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#149600 - 10/17/06 11:03 PM EP600 vertical or horizontal config questions..
phoenixrae Offline
regular

Registered: 09/18/06
Posts: 5
Hello Everyone,

After months of research and recently just bought a 50" Sony RPTV. I am ready to plunge into getting an HT package from Axiom. I have the budget for M60*EP500, M80*EP500, or M60*EP600. For the three 3 configs mentioned I preferred the M60*EP600 to mate with the Denon4306 AV that I will be ordering. I have a family room that's approximately 4500 cubic feet that will be housing any one of the config.

My questions on the EP600 is that if I order it in "vertical" config, can I still use it horizontally? I know nothing will stop me from laying it down horizontally, but if I decided to placed it in the reverse orientation from what I order will it cause problem for me? I've read Alan Lofft's article "excavating deep bass" on EP500 and 600, but it doesn't explain about that flexibility in placement. It was a great article and no pundit intended Alan. You're probably wondering why go with the EP600 when EP500 is fine for that room size, it because (1)madam Boss authorized the purchase and it's probably my last purchase on speakers for awhile and (2) I like to listen to house, trance, techno, and every electronica bass produced music ever made by mankind.

Thanks in advance for any comments.
Cheers,
-Tony

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#149601 - 10/18/06 12:00 AM Re: EP600 vertical or horizontal config questions. [Re: phoenixrae]
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16258
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
As far as I know, the differences between the horizontal and vertical configurations of the EP600 are:

A. The placement of the logo on the grill
B. The location of the pre-drilled feet holes
C. The orientation of the amplifier

There's no reason you can't lay a vertically-configured EP600 on its side or stand a horizontally-configured EP500 on end, but naturally, they will look best in their as-configured orientations.
_________________________
"I wish I had documented moreÖ" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

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#149602 - 10/18/06 11:35 AM Re: EP600 vertical or horizontal config questions.. [Re: phoenixrae]
alan Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/29/02
Posts: 3186
Loc: Toronto/New York/Dwight
Hi phoenixrae,

Glad you liked the article. I should go back and update it where required. Pmbuko nicely covered the cosmetic/practical issues of vertical or horizontal placement of the EP600.

As to the effectiveness of vertical vs. horizontal placement of the EP600, in theory it shouldn't make any significant difference in pressurizing the room. That said, no room is identical and you may find you hear a difference with vertical vs. horizontal placement.

As to your proposed selection, I'd kinda like you to choose the M80s over the M60s, mainly because your room is really large and the M80s are just a teensy-weensy bit smoother through the midrange than the M60s, especially on vocals. We are talking tiny nuances that are only audible on immediate double-blind A/B comparisons, but since I just spent a week doing those at the Axiom plant, I can tell you that with confidence. The M80's dynamic capabilities at loud playback levels will also better match those of the EP600.

Either way, you're going to a have a dynamite system.
_________________________
Alan Lofft,
Axiom Resident Expert

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#149603 - 10/18/06 11:49 AM Re: EP600 vertical or horizontal config questions.. [Re: phoenixrae]
bugbitten Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 04/06/05
Posts: 2339
Loc: Madisonville, KY
Welcome phoenixrae!

You could order the 80s and 500 now and add a second 500 later. With the 500 you get 97-98% of deep bass. With the second 500 you get more room placement options.

I have the 80s in a small room and love them!

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#149604 - 10/18/06 11:59 AM Re: EP600 vertical or horizontal config questions.. [Re: bugbitten]
alan Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/29/02
Posts: 3186
Loc: Toronto/New York/Dwight
bugbitten,

Good suggestion! Likewise, if I had to choose for phoenixrae (if budget is a factor), I'd go for the M80s and EP500, with the option of adding a second subwoofer later on if the room needs it for better distribution and greater impact.
_________________________
Alan Lofft,
Axiom Resident Expert

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#149605 - 10/18/06 03:16 PM Re: EP600 vertical or horizontal config questions.. [Re: alan]
jakeman Offline
aficionado

Registered: 10/03/05
Posts: 852
Loc: Toronto
Got to agree with Alan and Bugbitten. Two 500s would be a killer combination with that size room and buy you smoother FR in more seating positions. If you can only swing for one sub I would opt for the EP600 for 3db more output and 3db more extension.
_________________________
John

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#149606 - 10/18/06 03:48 PM Re: EP600 vertical or horizontal config questions.. [Re: jakeman]
RickF Offline
axiomite

Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 5210
Loc: Vero Beach, Florida
...and add another 600 in the future!

BTW, Our 600 is vertical and one day while messing around I did place it on the side and couldn't tell a difference sonically but it sure did take up a lot of floor space, I thought.
_________________________
Rick
Our Room

smile

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#149607 - 10/18/06 04:06 PM Re: EP600 vertical or horizontal config questions. [Re: alan]
phoenixrae Offline
regular

Registered: 09/18/06
Posts: 5
Thank you all for your comments. I was aiming also at M80*500, but through countless expert reviews it kept on mentioning that placement for 80s was a little difficult and that's why I leaned toward 60s. Although my room is big, it is oddly shaped and the side of room that I plan on placing it only have 15' of space, which would only allow for about 8-9' spacing between the 80s and my listening positioning is 16' away. I'm gonna try to diagram the room here. The Big Boss would not let me place it on the windows side, so that I can listen to my music while drinking at the bar, so I'm condemmed to only one side. Also, I don't think the Boss is going to allow me to purchase another sub, since we're having another kid born sometime in March or April 07. She want me to get whatever I need in one purchase ($3500 limit), so I gotta make it right the first time without having the feeling that I may need more bass. So based on the following generalized diagram, what would be best suited for my needs 60*500, 80*500, or 60*600? The asterisks are usable space.

|||||||||||||TV side
|||||||||||||******************
|||||||||||||******************* fireplace
|||||||||||||********************
|||||||||||||*************************
|||||||||||||*************************
|||||||||||||***s*********************
|||||||||||||***o*********************windows
|||||||||||||***f*********************
|||||||||||||***a*********************
|******************************
|**wet bar***********sofa********
|******************************
|******************************
|******************************

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#149608 - 10/18/06 04:54 PM Re: EP600 vertical or horizontal config questions. [Re: alan]
phoenixrae Offline
regular

Registered: 09/18/06
Posts: 5
You know come to think of it, the 80*500 does sound more enticing to me, since every time I look at Axiom speakers my thoughts alway center around that speakers. Anyway, I got until the first week of this coming November to make up my mind. The only thing that bug me about the 80s is that I know eventually I have to buy some mono amps (Outlaw 2200) to get that optimization that I wanted or for better handling of it. That's the part the Boss will never know about, but I'll buy it through my allowance saving. After being a newly wed for a year, just bought a house, a car for the wife and had a one 11 months daughter(phoenixrae), I get a monthly allowance from the wife who does not work. But I'm glad she's wearing the pants on the financial aspect, if it's was up to me we would be broke. I think when the ordering day come I will most likely get 80*500 and one day I'll get out of my skirt and tell the Boss another sub is required. Wow how life changed a young man who used to have so much freedom with his money.

Thanks again guys for all your suggestions. I really appreciated it as I am going crazy trying to make up my mind on this for 6 months now. At one point the Boss almost put a stop on this, since she said I was putting too much effort into it and not paying attention to her and the kid. I am so guilty of doing this at work everyday, but lucky I controlled the firewall and all the servers here. There will be no evidence of axiomaudio.com on my servers log here. hehehe..

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#149609 - 10/18/06 05:54 PM Re: EP600 vertical or horizontal config questions.. [Re: jakeman]
phoenixrae Offline
regular

Registered: 09/18/06
Posts: 5
Hi JakeMan,

Wow! man can you still hear people when they are talking to you after owning a pair of 500s & 600s? I stumble upon your old threads contribution on High Excursion driver at AVSforum last night when I was querying the net on EP600 and spend about 1.5 hours reading it. I got to admit I know nothing about sounds, but when I read your threads it opened up my understanding. Also, I really like your composure and demeanors against those that are attacking you with their HSU HO and eating up your red T-Rex for BBQ. Good job!

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#149610 - 10/18/06 08:49 PM Re: EP600 vertical or horizontal config questions.. [Re: phoenixrae]
St_PatGuy Offline
axiomite

Registered: 03/07/05
Posts: 7395
Loc: Glendale, Arizona
Phoenixrae, I can tell you really want the M80s. Save yourself a lot of heartache and second-guessing--get the M80s. Buy as much as you can comfortably afford the first time around, even if it means getting less overall components. You'll be happier in the long run. It's taken some of us quite a while to build an HT set-up, but it's well worth it in the end if you are happy with everything.
_________________________
***********
"Nothin' up my sleeve. . ." --Bullwinkle J. Moose

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#149611 - 10/19/06 10:25 AM Re: EP600 vertical or horizontal config questions. [Re: St_PatGuy]
Hutzal Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 2102
Loc: Hollywood. (Canadian @ <3)
Phoenixrae,

If you are not the kind of guy to care about a slight blemish on the finish of your speakers.

I would HIGHLY suggest checking out the Factory Outlet speakers, they are all 10% off from their regular price and have nothing wrong with them other than the fact that they are not "perfect" on the exterior, so they are reserved for the factory outlet.

Here is the link to the outlet.

I added up the M80 EP600 5.1 system with the following:

2 x M80
1 x VP150
1 x EP600
2 x QS8s

The total came to 3428.55 USD with the 5% off for ordering a total of 5 items as well.

In the end you get a total of 15% off of regular price. I would say that the M80 EP600 is within your reach if you are not at all anal about slight and MINOR defects. Many people on this board have ordered from the factory outlet and still can't find what was wrong with the speaker.

Keep in mind that there is absolutly nothing wrong with the speaker itself, it is all due to exterior defects.

-Hutz


Edited by Hutzal (10/19/06 10:25 AM)
_________________________
Producer | Composer
www.robbhutzal.com

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#149612 - 10/19/06 11:51 AM Re: EP600 vertical or horizontal config questions.. [Re: phoenixrae]
Nachosgrande Offline
local

Registered: 09/26/06
Posts: 258
Loc: New York
Quote:


My questions on the EP600 is that if I order it in "vertical" config, can I still use it horizontally? I know nothing will stop me from laying it down horizontally, but if I decided to placed it in the reverse orientation from what I order will it cause problem for me?




Check out this link - Axiom founder has one set up horizontally (as well as another 600 vertically!) Good enough for me...

http://www.audioholics.com/news/editorials/AxiomAudioTour3.php
_________________________
Epic Grand Master 500 - trying to fit in a VP180!

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#149613 - 10/19/06 01:55 PM Re: EP600 vertical or horizontal config questions.. [Re: Nachosgrande]
RickF Offline
axiomite

Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 5210
Loc: Vero Beach, Florida
I notice on Amie & Ian's speakers they do not have the Axiom logo on either 600, I'm curious to know if the logo was maybe attached to the grill on some of the earlier 600s?

Beautiful speakers and environment BTW!


_________________________
Rick
Our Room

smile

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#149614 - 10/19/06 02:30 PM Re: EP600 vertical or horizontal config questions. [Re: Hutzal]
phoenixrae Offline
regular

Registered: 09/18/06
Posts: 5
Thanks Hutzal for the inputs and I will take your recommendation, since I can get the best HT package from Axiom with my limited budget. Although I am a novice about sound, I know one thing when it come to speakers and that is you listen to them and not look at them.

Thanks again everyone and I'll start my ordering process soon and can't wait for arrival.

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#149615 - 10/19/06 02:46 PM Re: EP600 vertical or horizontal config questions.. [Re: phoenixrae]
jakeman Offline
aficionado

Registered: 10/03/05
Posts: 852
Loc: Toronto
Hi Phoenixrae

I'm glad you found the information in those threads helpful. Actually the idea of four EP subs was not to have "louder" bass but smoother linear bass across all the seats in my home theatre and it certainly achieved that objective. Whether I have one or four subs the volume is set at the same 75db. Most rooms benefit from multiple subs in reducing room nodes and better FR.

All four subs combined were calibrated at the same 75db as each of my other speakers. Because of bass reinforcement that meant I could calibrate each sub to around 65db for an effortless sound. I am now down to two vertical ep600s and an SMS-1, with each sub calibrated at 70db. 2 subs closely collocated produces an additional 6db in output, while 3 subs creates 9db and 4 subs 12db depending on placement. Besides better in-room frequency linearity, compression artifacts are virtually eliminated and distortion is kept at an absolute minimum with multiple subs. Adding another sub is one of the best ways to improve the quality of bass reproduction and sound quality in an HT.
_________________________
John

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#149616 - 10/19/06 02:56 PM Re: EP600 vertical or horizontal config questions. [Re: phoenixrae]
Hutzal Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 2102
Loc: Hollywood. (Canadian @ <3)
phoenixrae,

Glad to know that you are getting the best Axiom has to offer, from what I have heard, you will not regret it at all!

-Robb.
_________________________
Producer | Composer
www.robbhutzal.com

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#149617 - 10/19/06 04:29 PM Re: EP600 vertical or horizontal config questions. [Re: phoenixrae]
michael_d Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3875
Loc: Up yonder
Iíve wrote this probable a dozen times or so, so here goes again. The 500 is a great sub but the 600 is noticeably better. I upgraded from the 500 to the 600.

The 600 does have a drawback over the 500 though. Ė itís harder to place if you donít have a lot of options. Itís either too damn tall or itís too damn wide if lying on its side. Iím seriously considering peddling the 600 and buying two 500ís because I just donít have room for it. If I go with two 500ís, I could put them under the screen and hopefully sound as well as the single 600.

You might want to lay out your room and make sure you have the space for the 600. And also keep in mind that the sub needs to sit where it will work best. This isnít always where you would like to put it. My 600 is now mid wall, (lengthwise) of my HT room and I absolutely hate having it there from a room aesthetic perspective.
_________________________


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#149618 - 10/19/06 05:00 PM Re: EP600 vertical or horizontal config questions.. [Re: RickF]
Amie Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 1620
Okay, you made me look! Actually, we get stuff before things like logo placement are decided, so you're absolutely right - we only have the logo on one sub (and it's on the grille). All Axiom speaker prototypes are made in Light Maple so Ian can bring them home and I won't complain about the color if they sit here too long
_________________________
Amie Colquhoun
Axiom Audio

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#149619 - 10/19/06 05:10 PM Re: EP600 vertical or horizontal config questions. [Re: Amie]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8268
Loc: Tacoma
Ian is even more brilliant than I thought.
_________________________
bibere usque ad hilaritatem

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#149620 - 10/19/06 05:37 PM Re: EP600 vertical or horizontal config questions. [Re: michael_d]
jakeman Offline
aficionado

Registered: 10/03/05
Posts: 852
Loc: Toronto
Quote:

Iím seriously considering peddling the 600 and buying two 500ís because I just donít have room for it. If I go with two 500ís, I could put them under the screen and hopefully sound as well as the single 600.




From the perspective of what gives you optimum HT sound reproduction and keeping in mind that famous Harmon report on multiple subs I'd order it as follows:

1. 4 ep600s
2. 3 ep600s and 1 ep500
3. 2 ep600s and 2 ep500s
4. 1 ep600 and 3 ep500s
5. 4 ep500s
6. 3 ep 600s
7. 2 ep 600s and 1 ep 500
8. 1 ep600 and 2 ep500s
9. 3 ep500s
10. 2 ep600s
11. 1 ep600 and 1 ep500
12. 2 ep500s
13. 1 ep600
14. 1 ep 500

The biggest incremental improvement is going from one sub to two subs or in your case an ep600 to 2 500s. Its diminishing returns beyond two 500s but I have to say a pair of 600s provides outstanding bass in my HT.

Whether you place the subs together or not will depend on your particular room acoustics.
_________________________
John

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#149621 - 10/19/06 06:04 PM Re: EP600 vertical or horizontal config questions. [Re: tomtuttle]
Ajax Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/30/03
Posts: 6246
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
Quote:

Ian is even more brilliant than I thought.



...and wise!
_________________________
Jack

"People generally quarrel because they cannot argue." - G. K. Chesterton

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#149622 - 10/19/06 08:12 PM Re: EP600 vertical or horizontal config questions. [Re: jakeman]
RickF Offline
axiomite

Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 5210
Loc: Vero Beach, Florida
>>>From the perspective of what gives you optimum HT sound reproduction and keeping in mind that famous Harmon report on multiple subs I'd order it as follows:

1. 4 ep600s
2. 3 ep600s and 1 ep500
3. 2 ep600s and 2 ep500s
4. 1 ep600 and 3 ep500s
5. 4 ep500s
6. 3 ep 600s
7. 2 ep 600s and 1 ep 500
8. 1 ep600 and 2 ep500s
9. 3 ep500s
10. 2 ep600s
11. 1 ep600 and 1 ep500
12. 2 ep500s
13. 1 ep600
14. 1 ep 500


That's what I'd call, 'Breakin' it down'!

Four EP600s in one room? Geeee-sus!


_________________________
Rick
Our Room

smile

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#149623 - 10/19/06 10:12 PM Re: EP600 vertical or horizontal config questions. [Re: Ajax]
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16258
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
He's brise, he is.
_________________________
"I wish I had documented moreÖ" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

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#149624 - 10/20/06 11:25 AM Re: EP600 vertical or horizontal config questions. [Re: jakeman]
michael_d Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3875
Loc: Up yonder
John,

I donít even know you and you are making me spend money. If the Rick twins werenít bad enoughÖ. LOLÖ.

I ended up moving my 600 to the side wall because Rick has his there. Rick moved his because of your recommendation.

Now Iím contemplating two 500ís.

Youíre killing my booze budget John!!

_________________________


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#149625 - 10/20/06 11:31 AM Re: EP600 vertical or horizontal config questions.. [Re: Amie]
michael_d Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3875
Loc: Up yonder
OK, my curiosity is killing me AmieÖ.

Do you guys normally have your speakers sitting where they are? And do you keep the floor bare wood like that?

Whatís the thing on the wall?? It looks cool as hell and I have a perfect spot for something like that in my house.
_________________________


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#149626 - 10/20/06 11:32 AM Re: EP600 vertical or horizontal config questions. [Re: RickF]
jakeman Offline
aficionado

Registered: 10/03/05
Posts: 852
Loc: Toronto
Quote:

>>>From the perspective of what gives you optimum HT sound reproduction and keeping in mind that famous Harmon report on multiple subs I'd order it as follows:

1. 4 ep600s
2. 3 ep600s and 1 ep500
3. 2 ep600s and 2 ep500s
4. 1 ep600 and 3 ep500s
5. 4 ep500s
6. 3 ep 600s
7. 2 ep 600s and 1 ep 500
8. 1 ep600 and 2 ep500s
9. 3 ep500s
10. 2 ep600s
11. 1 ep600 and 1 ep500
12. 2 ep500s
13. 1 ep600
14. 1 ep 500


That's what I'd call, 'Breakin' it down'!

Four EP600s in one room? Geeee-sus!






Hey Rick I never made it to numero uno. Carrying those big beasts up and down several flights of stairs was the main reason though it did save me a few trips to the gym. I did check out the following configurations:

#2,3,6,7,8,10,11,12,13,14

Here is a shot from earlier this year of configuration #3. My brother had scooped the third ep600 and I replaced it with an ep500.



Rick and Mdrew, another 600 or 500 on one of the other midwalls would really flatten room acoustical nodes smooth FR across your seats.
_________________________
John

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#149627 - 10/20/06 11:47 AM Re: EP600 vertical or horizontal config questions. [Re: michael_d]
jakeman Offline
aficionado

Registered: 10/03/05
Posts: 852
Loc: Toronto
Quote:

John,


Now Iím contemplating two 500ís.

Youíre killing my booze budget John!!





Hmmm...thats a difficult predicament. Now that you mention it Mdrew a few of these cases have been known to dull room nodes.


_________________________
John

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#149628 - 10/20/06 04:09 PM Re: EP600 vertical or horizontal config questions. [Re: jakeman]
Nachosgrande Offline
local

Registered: 09/26/06
Posts: 258
Loc: New York
Yes, positioned directly opposite the 600's those cases would offer a nice acoustical touch
_________________________
Epic Grand Master 500 - trying to fit in a VP180!

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