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#144019 - 07/23/06 07:26 PM Yamaha RX-V2600-Denon 2807
osvijazz Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 05/21/06
Posts: 20
Loc: Gurabo, Puerto Rico
Hi everyone. Thanks to all the people who responded to my last post " M60's owners...what receiver/amp do you have?". I went to pick up a Denon 2807, I liked the reviews and the ipod capability but when I got to the store I also asked about the Yamaha 2600 and the salesman just smiled at me. Well, they had both receivers side by side, perfect for a comparison. To my ears and to my taste the Yamaha just sounded better. Vocals were very present, the Denon kinda burried them a little. Soundstage is huge and very detailed. The Yamaha just sounded better overall imo so that's what i got. So again, thanks for your input.

osvi
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osvi

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#144020 - 07/24/06 12:08 AM Re: Yamaha RX-V2600-Denon 2807 [Re: osvijazz]
JohnK Online   content
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10310
Osvaldo, enjoy. Those in-store comparisons aren't necessarily perfect(especially when the salesman smiles!)because small differences in adjustments can account for differences heard. Nevertheless you got an excellent receiver in the 2600; in case you didn't see it, the very good review and lab measurements that Sound&Vision did is found beginning here .
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#144021 - 07/24/06 04:45 AM Re: Yamaha RX-V2600-Denon 2807 [Re: osvijazz]
ElTorrente Offline
buff

Registered: 05/21/04
Posts: 54
I'm sure Denon or Yamaha would both sound great depending on how it was setup. I've had an RX-V2400 for a couple years and I love it. It has a lot power and all the bells and whistles you would need. I bought an Outlaw 1070 for my computer setup, and am currently listening to it, and the Yamaha is quite a bit more powerful. Well it SHOULD be, since it's rated much higher, but I assumed it would only actually put out about as much as the Outlaw (which doesn't overrate their amplifier power). I was pleasantly surprised to find my Yamaha putting out significantly more power.

It sounds clean and I have no complaints. I was thinking that I would like the Outlaw better and would replace the Yamaha with it, but after comparing the two I like the Yamaha a little better. Nothing wrong with the Outlaw, though- I guess I just don't have a need to mess with my HT setup since it's working so well right now and has plenty of power.

I got an ICBM bass manager from E-bay that is on the way, and will use this to hook-up my SACD player with, so I can keep everything analog. The Yamaha sounds beautiful on "multi channel input" while listening to SACDs, and also normal CDs sound great like this- but there is no bass management on analog, which is one thing the Outlaw does do.

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#144022 - 07/24/06 08:44 AM Re: Yamaha RX-V2600-Denon 2807 [Re: osvijazz]
MarkSJohnson Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10698
Loc: Central NH
Quote:

when I got to the store I also asked about the Yamaha 2600 and the salesman just smiled at me. Well, they had both receivers side by side, perfect for a comparison. To my ears and to my taste the Yamaha just sounded better.




I promise, I'm not looking to start trouble here, but have to ask:
Were both receivers set to "flat" in terms of bass, treble, EQ functions, and volume? It's so easy to have them set differently via some internal menu that I believe most receiver comparisons in a store are pointless. I could be wrong and I'm not trying to cast doubt on your purchase (I'm sure the Yamaha is a fine product and very well could be superior to the Denon...I don't know).

But it seems as though so many people do an A/B test of receivers or separates in a store, and I wonder how many reset them to absolute flat with all the menu settings. Hell I think my Denon 3805 offers a "direct" and a "pure direct" mode with the first still allowing some EQ changes. I could see someone coming in and the salesman saying "let's put them both in "Direct Mode" knowing full well that although one is now bypassing all the "modification possibilities" the other one still has some EQ of their choosing applied to skew the tests.

I've even heard people say that they've gone into a store to compare the sound of receivers and made their choice even though the receivers were hooked up to different speakers....sometimes in another room! This to me is ludicrous, because I don't think anyone would deny that the speakers and the room are going to have a much bigger impact on the sound than the receivers...even if there ARE differences in how receivers sound!

So how does one determine this in a showroom? Let's say you are a believer that electronics sound different or at least open to that possibility. Do you ask that each receiver have a factory reset then and there before the listening test?

I'm not sure if this might have been better if I started a new thread. It's in response to the OP, but I guess it's a bit of a hijack too!
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#144023 - 07/24/06 09:30 AM Re: Yamaha RX-V2600-Denon 2807 [Re: JohnK]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13311
Loc: Iowa
Osvaldo, I agree with John, I never trust those retail stores in regards to having things setup correctly. There is no way to tell if both receivers where setup and calibrated for best sound. Both models are great receivers, however, if both receivers were calibrated correctly, you would not hear much difference if any. The room characteristics play a more important role than the receiver and/or speakers you may be using. Also, I'm sure he was not using Axiom speakers either.

Congratulations on your purchase...
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M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
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#144024 - 07/24/06 10:25 AM Re: Yamaha RX-V2600-Denon 2807 [Re: SirQuack]
osvijazz Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 05/21/06
Posts: 20
Loc: Gurabo, Puerto Rico
I agree on most of the stuff being said here but maybe I should explain a little. This salesman I've known for a while. The comparison was in the same room with the same speakers and music that I brought and movies they had there. We even tested with different settings to see if we could match one receiver with the other. He even told me to bring my M60's and then choose. The salesperson is a Denon advocate but even he had to admit that the Yamaha sounded better. So my point is that even when I had decided I would get the Denon because it was cheaper and it had the ipod capability I couldn't ignore the fact that the Yamaha just sounded better and again, that is just my opinion. Also remember that this is only between these two receivers and it DOES NOT mean I'm saying that Yamaha is better than Denon but for my taste and maybe your's I would say that I liked the Yamaha over the Denon. Lastly, I'm no audiophile or expert but I do know how some electric and acoustic instruments should sound. I posted my experience so that anyone in the same situation can benefit from it. Thanks to all of you for the friendly discussion, I think it all helps other readers.

osvi
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osvi

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#144025 - 07/24/06 10:56 AM Re: Yamaha RX-V2600-Denon 2807 [Re: osvijazz]
michael_d Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3826
Loc: Up yonder
Yamaha owners absolutely LOVE their receivers. This has got to mean something. I have never heard one, but have eyeballed them many times. They (in my opinion) have more bells and whistles and functions than any other receiver on the market. I would have bought one myself, but they just don’t have the current that I wanted. In the future I think I will buy Yamaha and use it as a pre amp.

Good choice and congrats.
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#144026 - 07/24/06 11:26 AM Re: Yamaha RX-V2600-Denon 2807 [Re: osvijazz]
littleb Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 08/03/03
Posts: 1235
Loc: Moorhead, Minnesota/US
You did good.

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#144027 - 07/24/06 11:29 AM Re: Yamaha RX-V2600-Denon 2807 [Re: osvijazz]
MarkSJohnson Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10698
Loc: Central NH
Osvi-
Hopefully, I worded my post carefully enough for you to know I meant no disrepect, and certainly you didn't make a wrong decision. I'm not one of those people who think that the equipment I use must be best for everyone, I've never even heard a Yamaha and it very well might be better!

I guess I just questioned it because there are so often posts from people who are newbies to the whole thing and it's pretty obvious from their description of the dealer's visit that they were being taken for a ride. That doesn't appear to be the case at all here!

Plus, I really AM curious , from those who do believe that electronics sound different, how they A/B them in such a way as to cut out all the other variables?
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::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

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#144028 - 07/24/06 07:16 PM Re: Yamaha RX-V2600-Denon 2807 [Re: MarkSJohnson]
osvijazz Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 05/21/06
Posts: 20
Loc: Gurabo, Puerto Rico
MarkSJohnson-Everything has been well said so don't worry. I need to be especially carefull on my choice of words because I do know english but spanish is my language. But anyway, I always say "in my opinion" because it's really a matter of opinion. I really liked the sense of space and clearness plus the upfront vocal presentation of the Yamaha and maybe someone else likes the more focused darker laid back sound of the Denon. That's like saying a Fender Stratocaster is better than a Gibson Les Paul and vice versa...they are different, and they are both awesome. I do believe there was a pretty big difference in the sound of these two receivers. So all I hope is that this helps whoever is thinking about getting either brand. Thanks again!

osvi
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osvi

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