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Re: Graph testing again, I'm confused, so is mojo
SirQuack #169060 06/11/07 01:12 AM
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Randy, the big question is, can you hear a difference.


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Re: Graph testing again, I'm confused, so is mojo
SirQuack #169061 06/11/07 03:13 AM
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Randy. You may have done this already but if you haven't go back and check your sub and speaker SPLs with your metre. That is always a good thing to do anytime you change something in your system...and you have made many changes. From the looks of your graph you may need to raise volume on your sub a couple of db to level match them.

You could go with an equalizer but only if you are through experimenting with placement and acoustical treatments. Before trying equalization, a second sub would be my suggestion albeit the equalizer is a cheaper option.


John
Re: Graph testing again, I'm confused, so is mojo
jakeman #169062 06/11/07 03:22 AM
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Thanks John,

I'll have to re-check tomorrow night as the kids are in bed and their room is above the HT area.

I believe I have the sub and mains at 75dB, so from what you've talked about the sub would really be 77.5dB on the graph above. I have the denon about -7dB and the gain on the sub around 8o'clock if memory serves me well.

I usually use the Denon built in pink noise and manually adjust. I should have the Avia II one of these days, it will be interesting if it has any cool calibration features.

Randy


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Re: Graph testing again, I'm confused, so is mojo
HomeDad #169063 06/11/07 05:44 AM
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Ditto HomeDad's comment. There comes a point where squeezing that next bit of flatness into your system's frequency response comes puts you over the edge into the "listens to the equipment more than the music" category. Just watch your step.

Re: Graph testing again, I'm confused, so is mojo
SirQuack #169064 06/11/07 10:48 AM
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True RTA is quite accurate with SPL and it doesn't need the same adjustment as a RS SPL metre. Your bass response is generally a couple db below 75db, except for a couple of peaks. It looks like you may need to raise sub volume slightly. Its just tweaking at this point and its looking very good overall.

I agree you should let your ears be the judge and its nice to know your reference settings.


John
Re: Graph testing again, I'm confused, so is mojo
pmbuko #169065 06/12/07 12:12 AM
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Quote:

"listens to the equipment more than the music" category



I've certainly seen a ton of measuring. Where did the listening come into play?
I must've missed that thread page.


Still all interesting, no matter how fanatic the goal. My limit would have been reached long before SirQ's though.
Someday i will find a laptop and use it to measure the response in our media room. Someday....


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Re: Graph testing again, I'm confused, so is mojo
chesseroo #169066 06/12/07 02:13 AM
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Randy is still working on the equipment to allow double-blind listening tests while moving speakers and installing room treatments

Until then the best we can all do is make a series of changes using response curves to identify likely candidates for listening -- then listen for a while and see if the results match the graphs. I think it's fair to say that in Randy's case the process is still going because some of the receiver settings resulted in audible results different from measured results, and only now are all the pieces fitting into place.

Or maybe he is crazy. You'd have to ask his neighbors. We know what his wife would say.


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Re: Graph testing again, I'm confused, so is mojo
bridgman #169067 06/12/07 02:20 AM
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If Randy wants to do it right, he should first establish the transfer function of his ears. Then he should adjust the response of his room to compensate for his aural inadequacies.

Until he does this, he certainly won't earn my respect .

Re: Graph testing again, I'm confused, so is mojo
bridgman #169068 06/12/07 02:21 AM
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Quote:


Or maybe he is crazy. You'd have to ask his neighbors. We know what his wife would say.




Yup.





John
Re: Graph testing again, I'm confused, so is mojo
jakeman #169069 06/12/07 03:03 AM
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I think I am going crazy. Just as I thought I had everything right, and learning a little about calibration/placement...I'm starting to doubt I know what the heck I'm doing.

Tonight I was listening to various music CD's to see what I could hear after the above adjustments. While I'm currently in the Jackel and Hyde phase of my amps breaking in, I noticed something weird, not related. By the way, the amps are really starting to open up and sound unbelievable.

Back to the issue...when listening to a few of my favorite songs I noticed certain strums of the bass guitar were lacking. As soon as I switched the PHASE switch back to 0deg, Wowwwwwww there was the bass I was used to hearing.

We are talking a huge difference when monitoring the spl meter and switching back and forth on the phase. What confuses me is that my graph was not as flat when using the 0deg phase, 180 gave me better results. However, for output and better sound 0deg seems to be better.

I would have to really bump up the dB's in 180 Phase to get similar results, then everything is not calibrated at 75dB anymore.


M80s VP180 4xM22ow 4xM3ic EP600 2xEP350
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