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#173877 - 08/08/07 06:26 AM Re: M80 tweeter damage - may need a separate ampli [Re: JohnK]
haylo75 Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 131
Loc: Kansas City, MO USA
John,

Thanks for the tips. I will try the M80s tonight and see how they sound a normal volume levels on the 777. I am most likely going to return the 805 and save my money for a dedicated processor. There are other issues intrinsic to the model aside from the "real" problems I've discussed here. I don't relish the fact that it runs at a pretty high temperature, plus a ton of users are experiencing loud pops when switching amongst audio streams via HDMI. Initial research indicated this was an issue only when connected to a PS3, but I can replicate it with my Toshiba HD-XA2.
_________________________
A: Epic 80 * 600 / Integra DTC-9.8 / A1400-8
V: Samsung HL-S6187W / Tosh HD-XA2 / PS3 / Oppo 970HD

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#173878 - 08/08/07 06:23 PM Re: M80 tweeter damage - may need a separate ampli [Re: JohnK]
Mojo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 3292
Hey guys,

Sorry I'm falling behind on the posts. I'm away from home visiting my very ill father (and dealing with poor medical management). JohnK is right. 65dB is very quiet and it sounds like there is something very wrong with your receiver.

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#173879 - 08/08/07 09:58 PM Re: M80 tweeter damage - may need a separate ampli [Re: Mojo]
haylo75 Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 131
Loc: Kansas City, MO USA
Mojo,

Thanks for following up. I hope things with your father work out as well as possible.

I talked with Onkyo and they agreed with our collective assessment. I've since ordered an A1400-8 from Brent, so that will be coming (soon?). It's a brand new product and I know generally speaking how those things can go (i.e. my 805), but I have faith in Axiom. I'm going to return the 805 to CC as I do more research on a pre-pro. In the interim I'm back to using my 777, which is humming along just fine.

I appreciate everyone's help as I sort through this. I've been a member of a lot of forums over the years, and there is a lot to be said for the small, tightly knit communities like I see here.
_________________________
A: Epic 80 * 600 / Integra DTC-9.8 / A1400-8
V: Samsung HL-S6187W / Tosh HD-XA2 / PS3 / Oppo 970HD

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#173880 - 08/08/07 10:56 PM Re: M80 tweeter damage - may need a separate ampli [Re: haylo75]
CV Offline
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 11140
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
I agree about this board. It's easily the best community I've found online.

And Mojo, I hope for the best for your father, too.
_________________________
SuperGrand UltraDeluxe (Plus Extra More)

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#173881 - 08/09/07 04:25 PM Re: M80 tweeter damage - may need a separate ampli [Re: haylo75]
Hutzal Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 2102
Loc: Hollywood. (Canadian @ <3)
Haylo,

mdrew has been thru alot of AV recievers, and he has rated the RX-V661 in very high regard. I think it may serve as a good pre-pro. I know that my RX-V659 is awesome, although has no HDMI.
_________________________
Producer | Composer
www.robbhutzal.com

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#173882 - 08/09/07 08:27 PM Re: M80 tweeter damage - may need a separate ampli [Re: Hutzal]
haylo75 Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 131
Loc: Kansas City, MO USA
Thanks, I haven't looked at Yamaha too much in recent times, so getting into their current line will be fun.

I stopped by the Rotel dealer on the way home from work this evening. Turns out they are a big B&W, Vandersteen and Martin Logan dealer. I live in Missouri, so frankly I feel too many of the local dealers carry M-L. The manager demo'd their flagship room with the pretty nice sounding B&W 802D's hooked up to Classe gear. I am a fan of the kevlar cones... I have Focal PolyKevlar's in my car. The Classe gear was nice, but it sure looked overpriced to me.
_________________________
A: Epic 80 * 600 / Integra DTC-9.8 / A1400-8
V: Samsung HL-S6187W / Tosh HD-XA2 / PS3 / Oppo 970HD

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#173883 - 08/13/07 11:12 AM Re: M80 tweeter damage - may need a separate amplifier [Re: alan]
louis Offline
newbie

Registered: 08/13/07
Posts: 1
I don't know anything about M80s.
but I enjoy Onkyo 900 with Westlake BBSM8 which has nominal 3.8ohm with min 2ohm. I just set Onkyo to 4ohm, no any problem even I turn vol gain to +10dB! before Westlake, I used Tannoy which is 8ohm.

my sp

doubt smallest Denon, say 1508, can drive M80s at 4ohm?

Quote:

JC is absolutely correct about not using the Onkyo 805 (or any Onkyo AV receiver) to drive the 4-ohm M80s and I regret that Brent suggested you could do so. As JC has advised you, the 805 will be fine driving the other channels (a 6-ohm load presents no problems for any AV receiver; it's as benign as an 8-ohm load) but you will need a separate 2-channel power amp for the M80s if you continue to use the Onkyo.

In Brent's defense, it's extremely misleading for Onkyo and some other manufacturers to suggest that their receivers will drive 4-ohm loads, THX "certified" or not. Moreover, the manufacturers (almost all of them) use the totally bogus "dynamic power output" spec to mislead consumers into thinking that an AV receiver will not only drive 4 ohms but even produce hundreds of watts into as low as 2-ohm impedances. The receivers will do so for a tiny fraction of a second, then shut down!

The only "dynamic" power output spec that has any meaning is "dynamic headroom" into 4 ohms, which is expressed in dB. That spec is seldom stated because the receiver's amplifier is rigorously stressed in that test.

Ever since I joined Axiom five years ago, I've been warning against using Onkyo AV models for the 4-ohm M80s (based on Axiom customer experience and lab tests by some magazines) as the Onkyos either go into severe current limiting when set to 4 ohms (producing perhaps 30 watts per channel or less), or they shut down.

As I've explained in previous posts, the AV receiver brands that Axiom has found able to drive the 4-ohm M80s without severe current limiting or shut-down are: Sherwood Newcastle (which we have bench-tested and which Axiom sells on-line); Denon, Harman/Kardon, B&K, Rotel, NAD, and McIntosh.

The AV receiver brands to avoid if you want to get the 4-ohm M80s are: Sony, Kenwood, Onkyo, JVC, and Yamaha (except for one or two models).






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#173884 - 08/18/07 02:52 PM Re: M80 tweeter damage - may need a separate ampli [Re: louis]
haylo75 Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 131
Loc: Kansas City, MO USA
I've been out of pocket for the most part as of late. A lot has been going on on the home theatre front, mainly in getting things set up for my girlfriend's new condo. I found a great deal on some B&W speakers that I couldn't pass up. I picked up a pair of DSM602 S3's, a LCR600 S3 to be used as a center, and an ASW600 sub all at 40% off retail. They're powered by a Rotel RSX-1057 which I picked up at the same time. I've been playing around with both her speakers and mine, hooking both up to the Rotel receiver. I have to say, Rotel means business when it comes to their product. I'm very pleased with the sound quality, power and build quality. There are some features I'd like to see that aren't there, but I'll take the solid amplification I've experienced over a couple more codecs, etc. I currently have my Axioms hooked up and the Rotel is really driving them all very well. What a great receiver.

On a side note, I auditioned a 2 channel RMB-1080 amp for my M80's last weekend and it ran them cleanly and louder than I'd ever like to listen for an extended period. I nevertheless opted to purchase an Axiom A1400-8, which I hope is coming soon!

Have a good weekend, all!
_________________________
A: Epic 80 * 600 / Integra DTC-9.8 / A1400-8
V: Samsung HL-S6187W / Tosh HD-XA2 / PS3 / Oppo 970HD

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#173885 - 08/18/07 03:32 PM Re: M80 tweeter damage - may need a separate ampli [Re: haylo75]
Wid Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/22/03
Posts: 6720
Loc: The Peoples Republic of Il.
The RB 1080 is a powerhouse of an amp and it does indeed drive the M80s without breaking much of a sweat. I have however got it to run pretty darn warm when cranked up pretty loud. I guess it should be expected with the db levels I sometime listen at.
_________________________
Rick


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud


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#173886 - 08/18/07 06:20 PM Re: M80 tweeter damage - may need a separate ampli [Re: Wid]
haylo75 Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 131
Loc: Kansas City, MO USA
wid - I was able to get the 1080 to run hot as well... listening at a steady 105dB with peaks well north of 110dB I felt like I'd been to a concert after that listening session. It would have probably run even hotter if I had it installed in my entertainment center... I was just running it with open air on all sides when I had it for the weekend.

What kind of levels are you talking?
_________________________
A: Epic 80 * 600 / Integra DTC-9.8 / A1400-8
V: Samsung HL-S6187W / Tosh HD-XA2 / PS3 / Oppo 970HD

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