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#151246 - 11/13/06 08:44 PM EP 350 Stand-by Problem
JasonB Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/30/06
Posts: 105
Loc: St. Albert, AB
Hey all,
I've had my system set up for a few days now and am really enjoying it. The only problem that I've been facing is that the EP350 sub like to 'fall asleep' at quiet volumes quite regularly. Its beginning to get quite annoying. I like to have to volume nice and low while working on homework, for background music while studying, and for late night listening.

It seems to vary greatly depending on what kind of music I have on. With the stuff that has a nice consistent bass line, I can turn the volume quite low withoug any problems (down to -45 on receiver, which is about 60db overall once the sub goes out). If I go up a few clicks, the sub kicks back in and the sound SPL goes up to about 65db, which isn't very loud at all. I won't be going much lower then this regularly. The problem lies with classical and orchestrated music, when there's not a whole lot of bass stuff going on, it needs to be as high as -18 or so on the receiver until it finally kicks in (SPL ranges from 70-80 dB with the sub still not on). This causes a lot of the subtle low notes and sounds to be completely lost, and is very degrading to the overall sound of the music (as I'm sure you could guess).

I've tried with the sub volume low and the LFE high on the receiver, as well as vice versa, and neither seems to cure the problem. Having the LFE level high seems to help the problem, but its still there. I have tried using a stereo encoded signal (over coax) as well as DTS 5.1 over Coax from my computer. The DTS seems to work better, which I'm guessing is because it has as a descrete LFE channel.

I've been looking through previous posts here on the forum of other people having the same problems, but none of them have written a solution to the problem. I'm curious if they ever found a way to fix it, or just sent the subs back and got something else. If anyone has found a solution to the problem, or have any other ideas I could try, please share.

Thanks
_________________________
____________________________ M22 VP100 QS8 EP500 Yamaha HTR-5960

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#151247 - 11/14/06 10:34 AM Re: EP 350 Stand-by Problem [Re: JasonB]
Jc Offline
aficionado

Registered: 06/27/06
Posts: 500
Loc: Sherbrooke, QC, Canada
Hi Jason,

Your situation seems to be quite unique. However, I believe that it can be easily solved. I suggest that you increase the trim level on your receiver and decrease your volume level on your EP350 it should solve your problem. Try it and please, let me know the result.

Jc
Axiom Audio Expert

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#151248 - 11/14/06 02:53 PM Re: EP 350 Stand-by Problem [Re: Jc]
dllewel Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 06/20/05
Posts: 1189
Loc: Utah, USA
I first read this and thought that what JC suggested was the same as what was done. But I think the difference is in the receivers sub trim level, vs. the LFE level.

If the receiver has an LFE level adjustment, it would not be applicable while you are listening to music. The LFE is a separate channel (the .1) in 5.1 multichannel audio/movies. Watching a movie, this adjustment would apply- but not when listening to stereo CDs.

Look for the trim or level adjustment for the sub in your receiver. It should be in an area where you can adjust the level for all of the main channels. Turn the sub level up in the receiver to send more source signal to the sub to keep it awake. You can then turn the gain on the sub itself down to balance it.
_________________________
-Dave

M80s VP150 QS8s EP500s
ravenmanor.com/cinema/

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#151249 - 11/14/06 02:58 PM Re: EP 350 Stand-by Problem [Re: JasonB]
Hutzal Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 2102
Loc: Hollywood. (Canadian @ <3)
Jason, sorry to hear about your sub problems, I have no clue how to fix it just wanted to say congrats on recieving your system!

Pics of the High Gloss Cherry Please!
_________________________
Producer | Composer
www.robbhutzal.com

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#151250 - 11/14/06 03:33 PM Re: EP 350 Stand-by Problem [Re: dllewel]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13318
Loc: Iowa
I agree with Dave, when I owned a 350, I kept my receiver sub trim level(dB) at 0dB, which put my subwoofer volume/gain knob at around 11-12 o'clock when calibrated with an spl meter at 75dB. If you have the receiver level to low, the sub may be going into sleep mode.
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#151251 - 11/14/06 11:13 PM Re: EP 350 Stand-by Problem [Re: JasonB]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10363
Jason, assuming that you actually meant the LFE level rather than the sub trim level, then that wouldn't have helped much since there's often little or no LFE present(none on music, occasionally in movies). As JC and the others suggested, increase the sub trim level and decrease the level setting on the sub itself to compensate; increasing that setting will provide a more consistent increase in the voltage level sent into the sub amp to keep it "awake".
_________________________
-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#151252 - 11/14/06 11:28 PM Re: EP 350 Stand-by Problem [Re: JohnK]
JasonB Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/30/06
Posts: 105
Loc: St. Albert, AB
Sorry for the confusion, but I was talking about increasing the sub trim. I found the LFE option as well and left that at its default (0, and it only goes to negative values). I currently have the sub trim at max (+10) and the sub volume at about 9 oClock. It works somewhat better, but I still have the sub cut out every now and then at lower volumes. Is there any way the cable could be the problem? I'm using a brand new 25' RG-6/U 18AWG CL2 cable from monoprice. There's no hiss or anything, so I don't believe the cable is receiving excessive amounts of noise. I have a cable from my old sub, but its about 2' too short to just hook up to try out (found that out yesterday). I may have to move the sub out slightly to see if the other cable solves the problem.
_________________________
____________________________ M22 VP100 QS8 EP500 Yamaha HTR-5960

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#151253 - 11/14/06 11:56 PM Re: EP 350 Stand-by Problem [Re: JasonB]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10363
Okay, then that's abnormal operation if even with the sub trim on the receiver that high the sub still cuts out. It seems unlikely that the cable was damaged and is so intermittent that the sub isn't getting enough voltage, but as you suggested move the sub enough so that you can try the shorter cable.

Another remote possibility is that the 5960 sub output is defective(ordinarily it can put out far more than enough). Connect your player analog output directly to the sub as an experiment(if that isn't what you already referred to as having been tried)to see if the player output voltage keeps it awake. Otherwise contact Axiom directly, since the sub amp may need to be replaced.
_________________________
-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#151254 - 11/15/06 02:19 AM Re: EP 350 Stand-by Problem [Re: JohnK]
JasonB Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/30/06
Posts: 105
Loc: St. Albert, AB
Ok, lets see if I can remember what I all tried:

- direct sub output from old DVD player in my room: no go since it does not allow any volume control, so my sub was just pounding away happily with the rest of my system nearly silent

- 2.1 analog hookups from same DVD player to receiver: this allowed me to control the sub volume, but did not solve the problem. sub cuts out around the same sound level (~60-70 db).

-optical out from DVD player: same results as coax from computer (main source)

- optical and 2.1 analog from DVD player going through my old Pioneer receiver: approximately the same result. The receiver is set up for my old satellite speakers and the volume level displayed is significantly different from my newer yamaha (same sound level on panasonic was like -60 compared to -40 on new yamaha). At this similar sound level, the sub was still cutting out occasionally. I believe this rules out the possibility that my receiver output is bad.

- New 25' optical cable run from my computer to yamaha receiver: Instead of my old coax connection (which was actually 2 - 12' cables coupled together), I decided to run this guy and see if there was a difference. VICTORY!!! I was able to turn the volume down until I could hardly hear anything out of any of the speakers, but I could slightly hear the sub playing and the light was green in the back. I was jumping for joy until... it cut out again . I thought I just over did it by going to below my hearing, so I began turning it up a bit at a time... by the time the sub came back in, it was back at the same old volume as before *sigh*.

- I also tried using two different cables to the sub. No difference.

So I seem to have ruled out the receiver, cables, source... New idea, what about a different player on my computer? Just tried that, no luck. The only other possibility I can think of is my sound card encoding to DTS. I just changed it to output Dolby Digital, no change. Stereo PCM? Worse. So I'm out of ideas. The only thing I can find is that it must be the sub that isn't working right.

Any other suggestions? I'll send Axiom an email about my problem and maybe link to this thread so I don't have to re-type all of this again .
_________________________
____________________________ M22 VP100 QS8 EP500 Yamaha HTR-5960

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#151255 - 11/15/06 02:37 AM Re: EP 350 Stand-by Problem [Re: JasonB]
BrenR Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/10/03
Posts: 3602
Loc: Winnipeg MB Canada
Emailing Axiom is probably a very good idea.

I have to admit, the lack of a hard power on was a contributing factor to my non-Axiom sub. (the other major factor is the relatively small amount of low frequency power required to match the sub output to that of the other speakers, unlike the other junk-jigglers here who like to run theirs 24dB hot... oops, my backspace key quit working. )

Seriously, though... Axiom should be able to help you out with some ideas (besides mine of keeping a AA battery with momentary switch in line with the sub out feed so you can reach over and give CPR to a sleeping sub) **CLEAR!!**.

Bren R.

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