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Upgrading audio in new Honda?
#150404 10/30/06 07:35 AM
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I think I asked this before awhile back, but i never got around to doing anything about it...so I'll ask again. Maybe this time I'll actually do something.

I have a new 2006 Honda Civic Hybrid with the navigation system. I like the car, but the audio really stinks in it.

Any suggestions? I know nothing about car audio. I would NOT be installing myself. Obviously I'm looking for Axiomesque performance. Clarity, detail...you know...good sound!

Perhaps the first step would be to simply replace the speakers. Not sure how easy replacing/adding an aftermarket amp will be with this car. I've heard it's not so easy.

Re: Upgrading audio in new Honda?
spiffnme #150405 10/30/06 09:34 PM
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The folks here can help you out. http://forum.elitecaraudio.com/index.php

They’ve helped me several times in the past.

The SQ forum is geared to audiophiles for auto, whereas the SPL is geared toward the more……oh….I’d better not say.

Be careful though, car audio can be every bit as expensive as home audio and there are few guys that frequent the SQ board that think you need $1500 drivers and $5000 amps.

Re: Upgrading audio in new Honda?
michael_d #150406 10/30/06 11:11 PM
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Thanks for that link. Though every time I try to post a question or search the archives, I get booted to a login screen. I log in. It thanks me, and then sends me to the main page again. It's an endless loop.

Re: Upgrading audio in new Honda?
spiffnme #150407 10/30/06 11:24 PM
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When I was looking to get new gear for my truck I was checking out Sounddomain and CarAudio.


Rick


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud

Re: Upgrading audio in new Honda?
spiffnme #150408 10/31/06 05:45 AM
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I'm running Focal's in my car. They seem quite Axiom-like. They do cost a little more but I felt they were the better value. You should listen to some if you can. I've also heard good things about the JBL power series but have never heard them. I suggest budgeting $200-500 on a pair of comps.
I'll make a suggestion from personal experience- Consider going "front stage only" The Idea is to reproduce a 2ch home system type sound. Buy 2 really great speakers and 75+ wpc instead of 4-6 mediocre speakers. Try fading the stock system all the way front for a week and see what you think.
There are some very slick integration systems recently out worth serious consideration- check out the Alpine vehicle hub pro($500), the JL Audio clean sweep($300), and JBL has a similar unit coming out with Logic 7 processing and modest internal amplification in addition to pre-outs.($1k last I heard) The Honda HU might not suck so bad with good speakers and real power.
I hang around on fbodyaudio.com quite a bit- the forum is a lot like this one, and the site itself is quite informative. They even have a non-fbody section since the site owner got a Buick.
You are wise to not rush this- take your time.

Re: Upgrading audio in new Honda?
duckman #150409 10/31/06 07:25 AM
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I keep reading great things about MB Quark. Any idea what they sound like? Also, how the heck do you demo car speakers?

My first thought was the MB Quark QSD 216 component speakers for up front, and their QSD 164 for the rear deck. Amps...I haven't a clue. I'm hoping that much like home audio, a good amp is a good amp. Something like this? Looking at Alpine only because I've read (though not confirmed) that the stock head unit/nav system is built by Alpine.

I've also emailed Reus Systems. They do custom installs. Thought they may be able to provide me with some good info, if not do the job for me.

Re: Upgrading audio in new Honda?
spiffnme #150410 10/31/06 07:40 AM
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Another thought/question. Component speaker systems seem to come with separate cross-over units. 1) where the heck to you hide those cross-over units, and more importantly 2) most amps I've seen have cross-overs as well. What gives?

Re: Upgrading audio in new Honda?
spiffnme #150411 10/31/06 05:05 PM
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I’d also agree with the front over a complete rap around system. My last truck I did this (sorta). Instead of dumping a bunch of money into speakers for the back doors, I just popped in some two ways for ‘fillers’ in the back doors and ran components in the doors with a pair of ten’s under the back seat.

Components are the way to go for the front. You could probably get away with just running a pair in the front and a couple 10” subs in the back somewhere. Most car audio guys will recommend installing foot pods down by your feet that direct sound up and into the cab. That’s not real practical for me as a truck owner. The speakers would be too close to muddy/snow covered boots, but it may work out OK for a car that lives in a sunny / fair weather environment.

X-overs can be mounted wherever it is convenient to do so. Sometimes you can mount them in the doors behind the speakers, but most of the time, installers will mount them where they are accessible. Sometimes under a consol. It really depends on the vehicle.

I really like Alpine head units. I don’t much care for anything else Alpine makes, but their HU’s are outstanding.

Speaker choice is not any different than home audio. It all depends on your preference. MD Quarts are great speakers and get a lot of praise, as well as Focals. My last set of components were CDT. They sounded incredible. I’m not sure what they have out now, but they’re worth looking into. http://www.cdtaudio.com/car_audio.htm

For amps, I used Phoenix Gold. They make some kick ass amps. My subs were Sound Stream Van Gogh series, which are a very musical SQ sub. But as with any sub, it’s only as good as the enclosure.

You’ll also want to run an Optima Yellow top battery. Some guys will tell you to run a capacitor, but I prefer going with a good battery over caps. In either case, you need one or the other or your lights will dim every time the sub hits.

And of course you should install dynomat everywhere you can. Definitely around you subs and speakers. But if you can pull all the carpet, door liners and roof liner, installing dynomat will dramatically improve sound.

Re: Upgrading audio in new Honda?
spiffnme #150412 11/01/06 07:08 AM
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MB Quarts are well respected, the CDT's are supposed to have a brighter axiom-like sound and are considered a good value by most. Bostons are reputed to be laid-back, however the top line bostons are supposed to be quite different.For every brand mentioned in this thread there is someone on the fbodyaudio board that has them or used to. When auditioning speakers use a cd you know well. Don't camp out in the sweet spot, listen off-axis as you will in the car. A set of comps is not nesesarily a must-have if the install becomes a problem, a quality set of coax speakers can be very good as well. Whatever you get I would suggest 50 wpc a min. if only running 2 ch., especially without a sub.
The better comps will have adjustment switches on the crossover for slope and/or tweeter attenuation (mine are dialed back 3db,maybe 6, I forget) figure on acessing them a few times before you're happy with the sound. Some guys put them in the doors, I would try not to due to moisture, although honda doors are probably drier than most. Mine are behind the plastic trim panels over each rear wheel house. The kick panel area is the preferred location for front comps but it takes custom fabrication to do it right, and now were gettin serious. The q-logic panels are flimsy plastic and far from optimum, but may become your only option if the stock locations don't work out.
The x-over on amps is for sub integration, same as the x-over on axiom subs- you'll most likely bypass it and use the x-over in whatever head unit or processor you wind up with. Car audio amps vary in quality more that home amps but a good amp is still a good amp-Alpine is considered a pretty good value, JL Audio is a solid investment,Rockford fosgate,JBL ,beware on anything that seems too cheap or too expensive compared to the above.
Sony- 10 yrs ago sony was very good, today sony is the BOSE of car audio, run away from sony or anyone trying to sell you sony.
Subs- unless you're a serious bass head a single 8 or 10 of good quality in the right box and with good power will be all you'll need.Good power to me is 300-500 watts.Make sure to match the impedance of the sub and amp. Car subs is an entire hobby by itself and installation makes far more difference here than anywhere else.Unles you like to get quite loud I would be tempted to hold off on a sub till later and see how things sound without one. Maybe run rca's and size the power wire for that option later.
Caps are a myth- to be useful you'd have to fill the trunk with them. Unless you're gonna be "bumpin'" with your boyz for hours on end in the mall parking lot a different battery shouldn't be nesesary in my opinion, if you put a 1000w amp on a big-ass sub you may want a high output alternator or your lights may in fact dim with the music.

I'm tired- going to bed now

Re: Upgrading audio in new Honda?
duckman #150413 11/01/06 08:02 AM
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Thanks for all the tips guys. I'll very likely not be getting a sub. My trunk space is near zero as it is. Any ideas on how to get good bass without a sub?

I was thinking about the MB Quark QSD 164 for that, but I've been told they won't fit in my rear deck.

Re: Upgrading audio in new Honda?
spiffnme #150414 11/01/06 01:31 PM
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Quote:

Any ideas on how to get good bass without a sub?



Same way you get it in a home theater. Larger drivers. It takes some hackery to fit larger speakers into a car, though.

Re: Upgrading audio in new Honda?
spiffnme #150415 11/02/06 04:27 AM
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That's an option to put some mids in the rear deck in place of a sub. When I auditioned the Diamond hex series they had an option on the crossover to run an extra pair of mids without tweets for rear fill. I believe the pitch was you could run the rear mids off the same 2 chanels as the fronts, thus eliminating the need for a 4ch amp. It did seem like a slick idea, never heard that setup though. I can tell you the hex's were my second choice after the focals, similar sound. Of course the only bass gained with that option would be from having the trunk as an enclosure.
They do make subs in the 6" range that might fit back there, this is just an example. I've never heard that sub but ED is not garbage. Whether a speaker fits is subjective, the fittment charts will tell you if a speaker will just screw in, but with a spacer or little plywood baffle, what you want might suddenly fit. Get in there with a ruler and do some measuring. here is a good site to gather info on different equipment.
You could just throw away your spare tire and jack to make room for a sub. Subthump makes such a box for f-bodies and there are guys driving around with a sub instead of the ability to change a tire. Really though, what you're considering with the Quarts makes plenty of sense.

Re: Upgrading audio in new Honda?
duckman #150416 11/02/06 06:25 PM
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If there’s any way you can squeeze at least one sub in that car, I’d highly recommend it even it’s one 8” somewhere. Car audio is no different that home audio, hard hitting bass rules. I’d take a peak under your rear seats or behind them and see what you have for room. If it can be done, it has been. Like Duckman said, this is a huge hobby and I’m sure that someone, somewhere has already figure out how to do exactly what you are looking to do. Keep searching the car audio forums and I bet you’ll find a solution. But whatever you do, don’t confuse car subs with the thump-thump low rider perception many people have. Car subs can be extremely musical. My Von Gogh’s were amazing and that was five years ago, so I bet there’s even better subs out now for half the price.

DM, I don’t quite understand why you feel that capacitors are a myth or that you would need a trunk full of them to work. They do work, but to get them to work is not very cost effective. Depending on the number of amps and the wattage and impedance of the amps, caps can be sized and wired correctly to virtually eliminate all transient load voltage dips. The reasons I recommend using a yellow top battery over caps is cost and ease of installation. The battery is under $100. A 1 farad cap with an acceptable impedance rating to do any good are at least $100 each and every amp will need one, or better yet, two ½ farad caps in parallel at $75 each (preferably a 16v and a 20v). The Yellow top is not just a deep cycle battery. It’s a RG (Recombinant gas) battery. They have much higher current providing capabilities than standard car batteries and I’m not talking about cold cranking amps either. Even though the alternator provides all current while the engine is running, the voltage regulator can not respond quickly enough during heavy transient load spikes when the amps pull extra current for deep bass notes. I’ve yet to see an alternator overloaded and they rarely output max amperage. Even with a half a dozen baja lights on a light bar, the electrical system may see a 100 amp continuous draw. Most alternators put out at least 120 amps. Even though the alternator’s voltage is around 14.4 volts, when the amps pull, the voltage will dip under the battery’s release voltage and that is where the yellow top act as a voltage ‘shock absorber’ just like the caps would. If the lights are dim all the time, then a new alternator should be on the shopping list, but if they just dim for a second when the subs are hitting, your stuck with caps, RG battery or go with an alternator that has a quicker responding voltage regulator. And to be real honest, I haven’t bothered to look for one, so I don’t know what’s available. The yellow tops have always cured my problems.

But all that aside, if I'm full of it, please educate me because I don't want to be handing out bogus advice and I'm always open to the idea that I am wrong.

Re: Upgrading audio in new Honda?
michael_d #150417 11/02/06 07:45 PM
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Quote:

But all that aside, if I'm full of it, please educate me because I don't want to be handing out bogus advice and I'm always open to the idea that I am wrong.


Just about the "hard-hitting bass rules" part.

Bren R.

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