing my own tail, and getting NOwhere. Mind u I feel I am learning from the wisdom shared by others, don't get me wrong there. I appeciate all input from EVERYone. I hope that has "broken" it down a bit. Does my frustration show? I at times wanna just say F**K IT! and live with the setup I have now.

That being said , here is an example of what I mean about more choices ,the PBS Image 65T "command performance system" is one of these considerations that at $2995 needs to be researched. see now it was NOT an option when I was only gonna spend nearer 2000$ than 3000$.

OK, you're letting the mentality of certain people around here get to you. You do NOT necessarily need MORE MORE MORE MORE MORE MORE. Look at your room size. Look at your budget. If you get 8 ohm speakers, surprise, you won't need to spend so much on amplification. If you buy in pieces, you'll be able to afford it better. Maybe you stick with the M22s; they're excellent speakers. Maybe you get a Hsu or SVS instead of the 350 or the 500.

People seem to naturally gravitate towards advising other people to get what they have. Yes, the 80s are fantastic. Yes, the 500 is fantastic. But can you upgrade to those items later? Can you really afford them now? I certainly couldn't. I'm very happy with my M50s, and my old Cambridge Soundworks sub. Would I be happier with 80s and a 500? Probably, but...

kcarlile is right.

If you want to stay in a budget for a room size, then go with the "HT Wizard" above. You'll get a good recommendation for your room size and budget.

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OK, you're letting the mentality of certain people around here get to you. You do NOT necessarily need MORE MORE MORE MORE MORE MORE.

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The only referances I see about this is from answering questions that Stoney has asked. I believe he was the one asking the questions about the Yamaha and the M80s. Would it have been better to just ignore the questions when asked?

All I'm saying is that there seems to be an attitude that everyone needs M80s. Not everyone needs M80s. And granted, I had not read the thread; just responding to the desperation in Stoney's post and the general feel I've gotten lately. I don't think it's better to ignore the questions, but when someone shows up talking about M22s, why do we necessarily steer them towards something else?

I don't think we need to steer anyone anywhere. Maybe I read it wrong but it seems to me it was the op asking about going from M22s to the M60s to the M80s.

I really don't care what anyone buys, I don't have a dog in this fight. Hell I don't care if they buy another brand.

I too see he is getting confused but I also see it is he that is asking the questions. No one is pushing anything on him.

If it were me and I had the Yamaha and was not sure about what to buy I would more than likely play it safe and go with an 8 ohm speaker.

Things are getting a bit confusing, Imho you can't make a bad choice, stay within your planned budget and you will probably be the most satisfied.

I reread the thread, but I need to start over.

How big is your room again?

For the vast majority of people, M60's and a decent sub (EP350, STF-3, SVS PB-12, etc.) are going to fill a very large room with very nice sounds. If you have a huge room OR you like everything really loud all the time OR you just have a terminal case of upgradeitis, you can start out "bigger" if your budget allows.

My listening suggests that whatever Axiom product you will buy will be very satisfying. Stop worrying about ohms. That measurement is very likely to not matter a whit.

I was in your shoes a couple years ago (except without the Yamaha 2500) and decided to go with M60's, QS8's, a VP100 and a good $700 subwoofer. I am extremely satisfied.

I don't think anybody was trying to get you to buy the 80's except you, and I also think Ken is right. We all "want" the biggest and best one, but you deprive yourself of many moments of joy by not only delaying the purchase but also by agonizing over it in the process.

btw, I've heard some PSB speakers (although not the ones you mention) and my opinion is that they were not as vibrant and detailed as similar Axiom models.

Not trying to cause problems but I think the voices in my head are telling me that Kenwood isn't a very good buy. In fact I think it's an "Alanism".

If I'm wrong humble apolgies to all concerned.

Ford: I think that you are correct about Alan saying that he did not recommend Kenwood. Matter of fact, I think that he may have said that to me about my old Kenwood. But, I'll tell you, my old Kenwood didn't have any problem driving my M80s. Of course, I don't listen to them at very loud levels so any receiver may have been OK.

Wid: I have to agree with you about not trying to sell anything.

I think that stone may be caught going in a circle. That circle is how good is good enough? And, how big a budget do I really have? Can I spare a few more $$$? And, am I likely to get upgraditis in a year, or two, or three.

I tell you those can be devistating questions that drive a fella crazy. I know, I've been there!!!!

Stoney, as was said three weeks ago, your present receiver is fine; there doesn't appear to be a compelling reason to make a change. The very title of the thread isn't realistic as there's no such thing as a "best" receiver under $1,000 or at any other price. If your budget for speakers was $1,600, then that's probably what you should still spend. There's little or no correlation between price and sound quality in audio.

OK, I had misrememberd this thread. My apologies. Stone, my initial advice still stands. Don't get caught in that circle of upgraditis--it's just going to make you extraordinarily frustrated. Trust me, I know. Set your limits, stick to 'em.

To all
where do I start?

A disclaimer I guess, I AM NOT pointing fingers at anyone offering their opinion, good, bad, or otherwise. As I always say I appreciate ALL replies, I honestly do. So, it is NOONES fault but mine , this situation I find myself stuck in. As I have read other threads and asked my own questions, I have gained some knowledge (from not just here, all over the internet) ALL because of others replies. I try to weigh all info as best I can, One main thing I take into account is what setup the person has themselves, or past experience with items in question. As it is human nature to support/defend one's one decisions and therefore declare what THEY have as the best choice. But, at the same time those that have the components I'd like opinions on, I feel there are no better people to get opinions/thoughts from, than those that have it.

I may not have anywhere near the knowledge of alot of others, but I am not a stupid man either. One thing I do know well is people. I ask opinions & I get them, that is what *I* ask for. It just so happens as this shopping/quest for knowledge process has gone on I have found myself feeling overwhelmed by all the choices, again I blame NOONE, I want that to be clear. Please don't stop giving replies to ANYone's querries.

the $$$ increase has two main factors, my desire to NOT go through this process for a VERY long time, so therefore I want the best I can get. Secondly, WAF , I in my persuasive way, I have worked her acceptance of my system desires up to a 3000$ level.(tax return helped majorly in that area )

I want the absolute best/most system I can get for my 3000$ spent on speaker system and amplification if need be.I want to make the most informed decision I can as to what to go with. That is the bottom line making the best decision on a system that is getting the most for the $$$ spent. I gather info , as I said, ALL over the place. The one thing I don't think there is NEAR enough of is PROFESSIONAL comparo's of systems that are in the same price range. Subs are a great example , why is it that noone seems to question when they are compared and are not even near the others in price. would not the average person think a 1200 sub SHOULD sound better than one that cost 700$? I should think so, BUT, as bears out alot of the time. more expensive is NOT always better. I LOVE to find UNBIAS reivews and opinions. but they seem few and far between, from what I have seen online.

As it stands now I am VERY VERY frustrated, with the fact that the more knowledge I gain the harder decision making has become. Finding out about this maker or that maker's system that I had no knowledge of, compounds this frustration. The fact that I am here AT ALL should tell u all something. I want to get the best system my money can afford me. Case in point, a short time ago I would have guessed Axiom to be the latest compact car by Ford or some such. lol. Now that I have most of my "other" component questions settled --> gonna stick with the paid for yammy rx-v2500, and add amplification if need be.

So now I have to determine just what speaker system is gonna give me the very best for 3000$. I feel good about my decision to keep the yammy and the other system question I have had answered, but as I know myself, the row I am gonna have to hoe, is gonna be a rocky one, with deciding on what speaker setup to buy. I am frustrated and at time wanna just say F**K IT all and stick with my yammy YSP-1 & YST-SW515 that I have now, but . . . alas . . . I am determined to have that kick ass setup I have wanted all my life. Honestly I didn't foresee this being as frustrating as it has become.

I still feel I may have to start a new thread about a 3000$ system, It will be interesting to see what kind of replies I get. I wont go into a lot of the details I have in this thread, as I expect that alot of replies given will be by those that have answered my other questions or at least put forth the effort to try to help another.

Lastly I feel I will get honest (although sometimes bias) opinions here on the Axiom fourm, that is expected and respected, by me. As I always say, please feel free to reply good , bad or otherwise, any and ALL input is very much appreciated by me.
Peace,
Stone__Man

Stone__Man, Imho you are doing it the right way, there are alot of choices out there, and as many opinions. Doing as much research and auditioning as you can will only make your final decision more enjoyable, and less costly in the long run. Good Luck

Stone, don't feel frustrated!!! Some people think that half the enjoyment/ fun of a new HT system is shopping for it. I have done a lot of research over the past year and a half as I upgraded my HT system. Still doing it as I consider a seperate amp. At times, I suppose it was a little frustrating as I couldn't determine differences in the gear specs. But, looking back on it, I did learn a lot and I think that I did have fun doing it!!!!

Best of luck in your choice, whatever it may be.

Stone,

I feel your pain. Lot’s to learn and the more you learn, the more you spend. I think I’m about 15k into audio/video gear now. Plus the other 10k in the theater room I’m building. That money “was” my down payment for a 07 Z06 vette that will have to wait another year.

Don’t know if I replied to this or not. Don’t really feel inclined to read eight pages to refresh my memory either……..

I’ve got a set of M80’s, and a set of M22’s. – and several other pairs of speakers, both Axiom and other.

First off, I would recommend that you buy a tower speaker for mains. I don’t give a rat’s ass what anyone else says, the little bookshelves don’t compare even when they are paired with a sub. That’s hogwash when people say they do and a way to make YOU feel better about saving a few bucks. The towers just flat out have more…..more everything. The size of those towers also makes a difference. I’ve screwed around with all my speakers, back to back testing/listening, comparing sound and spl, and all that crap. All that being said, I do not think you NEED the M80’s. You will NOT EVER pin the volume with them. Just get the 60’s and don’t give it another thought.

I don’t have, nor have I heard any Axiom sub but the two EP’s. Can’t comment on the smaller subs other than what I’ve read here. And from what I’ve read, if you insist on buying an Axiom sub, go for one of the EP’s. If they are too much, look to SVS, HSU or Outaw and you will get a better sub for the money. – that’s not my opinion, but what I’ve read enough times one this board to build a pretty good conclusion. I will say that the two EP’s are amazing subs though. The 600 is so incredible huge in sound, but at the same time smooth and accurate. I love mine. The 500 was great too, but not like the 600.

That 2500 AVR is an excellent AVR. I’d have bought one but Alan (and Axiom tech) has always been very upfront about Yamaha and 4 ohm loads. I have the 80’s, so Yamaha got cut from my list. If I had the M60’s, different story. I’d probably have a Yamaha. They really are a great AVR.

In reply to:

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I don’t give a rat’s ass what anyone else says, the little bookshelves don’t compare even when they are paired with a sub. That’s hogwash when people say they do and a way to make YOU feel better about saving a few bucks.

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So Alan is a liar then, huh? Go figure.

In reply to:

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That money “was” my down payment for a 07 Z06 vette that will have to wait another year.

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Man you must love yor music

Yes, I think I do. There's always next year. Plus I still have to finish the 62'.

Peter, no I didn't. If you read what Alan says closely, you will see that. He never comes right out and says bookshelves are on pair with towers. Only at low volume levels does he come close to making that claim. And Alan and I have different ideas of what low is. My low is 80 db's.

My low is 80 db's

See.

There ya go...pushing the damned 80s once again. Mike you should be ashamed.

Once again??

All the time bud……..

I like to ‘feel’ the music, not just hear it.

I guess that there are 80s and then there are 80s.

LOL!!!