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#170770 - 06/21/07 09:24 PM M60 + Sub
tamzarian Offline
buff

Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 57
Loc: Ottawa
Greetings All:

I finally received my M60's and even with my current setup, which will or may cause you to laugh yourselves silly, I think the system sounds fabulous. However, I do believe there is the potential to make it sound better.

The setup contains the following equipment, which I'm going to start upgrading, so I'm looking for advise for candidate components:
1. Amp: Soundstage One Hybrid Tube Integrated Amp (25 wpc, Chinese knock-off), which I'm keeping.
2. M60's - that's a no-brainer.
3. 1985 Philips & 1990 Sony CPDs - I need to upgrade.
4. Speaker Wire - I've read so much on speaker wire that I'm ready to buy a reel of it and hang myself. I'm a believer (based on research that I did (5 - 10 yrs. ago) that for audio, you can't do bettter than 99.9% oxygen-free pure copper with non-oxidized leads, of a gauge appropriate to suit the load you're driving. I've been told by "experts" on other Forums, and sales people, that I'm an idiot. Any opninions.
5. Speaker/Amp Interconnects - I have always used raw sanded copper for the speaker/amp interconnect, which I resand if I ever remove them. I know connectors are aestheicaslly more pleasing, and that's my preference, but I'm letting the technical solution be the arbiter here. As for RCA jacks, the ones advertised by Axiom look well made. I used to use Dayton Audio. Any opinions?
6. Sub-woofer - I play at moderate home levels in a multi-use small room (20' x 20' x8'), and obviously don't expect nor do I want to, shake windows or walls. With the M60's should I consider a sub, and would it improve my system performance if I did get one?

Thanks All

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#170771 - 06/21/07 09:30 PM Re: M60 + Sub [Re: tamzarian]
Mojo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 3292
You should buy an Axiom EP500 or 600 sub if you watch movies. If not, a sub is a luxury.

You should not pay more than $1 per foot for your cable. Visit your local Home Depot. For your room dimensions, 12 gauge is more than adequate. Let the flaming begin .

I don't know what "raw sanded copper" is so I can't comment.

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#170772 - 06/21/07 09:57 PM Re: M60 + Sub [Re: tamzarian]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10395
Tam, a couple comments: if you listen to music with substantial low bass content(e.g. pipe organ, etc.)then even with the relatively good bass of the M60s, a good sub will be a significant benefit. This is also the case in movies when especially strong low frequency effects(LFE) such as explosions, etc. are present.

On the speaker wire, there's not a scintilla of solid evidence that regular lamp cord of an appropriate gauge doesn't do the job as well as anything, regardless of cost. Although they're not "idiots"(especially if they make money by selling magic wire)and certainly shouldn't call you that, the term would fit them more closely if they stubbornly refuse to acknowledge basic audio principles of power transmission and the results of properly controlled double-blind listening tests. If you haven't previously studied it, this explanation by a veteran audio professional covers the topic well. As to why such stubborn resistance in this matter still amazingly creates controversy, the concluding paragraph in his "The Big Picture" section summarizes it.
_________________________
-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#170773 - 06/21/07 10:23 PM Re: M60 + Sub [Re: Mojo]
tamzarian Offline
buff

Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 57
Loc: Ottawa
1. I'm on dial-up, so my responses are quite slow.

2. I'm gaining some confidnce - I've only ever used lamp cord (zip wire).

3. I've also been told that in regards to a sub, SVS is the only way to go.

SVS Subwoofers

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#170774 - 06/21/07 10:27 PM Re: M60 + Sub [Re: tamzarian]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13337
Loc: Iowa
SVS makes good subwoofers, as does HSU, as does Velodyne, as does Axiom, etc..
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#170775 - 06/21/07 10:39 PM Re: M60 + Sub [Re: JohnK]
tamzarian Offline
buff

Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 57
Loc: Ottawa
JohnK:

1. I've got a lot of J S Bach, but haven't listened to it for years - I needed a change, so now it's jazz.

2. Believe it or not, I found the reference you cited, two days ago, and am soon about to read it. It looks like it might put an end to a lot of fairy tales provided that it gets to the right people.

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#170776 - 06/21/07 10:50 PM Re: M60 + Sub [Re: tamzarian]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10395
I appreciate Bach, but I'm a lot more into the Romantic rather than the Baroque eras. If you need a change, I'd suggest that Rachmaninoff, Holst(The Planets), Ravel, etc., among the discs that I've listed here in the past, are certainly a major change from Bach.
_________________________
-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#170777 - 06/21/07 11:12 PM Re: M60 + Sub [Re: JohnK]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13337
Loc: Iowa
I agree with John, he brought me back to have an interest in classical.
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#170778 - 06/21/07 11:45 PM Re: M60 + Sub [Re: SirQuack]
Mojo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 3292
If you plan on listening to a pipe organ, you will need an EP600 or equivalent.

And if you plan on feeling a subcontrabass clarinet, you will need one of these.

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#170779 - 06/22/07 09:30 AM Re: M60 + Sub [Re: tamzarian]
Hutzal Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 2102
Loc: Hollywood. (Canadian @ <3)
Quote:

1. I'm on dial-up, so my responses are quite slow.

2. I'm gaining some confidnce - I've only ever used lamp cord (zip wire).

3. I've also been told that in regards to a sub, SVS is the only way to go.

SVS Subwoofers




The Axiom DSP subs (EP400, EP500, EP600) are more musical than any SVS offering. The EP500 also outperformed the SVS Ultra box sub (the 12" version) in a double blind test with multiple AVSforum members.

The EP500 is a great sub for the money and you get a digital DSP controlled amp.
_________________________
Producer | Composer
www.robbhutzal.com

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