Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners Panny ax100 vs Hitachi Ultravision S6500

I currently have the 65 in. Ultravision in my theater. I have been wanting a projector. I have already wired the room for a projector, but I am kinda afraid to pull the trigger on one just because of a few issues. First can I switch from tv to dvd without having to change settings on my projector everytime I switch between them for screen settings. Also, do these projectors put out enough light to be seen clearly (with a good picture)for tv such as football games with my lights on in the basement. I love movies and they are my first passion, but I want to be able to watch football or HD tv on my sat without having to have the lights out. My room is completely sealed off from outside light. Also will the colors, saturation, bright and mostly clarity or shapness of the screen be as good as my Ultravision I have now. It is a wonderful picture and I will hate to sell it, but I really want a theater down there. Does anyone have this projector or a similar one that can tell me if this is a good idea or not???? thanks!!!

if you want to be able to view with lights on, the Panny AX100 is a torch with 2000 luminens and will be more than enough for what you are looking for.

Make sure to get a hign gain screen aswell.

I’ve been researching screens for a few months now and think I’ve got it figured out……I have the 900 au. It’s too bad I didn’t wait a few months and get the 100, it looks like one hell of a projector. The stupid 900 sat in a box for five months before I hung it on my ceiling, right about when the 100 started selling. Oh well……

The ranting aside, don’t worry too much about gaming and TV / Sports with a projector and the lights on. Not everyone with projectors like to live in bat caves, myself included. There are a few things to consider though.

First off, don’t put any lights between the projector and the screen. After all, a projector is sending a beam of light to be reflected back at you, and any lights between it and the screen will only degrade what you see on the screen. At a minimum put these lights on a dimmer or a separate switch. Sure wish I would have thought about that before I hung the sheetrock. I have some lights without bulbs……..

Screen choices for bat caves are easy. Just go for a white screen unless your projector has a pitiful contrast ratio, then go for a high contrast grey.

Screen recommendations for use where there is ambient light start to get contradictory. You will see over and over again where grey screens are best because they reject ambient light, and they also improve contrast by bringing out the blacks. You’ll see this everywhere and that if you have a projector with “low” contrast, you’ll always be told to go with a grey screen. So what is “low”?? I asked this over an over again and couldn’t get a straight answer. Everyone just told me that I had one and that even though the 900 has a pretty high ‘advertised’ contrast, in actuality it isn’t. The guys at Stewart told me to stick with a grey screen unless my ‘real’ contrast was above 3000. The 900 tests out at around 2000.

So that’s the grey side of the argument for use with a lit room. You will also see over and over again where folks tell you to go with a high gain screen so that in ambient light it will reflect back to you more light than what the projector is putting out. Makes sense to me, ambient light, need more reflective light to see better…..hmmmm unfortunately, high gain screens are mostly white, or brilliant white, so that contradicts what the grey screen guys recommend. Catch 22…….

Fortunately for us, there are some screens out there that in theory should work for us living in the light. They call them high gain / high contrast screens. They will be grey or silver and have a rated gain of one or higher. Normally, a grey screen will have a gain of .8 or lower. And when tested, they tend to be lower than what the manufacture claims. There are a few of these high gain / high contrast screens available, but each one comes with its own little “issue” you have to contend with, so make sure you do your homework.

Stewart makes what they call the Firehawk screen (plus the GreyHawk and special order 3D silver). They have two versions of the Firehawk with two different gains. You need a minimum throw ratio of 1.6 for this screen to work best (projector throw distance divided by screen width). It is also an angular reflective screen which means the projector should be ceiling mounted so the image is reflected to the person sitting down. Stewart screens are one of the most expensive out there. Be sitting down when you get the quote. http://www.stewartfilmscreen.com/product_information/projection_screens_2.html

Vutec makes what they call the Silverstar screen. This screen has an amazing gain of 6.0. I didn’t look too close at this one because it comes as a ridgid sheet. It can not be shipped rolled up. You get a big assed box. Living in Alaska, this can be a problem. Big boxes don’t fit into planes very well. Make sure you get a quote for this screen AFTER you hear the Stewart price. I think these suckers go for about five grand. Not positive, didn’t check. http://www.vutec.com/silverstar.htm

Da-lite makes several different screen types. They have a couple HC/HG screens. I don’t know much about Da-lite. They are not quite as expensive as Stewart, but they aren’t far behind either……. I figured what the hell, I'm already into this deal for a lot of coin, so what's another two hundred. I ordered a Stewart. http://www.da-lite.com/products/selecting.php

Another thing to consider with ANY high gain screen is the viewing cone. What the hell’s a viewing cone?, I asked one salesman. Well, in short, it means that there is a “cone” in which a person can sit and view the image without some sort of image degradation. The “cone” is actually the angle from the screen into the room where viewers will be sitting. Why the hell they call it a “cone” instead of an angle beats me. Everything else is some sort of friggin angle, but oh no…..let’s call this something different just to confuse these poor bastards as if they aren’t confused enough. Anyway, high gain screens have a smaller viewing cove than standard screens. You’ll need to figure that out too……

Or, you can go the DIY route. I made the screen I’m using now and it works outstanding. I was going to make another one in a 2.35 ratoi, but I ran into troubles finding a mirror big enough to make the one I wanted to make. Plus, I can’t spray paint worth a crap so I decided to forgo the stress and just buy a damn screen. But if you’re interested in going the DIY route, I’d make the black flame. You can either mix your own paint, or buy it pre-mixed. After running around finding the different paints needed to mix it, I think buying it ready to go is well worth the price. http://www.xtreme-fusion-screens.com/home.html

If you are going to go the constant image height route, that’s another five hundred word discussion. But figure that out first, because you don’t want to go threw all this crap twice.

In summery, after having a big honking image on my wall for a month or so, I'd rather deal with the issues of projectors and have that big image than not.

It would apear that I've written a book.......crap, I've got things to do. Later......

Wow, Mike. That's some pretty good information, right there.

But I think I'm going to need a beer to understand most of it.

What I hear you saying is "if you ever get the urge for a FP, be prepared to not only torture yourself with new technical details, but also to invite mdrew, sirquack and others over to help you really figure out WTF"

I liked the part about the screen not fitting in the airplane

Thank you very much for taking the time to provide such excellent analysis, Mike. I know that's going to help a lot of people.

>>First off, don’t put any lights between the projector and the screen. After all, a projector is sending a beam of light to be reflected back at you, and any lights between it and the screen will only degrade what you see on the screen.

I don't know if this is entirely correct. I cannot see any reason why putting light through other light will hinder the light of each path.

The only thing that will effect the image on the screen is if you have light hitting the screen and washing out the image.

I think if you can have complete darkness on and around the screen you can have lights in the path from the projector to the screen.

I just don't see how other lights in the path of one light will effect its penetration.

Please spend some time on http://www.projectorcentral.com to read about projectors for HT use and light cannons for business presentations, there is a difference. My Z2 works great with ambient light in the room for sports and movie watching. Getting a light cannon projector will not have the default settings for home theater use.

In theory you’re probably thinking right. All I know for sure is that my cans over the screen no longer have bulbs in them. I tried different PAR’s to go from flood to spot that did not shine directly on the screen without any luck. I also have a florescent fixture in the middle of the room between the screen and projector. I can’t see squat on the screen when it’s on.

I use a table lamp at the side of the room for just enough light to find my evening cocktail. I also have a pretty good sized window that usually has the black out blind up. When we sit down to watch a movie we’ll black everything out just for that little extra darkness and I’ll put the table lamp on its lowest setting.

………learn from my pain and mistakes while I’m humble enough to admit them.

Ok, this all sounds great. I spend a lot of time on projectorcentral. Lately they seem to just give everything a 5 star rating. Anyway, that answers one question, but what about picture quality. Are these projectors better overall picture then my picture I have now. One issue that i have with my tv that I wonder if can be fixed with a projector is when there is quick motion across the screen the picture drags and begins to pixilate and become blurry. Is this issue addressed with the newer projectors such as the one I have put into this subject line? I would love to have a giant picture, but if the color and picture don't pop and seemed washed in anyway, or the blacks are blotchy I won't like it. Do these projectors handle this?? thanks everyone.

>>but what about picture quality. Are these projectors better overall picture then my picture I have now. One issue that i have with my tv that I wonder if can be fixed with a projector is when there is quick motion across the screen the picture drags and begins to pixilate and become blurry.

This most likely has nothing to do with your TV. Your DVD player is most likely the culprit not being able to process the data fast enough in high demanding scenes. I would suggest picking up a new DVD player (the Oppo 971 is an awsome upscaling DVD, upscales to 720p/1080i via DVI-D)

>>but if the color and picture don't pop and seemed washed in anyway, or the blacks are blotchy I won't like it.

The Panny is an LCD projector and naturally don't have as deep blacks as DLP models. If you want deep blacks you're going to have to have a really flexible room for placement and at least 9 ft ceilings to get a decent screen height because of the offset of all DLPs. They don't have lense shift like the Panny AX100 which can be mounted on a bookshelf in the rear and the screen can be shifted up to 50% of its vertical height (I think its 50% or more)

If I personally had the 9 - 10ft ceilings I would get the Mitsu HD3000, it has awsome black levels and is at a killer street price right now.

Make sure you use a projector calculator prior to purchasing a DLP to make sure that the screen will be far enough off the ground (which is a problem with DLPs). Mitsubishi has one on their website that really helps.

>>In theory you’re probably thinking right. All I know for sure is that my cans over the screen no longer have bulbs in them. I tried different PAR’s to go from flood to spot that did not shine directly on the screen without any luck. I also have a florescent fixture in the middle of the room between the screen and projector. I can’t see squat on the screen when it’s on.

Ya, with low-gain screens this happens alot when ambient light is in the room. If your new 2.35:1 screen is higher gain you should have less of a problem with this.

In my room, I am planning to have all dimming lights (track lights) facing away from the screen, and all static lights (on a light switch with no dimmer) to accent the Axioms and screen.

It is literally taking me ALOT of time to plan out where I want the lights to go and how they should be designed in the room. I want something that I can easily turn back into a family room for selling purposes but at the same time be able to make it look like a theatre room. Its quite challenging!