Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 4 of 12 1 2 3 4 5 6 11 12
Re: Graph testing again, I'm confused, so is mojo :)
SirQuack #169020 05/29/07 06:40 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490
Likes: 116
M
shareholder in the making
Offline
shareholder in the making
M
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490
Likes: 116
Yes, please do try it. I have to admit that I don't like this feature. I thought Direct just by-passed the tone controls and not the LFE management. Denon needs to change this or make it user configurable.

Has anyone come up with any reasons (besides harmonics) why the M80 mids are moving at 10Hz?

Re: Graph testing again, I'm confused, so is mojo
Ken.C #169021 05/29/07 06:51 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 6,379
Likes: 7
axiomite
Offline
axiomite
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 6,379
Likes: 7
The HK equivalent of Pure Direct seems to be "Surround Off" without the "DSP" option selected. On my 630, the Stereo button seems to cycle through :

Surround Off (no bass management, no surround processing)
Surround Off + DSP (bass management but no surround processing)
5 channel Stereo
7 channel Stereo

On the 525, the "pure analog, no digitizing" mode is selected by choosing "Large" for your main speakers and "Surround Off" for the processing mode.

See page 22 of the following link :

Click me, click me !!


M60ti, VP180, QS8, M2ti, EP500, PC-Plus 20-39
M5HP, M40ti, Sierra-1
LFR1100 active, ADA1500-4 and -8
Re: Graph testing again, I'm confused, so is mojo
bridgman #169022 05/29/07 06:57 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 18,044
shareholder in the making
Offline
shareholder in the making
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 18,044
Ar har! Well, I never want to run without the sub, so...

I wonder if I am by accident, then. Odd.


I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!
Re: Graph testing again, I'm confused, so is mojo :)
SirQuack #169023 05/29/07 07:27 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,189
connoisseur
Offline
connoisseur
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,189
Quote:

So basically using Direct or Pure Direct is like having my mains set to "large" even though I have them on "small".




Yes, and not just the mains, ALL channels. Direct mode is bypassing the DAC doing the analog to digital conversion thus making it impossible to apply the bass management settings. And in Randy's case of using the S/PDIF connector the signal is already in a digital form, but the Direct mode setting must still bypass all processor related changes. That's the whole point of direct (or pure) mode really.

As for the M80s driver movement at 10Hz... does it make an audible sound? I guess you may have to turn off the sub to tell. Maybe harmonics, or maybe it's possible there is some woofer output down low but I wouldn't think you'd hear it. The M80 graph cuts off at 20, but there could be some output at 10 Hz but it would be much much lower than the rest. If the mids are moving I would guess it must be a harmonic as the M80s internal x-over would not allow a 10 Hz tone to touch the midrange drivers.


-Dave

M80s VP150 QS8s EP500s
ravenmanor.com/cinema/
Re: Graph testing again, I'm confused, so is mojo
dllewel #169024 05/29/07 07:51 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 18,044
shareholder in the making
Offline
shareholder in the making
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 18,044
10 Hz ought to be visible. Are they moving in and out at the same rate as the woofers?


I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!
Re: Graph testing again, I'm confused, so is mojo
Ken.C #169025 05/29/07 09:27 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490
Likes: 116
M
shareholder in the making
Offline
shareholder in the making
M
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490
Likes: 116
I can definitely hear the M80 with a 20Hz tone. With one watt in, I get 66dB at 3 feet (1m) on axis which matches this graph.

By the way, I know I am putting 1W in because I adjusted the voltage at the M80 to be 2V. The graph above tells me that at 20Hz, the impedance is 4Ohms. So the power is (2^2)/4. So this means the M80 meets spec.

And the mids are moving at about half the rate but are in phase with the woofers. So this means the M80 is producing subharmonics (which may not be unusual for a speaker being driven outside its specified range now that I think about it).

I'm not going to worry about this anymore. The M80s shouldn't experience low frequencies such as these in normal listening.

Re: Graph testing again, I'm confused, so is mojo
Mojo #169026 05/29/07 09:48 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,189
connoisseur
Offline
connoisseur
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,189
Thanks for the detailed informatin Mojo. I believe you are right in that this shouldn't be a problem in normal use.


-Dave

M80s VP150 QS8s EP500s
ravenmanor.com/cinema/
Re: Graph testing again, I'm confused, so is mojo
dllewel #169027 05/29/07 10:47 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490
Likes: 116
M
shareholder in the making
Offline
shareholder in the making
M
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490
Likes: 116
And I should add that we shouldn't be playing 10Hz tones through the M80s for long periods of time. The voice coils could heat up and vaporize.

Re: Graph testing again, I'm confused, so is mojo
Mojo #169028 05/30/07 02:17 AM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,840
Likes: 13
shareholder in the making
OP Offline
shareholder in the making
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,840
Likes: 13
Here is the difference between using Stereo versus Direct mode running the same test tones. Prior to running the tests I verified that I had my mains and sub calibrated to about 75dB. Also, I remember Jakeman saying that the sub should be 4dB lower to achieve the same SPL, so I turned that down a bit. It is interesting that the higher freq's are a litte higher overall.

Anyway, it appears that most of the changes below 80hz may be a result of using stereo mode versus direct mode.




M80s VP180 4xM22ow 4xM3ic EP600 2xEP350
AnthemAVM60 Outlaw7700 EmoA500 Epson5040UB FluanceRT85


Re: Graph testing again, I'm confused, so is mojo
SirQuack #169029 05/30/07 02:49 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490
Likes: 116
M
shareholder in the making
Offline
shareholder in the making
M
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490
Likes: 116
It appears that the M80s are re-enforcing the bass from the 600. I'll have to try this with my system. I don't have an explanation for the 5dB difference in the "highs".

BTW, does the software that you are using have the capability of measuring reverberation time and impulse response?

Page 4 of 12 1 2 3 4 5 6 11 12

Moderated by  alan, Amie, Andrew, axiomadmin, Brent, Debbie, Ian, Jc 

Link Copied to Clipboard

Need Help Graphic

Forum Statistics
Forums16
Topics24,940
Posts442,457
Members15,616
Most Online2,082
Jan 22nd, 2020
Top Posters
Ken.C 18,044
pmbuko 16,441
SirQuack 13,840
CV 12,077
MarkSJohnson 11,458
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 145 guests, and 4 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newsletter Signup
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4