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Re: Graph testing again, I'm confused, so is mojo
SirQuack #169050 06/10/07 04:33 AM
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Yeah Randy, interesting about the trim adjustment. I ended up with "full", but in a room much smaller than yours, of course. As to that big dip around 120Hz, as I commented in the previous reply, if that's a driver/floor bounce which would result from a little over 2' distance, there might not be a practical positioning change to eliminate it. I suppose as a temporary experiment you could raise the M80s a couple feet on some sort of support to see if that changed things.


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Re: Graph testing again, I'm confused, so is mojo
SirQuack #169051 06/10/07 01:28 PM
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Randy. That is a great looking curve compared to the first one you posted. You have really done a nice job of blending the sub with the mains to achieve a smooth response around the crossover point. That is critical to achieve seamless integration with your speakers. Another improvement was eliminating that huge null you had in the 80hz area which was a serious problem. Your bass below 40hz is on average 10db hot but many people prefer that "house" curve in the lower octaves. I'd prefer it flatter but in the tradeoffs you have had to do its a terrific outcome which will sound excellent in action movies.

The trim control on the EP subs is an excellent calibration device and its utility is very position and room dependent. Its impact will vary considerably depending on where you have the sub positioned relative to the mains and your phase. I always test it along with the other controls every time I tweak my system. Glad to see you put it to good use.

I'd say its time to put your feet up and enjoy the fruits of your labour. To improve your response much further will require a second sub, then you can look forward to wieghtlifting two heavy subs around your room.


John
Re: Graph testing again, I'm confused, so is mojo
SirQuack #169052 06/10/07 01:37 PM
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Here is what my room currently looks like after I don't know how many calibration sessions. This was achieved with dual subs and acoustical treatments using heavy velvet curtains, bookshelves, panels and bass traps. Notice that not much equalization was required in the final tweaks and those required cuts and no boosts.




John
Re: Graph testing again, I'm confused, so is mojo
jakeman #169053 06/10/07 02:08 PM
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Thanks John and John,

It was very strange, if I tried to reduce the dB's of the sub to get them a little lower and not so "hot", sometimes the outcome would result in worse results.

I will post the "flat" response graph later today so you can compare. The "flat" curve was a little lower in the low end and not as "hot", however it did not seem to be as flat overall.

I really wish I could snap my fingers and have everything as perfect as possible.

Also, keep in mind, this graph was ONLY from the primary seat in the front row. I may move the meter to see what the other seats look like.


M80s VP180 4xM22ow 4xM3ic EP600 2xEP350
AnthemAVM60 Outlaw7700 EmoA500 Epson5040UB FluanceRT85


Re: Graph testing again, I'm confused, so is mojo
SirQuack #169054 06/10/07 03:40 PM
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>>It was very strange, if I tried to reduce the dB's of the sub to get them a little lower and not so "hot", sometimes the outcome would result in worse results.

That might mean your mains are still pumping out bass in that frequency range and you are "reducing the cancellation" rather than "reducing the bass". Only a guess, of course.

I second the motion to kick back and enjoy -- from the primary seat in the front row, of course. You're getting some pretty good curves there. I strongly suggest that you not graph from any other positions until you have lots of time to kill.

Only thing I would check before popping the beer is whether the fronts of your mains are just over 2 feet from front or side wall, and move them a bit if so -- particularly if the two distances were both just over 2 feet.

Last edited by bridgman; 06/10/07 03:46 PM.

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Re: Graph testing again, I'm confused, so is mojo
bridgman #169055 06/10/07 05:37 PM
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Hey John the 3rd.

Yes, I'm sure some of the problem is the distance of my 80's drivers from the front and side walls. Right now they are about the same, around 27" or so. The problem is I don't have a lot of room to work. My screen is 10ft wide, my front wall is 15ft wide. That gives me 2.5ft on each side. However, I have the superchunk bass traps taking up some of the corner space.

There is only about 8" of front wall showing between the screen and each superchunk. With the rear ports filtering low bass into the room, not sure I want them aiming right at the superchunks, and sucking all the bass out.

I'll try to work more on repositioning, toeing in/out, and pulling closer/farther from the front wall to see if the nulls come up a bit.


M80s VP180 4xM22ow 4xM3ic EP600 2xEP350
AnthemAVM60 Outlaw7700 EmoA500 Epson5040UB FluanceRT85


Re: Graph testing again, I'm confused, so is mojo
SirQuack #169056 06/10/07 07:49 PM
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>>Right now they are about the same, around 27" or so.

Close enough to 2'4" for government work

That's great. At least we have a pretty good idea what is causing that 120 Hz dip now. Park it in the back of your mind, sit back, and enjoy.

Last edited by bridgman; 06/10/07 07:51 PM.

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M5HP, M40ti, Sierra-1
LFR1100 active, ADA1500-4 and -8
Re: Graph testing again, I'm confused, so is mojo
SirQuack #169057 06/10/07 08:11 PM
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Just curious Randy. What effect did altering the crossover point have on your FR curve?


John
Re: Graph testing again, I'm confused, so is mojo
bridgman #169058 06/10/07 09:51 PM
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Bridgman, now you know when you give me ideas I can't just sit down and relax and enjoy.

Ok I played around with my 80's position again. I was able to pull them out from the front wall some more, as well as move them closer to the side walls. Now they are 22" from the side walls and 28.5" from the front wall. The best toe-in results were aiming about a foot behind my head.

I have also gone back to "flat" mode, as the manual states these modes increase the response above 33hz, it was just to much, so back to "flat" mode JohnK.

Jakeman, when setting the crossover to 60hz, the results were similar to "half" mode on the trim. From about 40-80hz, the entire graph shifted upwards about 3-5dB's.

Right now I have all speakers to small, 80hz crossover, phase at 180deg. The phase was the one that interested me. I was always under the assumption that when the sub wash up front in-line with the main woofers, that 0deg was the norm. When having the phase on 0deg it increased my bumps and valleys in the 40-50hz ranges.

Oh well, here is my latest results, notice my higher nulls have been improved thanks to bridgman's advice.

Here I thought I was done....



Here I think I'm about done.



Jakeman, do you think the feedback destroyer or sms-1 would be worth me considering?


M80s VP180 4xM22ow 4xM3ic EP600 2xEP350
AnthemAVM60 Outlaw7700 EmoA500 Epson5040UB FluanceRT85


Re: Graph testing again, I'm confused, so is mojo
SirQuack #169059 06/11/07 01:03 AM
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>>I was always under the assumption that when the sub wash up front in-line with the main woofers, that 0deg was the norm.

Having both cones move in and out together is the norm. Depending on your equipment, that might be 0 or 180.

Last edited by bridgman; 06/11/07 01:04 AM.

M60ti, VP180, QS8, M2ti, EP500, PC-Plus 20-39
M5HP, M40ti, Sierra-1
LFR1100 active, ADA1500-4 and -8
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