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#161397 - 03/13/07 11:47 PM Re: Emotiva LMC/LPA or Outlaw 1070 for M80 setup? [Re: richeydog]
bhull Offline
buff

Registered: 02/21/07
Posts: 46
This Lonnie quote has been circulating around the various forums. Here is my response over at AVS here

Quote:

This was posted by a member over on av123 who apparently got this response from Lonnie at Emotiva about the power specs on the LPA-1:

From 20 to 20 the frequency response and power output is for all practical purposes completely flat and the amp will deliver the rated power across the band.





Thanks for digging that up and posting it here. I have been very curious about this amplifier.

Emotiva saying "for all practical purposes" sure leaves the question wide open to interpretation. He says it will deliver the rated power across the band, but neglects to say this as all channels driven.


Quote:

Now the actual frequency response of the unit is from 10-50Khz @ -1db, thus the power spec can be derived from that as well, but this would just tend to confuse most people. To make the testing go faster in production, the Audio Precisions are set up to run a frequency sweep to very the power response is flat and then it just does a 1K measurement






Yeah this kind of confuses me too. He says they test the entire freq range to verify a flat response, but then says they go back and measure at 1K to make production faster? How is this making anything faster? You already did a full sweep.

If what they want you to believe about this amp is true, it would be total slam dunk over the Outlaw 1070 I have been considering. However, neglecting to state a frequency range for all channels driven power output on the website, along with stating all channels driven power ratings @1Khz only on the last page of the owners manual, and capping it off with Lonnie from Emotiva's very vague and confusing statements has me more suspicious than ever of what this company is claiming about the power output of the LPA-1. Let us also not forget that Audioholics recently had a big gushing review of this amp with NO bench testing whatsoever. Supposedly the reviewer didn't have testing equipment to work with. Why not send the amp into wherever Audioholics does their benchmarking, bench it, and THEN finish and publish the review? To their credit, when this was brought up on the forums, there was a response from Gene at Audioholics saying he would be benching this amp soon. I am very much looking forward to seeing these numbers.

I want to like this amp, the idea of breaking into separates for uner $1k is very appealing to me, the combo would look badass in my HT, there has been a lot of good things said about it by many happy owners...but right now I just don't know what to think about it.


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#161398 - 03/14/07 12:00 AM Re: Emotiva LMC/LPA or Outlaw 1070 for M80 setup? [Re: JohnK]
bhull Offline
buff

Registered: 02/21/07
Posts: 46
Quote:

Mike, if the statement in the quote is true that the power output "for all practical purposes"(whatever that means)is "completely flat" from 20-20KHz, then they should have done the testing under the FTC regs for the full range and simply published it as a 20-20KHz rating




Haha, I hadn't even thought of that.

Quote:

Personally, the 1KHz rating in that quality of a unit doesn't create a significant issue, since the output at 20Hz typically wouldn't be more than about 5-10% lower than at 1KHz, which is a trivial difference.




Considering what you said there, it might have tipped me back into the Emotiva side of the fence.

I will be ready to order an amp within the next 30-60 days, that should be enough time for Audioholics to bench this unit...that will the the ultimate deciding factor between this and the Outlaw 1070.

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#161399 - 03/14/07 09:31 AM Re: Emotiva LMC/LPA or Outlaw 1070 for M80 setup? [Re: bhull]
bhull Offline
buff

Registered: 02/21/07
Posts: 46
So for you M80 owners and people in the know...

Given a choice between the Outlaw 1070 or the Emo combo, what would your choice be? Is there a SQ difference? I would rather have the lower power nicer sounding amp than a higher power lower SQ amp. Where would my $1000 best serve me?


Edited by bhull (03/14/07 09:38 AM)

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#161400 - 03/14/07 10:08 AM Re: Emotiva LMC/LPA or Outlaw 1070 for M80 setup? [Re: bhull]
bhull Offline
buff

Registered: 02/21/07
Posts: 46
Quote:

So for you M80 owners and people in the know...

Given a choice between the Outlaw 1070 or the Emo combo, what would your choice be? Is there a SQ difference? I would rather have the lower power nicer sounding amp than a higher power lower SQ amp. Where would my $1000 best serve me?




I have been further educating myself on the ACD test and how they relate to real world loads. According to what I have learned, would I be better off with the Emo due to the fact that theoretically, it should have much higher headroom, which should make it better for HT use?

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#161401 - 03/14/07 10:20 AM Re: Emotiva LMC/LPA or Outlaw 1070 for M80 setup? [Re: bhull]
bugbitten Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 04/06/05
Posts: 2339
Loc: Madisonville, KY
I believe that you are talking yourself into the Emos.

Just want you to know how little power it takes to run the 80s. My amp's meters show watts used. Normally only 0s on the meter. Sometimes as high as 8 or 9. This at -20 on my Denon 3805 dial and very loud. Master and commander makes it jump to 18-20 peaks. A lot of users remain very satisfied with receivers only.

That said, I believe that my system sounds better with the separate amp than with the Denon alone. It may all be between my ears. YMMV!

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#161402 - 03/14/07 10:32 AM Re: Emotiva LMC/LPA or Outlaw 1070 for M80 setup? [Re: bhull]
bugbitten Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 04/06/05
Posts: 2339
Loc: Madisonville, KY
I do believe that the LMC-1 has issues.

Read Gonk at AV123 forum

You might be better served with Denon 1907, Denon 887 with HDMI or similiar and the Emo amp at your price range.

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#161403 - 03/14/07 11:08 AM Re: Emotiva LMC/LPA or Outlaw 1070 for M80 setup? [Re: bugbitten]
bhull Offline
buff

Registered: 02/21/07
Posts: 46
I got a reply from Lonnie at Emotiva today regarding their ACD power rating:



First off I would like to say thank you for your interest in Emotiva.



The broadband (20-20Khz) power rating for the LPA-1 is 175 watts RMS into 6 ohms for channels 1-5 and 73 watts RMS into 6 ohms for channels 6+7. Also, the Broadband power rating into 4 ohms is 225 watts RMS for channels 1-5 and 95 watts RMS for 6+7. These power ratings are for rated THD levels with all channels loaded and driven simultaneous. Now the maximum THD that can be derived from the amplifier >1% if it is pushed well into clipping.



I hope this helps and has answered your questions. If you have additional questions, please feel free to contact me.



Best regards,



Lonnie Vaughn



Emotiva Support





106 Mission Court

Suite 101

Franklin TN 37067




Having read this, and I have no reasons not to believe him, especially considering the overwhelming good reviews for their products (I have yet to see a single person complain about Emotiva) it would seem at the $1000 price point, the Emo it a total slam dunk killer (LMC glitches aside). Unless I see some damning information in the future, it looks like I will be pulling the trigger on Emo for my HT.

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#161404 - 03/14/07 10:31 PM Re: Emotiva LMC/LPA or Outlaw 1070 for M80 setup? [Re: bhull]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10405
BH, since you asked "Where would my $1,000 best serve me", I'll respond that my view is that you'd be best-served by using perhaps half of it for a receiver whose features meet your needs and using the rest of the money for CDs, DVDs etc. which will make a real difference. Don't be overly concerned about maximum power that you'll likely never use. Don't be concerned at all about "SQ"; as properly controlled blind listening tests have indicated, if the frequency response is flat from 20-20KHZ and the noise and distortion levels are inaudibly low(common these days in even quite modestly-priced equipment), the amplification is audibly transparent and no differences are discernible.
_________________________
-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#161405 - 03/15/07 01:28 AM Re: Emotiva LMC/LPA or Outlaw 1070 for M80 setup? [Re: bugbitten]
richeydog Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 1201
Loc: Fresno, CA
Quote:

I do believe that the LMC-1 has issues.

Read Gonk at AV123 forum




An interesting development has occured after you posted that link. If you continue reading that thread, Dan Laufman has made a statement concerning the LMC-1. He has said all remaining issues have been resolved...and will be making an announcement tomorrow explaining all the details

We will see...
_________________________
*Michael*
AV123 Refugee - X-LS Encore, X-Voce, X-Omnis, Elt-Dpa's
Denon AVR-591
Magnavox NB500MGX BDP


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#161406 - 03/15/07 02:06 PM Re: Emotiva LMC/LPA or Outlaw 1070 for M80 setup? [Re: JohnK]
bhull Offline
buff

Registered: 02/21/07
Posts: 46
Quote:

BH, since you asked "Where would my $1,000 best serve me", I'll respond that my view is that you'd be best-served by using perhaps half of it for a receiver whose features meet your needs and using the rest of the money for CDs, DVDs etc. which will make a real difference. Don't be overly concerned about maximum power that you'll likely never use. Don't be concerned at all about "SQ"; as properly controlled blind listening tests have indicated, if the frequency response is flat from 20-20KHZ and the noise and distortion levels are inaudibly low(common these days in even quite modestly-priced equipment), the amplification is audibly transparent and no differences are discernible.




Its just that I like to have the occasional party and never wanted to worry about having enough power for it...also the fact these are going to be 4 ohm speakers made me want to purchase something that was built with real "Beefy" components. Since you mentioned spending $500, what would you get at that price point? Looking around I probably would go with a Denon.

As for CDs and DVDs, no worries there. A date with the wife most of the time consists of a nice dinner and going to a media store near here and choosing a DVD or two. We have been doing this for quite some time and have a nice little collection. I would say I have at least 10 DVDs we have never eve watched LOL.

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