 M80 as Center Channel?
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Has anyone tried using a M80 as a center channel mounted horizontally? I was advised by Axiom that there would not be a negative impact on the resonance of the speaker but I am wondering on how the dispersion of the high level fequencies would be (center the speaker under the screen or center the tweeters under the screen)?
I am asking becasue I would really like to use 5 identical full range speakers for SACD/DVDA (75% of listening time) but I do not have the space availabe under the projector screen come movie time to have the M80 in a vertical orientation. I suppose I could have a seperate VP150 for movies mounted above the screen and remove the M80 but it would be a shame to waste it...
Any advice or suggestions? Thanks.
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Re: M80 as Center Channel?
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The big issue with laying it horizontally, is that the mids & tweeters will be to the extreme left ot right. The dispersion would be off.
Since the 80's have the right driver compliment, I wonder how difficult it would be to move one mid & one tweeter to the opposite end? The internal cabinetry and bracing would have to be shifted, but it could work.
How about it Ian? You would arguably have the BIGGEST centre in the industry. But would it sell?......
Shawn
Epic 80/600 + M3's + M3 Algonquins + M2 Computer + EP125
I think I'm developing an addiction.
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Re: M80 as Center Channel?
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Some have done this in a vertical position with fabulous results. In fact there are a few people that have done 5.1 with all m80's.
Laying them down would screw up the mids/highs. The left/right axis design would then change to being up/down which would be going against design.
M80s VP180 4xM22ow 4xM3ic EP600 2xEP350
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Re: M80 as Center Channel?
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Kevin, welcome. Yes, the ideal is to have identical speakers across the front, and this also includes an identical vertical orientation. You haven't described why you wouldn't have room under the screen, since this is usually an ideal situation for a vertical center the same as, or at least as close as possible to, the mains. If it would be possible also consider using an M60 or even an M22 there.
-----------------------------------
Enjoy the music, not the equipment.
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Re: M80 as Center Channel?
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buff
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Have you guys seen this B&W Center channel in person?! It is huge! I was shocked when I saw it. B&W
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Re: M80 as Center Channel?
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real80sman, that's exactly what I was afraid of... I would love to see a VP180 with the same drivers as the M80 but in a symmetrical horizontal configuration. I'm just looking for a bit more of a full range (even 50Hz would be nice) center a la Paradigm CC-690 (which I am also seriousley considering and B&W 600/700 series).
JohnK, I have about 30" of clearance under my projector screen when it is down, so sadly none of the towers will fit vertically.
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Re: M80 as Center Channel?
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I have thought about this also. We would need some sort of wicked wall-mount bracket or a really big stand for it. How would you envision mounting it or were you thinking of just putting it sideways on the floor?
Ian Colquhoun
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Re: M80 as Center Channel?
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Ian, what if you made it a short floor-stander, specifically for placement under projection screens? Seems like you could steal some height by putting the woofers (and the mids?) side-by-side. There's got to be a "sweet spot" for optimal maximum height of a center channel speaker. Maybe you could angle the front baffle "up" a couple degrees to compensate for the notion that the tweeter would be lower. By making the model a floorstander, you get all the cabinet volume you need. I think what we need is a M80 in short-and-fat. Of course, it would probably be easier, cheaper and better if you did it with an M60.  Of just let people deal with their own stand problems. Engineer it so that it uses two of the FMS CC and give people a break on the pricing when buying the package.
bibere usque ad hilaritatem
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Re: M80 as Center Channel?
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Tom, I understand your thinking on that, but I think it would probably end up having so low a WAF as to be impossible to sell.
I also have a hard time imagining a wall bracket that would support that. However, a large stand would probably work just fine.
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!
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Re: M80 as Center Channel?
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I'm very partial to the look of this center speaker. 
getting to 2,000 posts; one year at a time vp160/qs8/qs4/ep350/m60/m2200s
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Re: M80 as Center Channel?
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In my particular case, it would do rather nicely on my lowboy equipment stand with some type of sound isolating shelf. Otherwise I think that a stand with more than one support pillar would work really well (the Paradigm CC-690 center channel comes in at 69lbs!) and I'm sure others will have some good ideas too.
If its price could be that of a single M80 ($650) or reasonable close then I think it would be a real winner with the dedicated home theatre crowd. Why not have a third choice as in the towers and bookshelves?
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Re: M80 as Center Channel?
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Quote:
JohnK, I have about 30" of clearance under my projector screen when it is down, so sadly none of the towers will fit vertically.
This is why I went with dual M22's. I have no complaints. They sound great. Oddly though, right up close and touching they seams to cancel each other out and didn't sound right. When I moved them around 20" apart, they sounded much, much better.
What would be cool, is an fat M22 with one large 6.5" and one 5" driver instead of the two 5-er's. Now that would be sweeeeetttt!
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Re: M80 as Center Channel?
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Quote:
This is why I went with dual M22's.
Dang Michael, the more I hear you guys talking about how good the dual M22s centers sound the more you keep having me consider.
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Re: M80 as Center Channel?
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Quote:
Quote:
This is why I went with dual M22's.
Dang Michael, the more I hear you guys talking about how good the dual M22s centers sound the more you keep having me consider.
If its any consolation, my dual M3s sound wicked too, I think its time to join the "Dual Bookshelf Centre" club, Rick... 
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Re: M80 as Center Channel?
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Quote:
If its any consolation, my dual M3s sound wicked too, I think its time to join the "Dual Bookshelf Centre" club.
I Agree.
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Re: M80 as Center Channel?
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Doug, I can always count on you for an "Amen" to the M3s 
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Re: M80 as Center Channel?
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Re: M80 as Center Channel?
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Quote:
I have thought about this also. We would need some sort of wicked wall-mount bracket or a really big stand for it. How would you envision mounting it or were you thinking of just putting it sideways on the floor?
Flat bottom as the existing VP's, but with threaded mounting points for dual stands - one at each end. The top part of the stand should have a pivot point to tilt up and down. Offer 3 different heights, with a 20% premium for custom height.
Shawn
Epic 80/600 + M3's + M3 Algonquins + M2 Computer + EP125
I think I'm developing an addiction.
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Re: M80 as Center Channel?
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Oh sure, you COULD do it that way. What are you... some kind of engineer or wise guy or something? 
bibere usque ad hilaritatem
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Re: M80 as Center Channel?
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Quote:
Oh sure, you COULD do it that way.
What are you... some kind of engineer or wise guy or something?
Had 5 minutes before I had to run out and do a call. It was just rambling off the top of my head. Sorry if it came off as arrogant.
To answer your question, though - Part wiseguy, part engineer wannabe, part reacher.....
Shawn
Epic 80/600 + M3's + M3 Algonquins + M2 Computer + EP125
I think I'm developing an addiction.
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Re: M80 as Center Channel?
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...and .162% hoser. That's actually pretty low, when you thing about it, so don't even think of being insulted.
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Re: M80 as Center Channel?
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Kevin, I'd suggest that you first try one M22 there, which you may find to be very satisfactory. If you want more output you can later add a second M22, as others have indicated.
-----------------------------------
Enjoy the music, not the equipment.
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Re: M80 as Center Channel?
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Quote:
I have thought about this also. We would need some sort of wicked wall-mount bracket or a really big stand for it. How would you envision mounting it or were you thinking of just putting it sideways on the floor?
IMO It would probably fit in 75% or so of the normal horizontal center locations with little modification. I think the VP150 matches the M60's better and that is the reason some prefer the M60's over the M80's. Implementing a horizontal M60 or M80 design would not be a bad idea in any aspect.
Signed,
Pondering Axiom owner
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Re: M80 as Center Channel?
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Shawn, I was just joshing. It was just one of those amusing, surprising moments like when you realize it took 50 years for somebody to think of putting wheels on an ice-chest. Yours was an innovative solution. You know (slaps forehead) I coulda had a V-8? Duh points for me. Sorry it came out wrong.
bibere usque ad hilaritatem
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Re: M80 as Center Channel?
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...and .162% hoser. That's actually pretty low, when you thing about it, so don't even think of being insulted.
Insulted??? Bring it on - you guys can't touch me. May I introduce, my wife.
(And I'm a WAY bigger hoser than 0.162%)
Shawn
Epic 80/600 + M3's + M3 Algonquins + M2 Computer + EP125
I think I'm developing an addiction.
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Re: M80 as Center Channel?
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Adding a pair of bookshelves sounds at least like a good temporary solution. M3's are even cheaper than a VP150 and I could always use them someplace else (presence?) later on. I did say temporary though so someone still needs to convince Axiom to create a larger more full ranged center, other wise I might have to vault my ceiling and create an extra foot of vertical space for the M80 or dare I say get smaller screen? (somehow, in my mind, it seems entirely easier and less demeaning to wait on Axiom!)
So, if I do go the route of the bookshelves I would need to compare the M3 and M22. On paper they have the same frequency responses but I've heard around these forums that in actual use the M3 has a little more low end, would anyone like to share their experience on that? I think that if I were to go the route of using bookshelves at the center for SACD/DVDA multichannel (no sub engaged) I would notice the lack of low end more than the midrange.
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Re: M80 as Center Channel?
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Quote:
So, if I do go the route of the bookshelves I would need to compare the M3 and M22. On paper they have the same frequency responses but I've heard around these forums that in actual use the M3 has a little more low end, would anyone like to share their experience on that? I think that if I were to go the route of using bookshelves at the center for SACD/DVDA multichannel (no sub engaged) I would notice the lack of low end more than the midrange.
As you noted they have the same frequency response, so how does the M3 get credit for more bass? It is the hump in the curve that pushes the bass to the front and gives the impression of more bass. I have M22's and they are very good in the bass department and extremely detailed.
Forgot to add that you could try 2 M80's on their sides with the tweeters at opposite ends from each other.
Last edited by jakewash; 02/09/07 04:34 PM.
Jason
M80 v2
VP160 v3
QS8 v2
PB13 Ultra
Denon 3808
Samsung 85" Q70
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 Re: M80 as Center Channel?
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Quote:
As you noted they have the same frequency response, so how does the M3 get credit for more bass?
That really is my question. Or is it the midrange that differs? Anyone own both pairs and done a comparison?
Quote:
Forgot to add that you could try 2 M80's on their sides with the tweeters at opposite ends from each other.
Now theres an idea! Might have to get a few more amps and a additional power line!
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Re: M80 as Center Channel?
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Kevin,
Let me say that the M3s in parallel sound awsome for a centre channel in 5.1. I have not used them in any SACD scenario (yet), so I can't comment on that.
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Re: M80 as Center Channel?
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Quote:
Let me say that the M3s in parallel sound awsome for a centre channel in 5.1. I have not used them in any SACD scenario (yet), so I can't comment on that.
Hutzal, sounds interesting. I'll have to do a back to back comparison between the M3's and the VP150 when the family isn't around. Do you have them above, below, or to the sides of the TV? Together or separated?
Shawn
Epic 80/600 + M3's + M3 Algonquins + M2 Computer + EP125
I think I'm developing an addiction.
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Re: M80 as Center Channel?
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If you go by the graphs of both speakers it’s a drop in the midrange of the M3s that would give one a perception of more bass. In truth the M22s and the M3s have the same exact specs (Freq Resp +/-3dB: 60 - 22 kHz).
Rick
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud
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Re: M80 as Center Channel?
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OK, here's the problem that people are ignoring. M80s are really, really, really deep (and front heavy). Wall mounting would be impossible.
Dual stands, sure.
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!
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Re: M80 as Center Channel?
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Quote:
Quote:
Let me say that the M3s in parallel sound awsome for a centre channel in 5.1. I have not used them in any SACD scenario (yet), so I can't comment on that.
Hutzal, sounds interesting. I'll have to do a back to back comparison between the M3's and the VP150 when the family isn't around. Do you have them above, below, or to the sides of the TV? Together or separated?
I have them above for now, and will be when they are moved downstairs. I am sitting off Axis a bit from the M3s sweet spot, I calibrated for my seat...the M3s are not pointed "directly" at me, and I love the sound of them.
I will do further testing when I get my stuff set up downstairs and I actually have a real sweet spot right in front of the TV and the centre channels.
I have them about 20" apart I think.
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Re: M80 as Center Channel?
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I just came accross this on ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/Axiom-Millennia-M60-...1QQcmdZViewItemOne M60 for $200, in case you're interested in experimenting with an alternative center channel. And, no, I'm not the one selling it. I speak English.
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Re: M80 as Center Channel?
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The "no auctions/sales posse" will be along shortly.
Axiom asks that no one post them here.
Bren R.
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 Re: M80 as Center Channel?
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Oops, sorry. Newbie mistake. Thanks for the warning. Back to lurking only.
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Re: M80 as Center Channel?
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I wish people would read the forum rules.
M80s VP180 4xM22ow 4xM3ic EP600 2xEP350
AnthemAVM60 Outlaw7700 EmoA500 Epson5040UB FluanceRT85
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Re: M80 as Center Channel?
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Oops, sorry. Newbie mistake. Thanks for the warning. Back to lurking only.
*laughs* Usually there's a race between about 5 regulars to enforce that rule. I was just glad I got the chance to beat them to the punch.
Bren R.
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Re: M80 as Center Channel?
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I get the impression from reading this thread that the VP150 is not really a great match for the M80s. As someone considering 2 M80s, 2 EP500s, 4 QS8s and 1 VP150, I'm having doubts about the VP150. Does it sound anemic during movies ? What are it's shortfalls and I should I consider either a centre from another company, dual M somethings bookshelfs or just keep my existing center instead ? What I have currently have has dual 5.5 drivers plus a tweeter. It sounds very good, but I don't like the sound of the rest of the system, hence why I am considering replacing the whole lot.
Acoustic Zen Adagio, Veritas center, Axiom EP500, QS8s, Anthem AVM20, MC20,Adcom GFA7400
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Riker,
I think it mostly has to do with your music vs home theatre preferences. With a 2-sub system you will not notice the lack of full range out of the center as much. My main concern was for listening to multi-channel music without a sub. I am speaking theoretically however, as I do not have all the speakers to reconfigure and play around with like a lot of other members of this forum so Im sure they will chime in as well.
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Re: M80 as Center Channel?
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devotee
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Thanks Kevin,
I have not started a multi channel audio collection yet, so my centre channel requirements are purely for movies at this time. I would say that my movie and music listening is split about 50% each, both are important to me, but it seems easier to get good overall sound during movies than a very good sound during stereo music playback. Movies have obviously different requirements and the emphasis is not on the main front channels, where as is stereo music playback, the main fronts are crucial for really good sound.
I guess what I am saying is that I need a good enough center to get the job done well in movies and I wanted to have a better understanding of the shortcomings of the VP150 in that regards. I do not know how much of a role the center plays in multichannel audio since I am not setup for that from a source point of view.
Acoustic Zen Adagio, Veritas center, Axiom EP500, QS8s, Anthem AVM20, MC20,Adcom GFA7400
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Re: M80 as Center Channel?
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I don't think there is conclusive evidence that the VP150 has shortcomings.
My opinion is that positioning in the room is a very big deal relative to center channel speakers. I mean, that's why they're typically horizontal, right? It's not because that is necessarily "better", it's a compromise relative to real world listening environments. I think 3 identical front speakers is still probably ideal, but I also think it is a mistake to infer that - in all acoustic environments - the VP150 would be somehow suboptimal. Unless you have room to PROPERLY place a bookshelf or floorstander in the literal center position, a speaker specifically designed for alternate placement would be better, no?
I discovered a very meaningful difference moving my VP100 from under to on top of the TV. Don't underestimate the impact of room acoustics.
bibere usque ad hilaritatem
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Re: M80 as Center Channel?
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Hi Tom,
I totally get what you are saying. I have done extensive position experimentation for a long time trying to get more bass out of my main speakers, I actually joined the forum because of those issues back in Nov 06. After a lot of experimentation and building corner "superchunk" bass traps etc..I've finally come to the conclusion that I need to replace my main fronts, I'm just not going to be happy no matter what try to do to the room and placement etc..So, all of this to get back to the Center channel. I am only asking because of what I have read here on the VP150, so I figured I'd ask more questions on it. I have always had my center channels on top of my tv set and I have no plans to change that for a long time.
Acoustic Zen Adagio, Veritas center, Axiom EP500, QS8s, Anthem AVM20, MC20,Adcom GFA7400
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Quote:
I discovered a very meaningful difference moving my VP100 from under to on top of the TV. Don't underestimate the impact of room acoustics.
I absolutely agree with Tom.
In my estimation the Axiom VP centers are extremely capable speakers if time is spent with positioning and tweaking. I don't know about most folks but I can only imagine that a good percentage of people did the same as me...spent a lot (I do mean a lot) of time tweaking with placement and dialing in of the mains while not paying too much attention to the center. Several weeks ago I concentrated solely on the VP150 for several hours, including placing an acoustic panel directly behind the center and I'll be darned if I can find the first fault with the 150. Whether it is the placement, the acoustic panel or the way I dialed it in with the receiver, I don't know what single process achieved the most gain but I'm suspecting it was the combination of all that made this speaker really come to life.
I am now a proponent of the VPs as great center channels and will recommend them to anybody for their system.
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I never had a problem with my VP100. I simply set it on top of the TV, must have been lucky, I guess.
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I have to agree, I just propped the 100 up at the back to angle it down from its lofty perch and have had no problems either, but then again I am not a musician nor a true audiophile. I just go for what sounds good to me and place the speakers wherever I can get away with it.
Jason
M80 v2
VP160 v3
QS8 v2
PB13 Ultra
Denon 3808
Samsung 85" Q70
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0 members (),
585
guests, and
4
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Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
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