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#17496 - 08/15/03 02:04 AM Reccomended Reading...
Haoleb Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/25/02
Posts: 1488
Loc: Maine
So ya know... i spend alot of time on different audio forums and there are soo many discussions about this and that and yada yada yada.. But some people just dont have a clue about audio. Even though they might THINK they do. (not me i hope!) and well, i got the book called, The complete guide to high end audio by Robert Harley and this is the best book for anyone in audio. It costs around 30 bucks and is WELL!!! worth it. It contains information covering nearly everything audio from properly setting up your speakers to how to listen (yes you would be surprised)and so on. And when i was reading the thread about hearing differences in amps etc i cant help but think that some people Dont know how to listen! And dont have good audio "values" Anyway, id reccomend that each and every one of you out there who is into 2 channel or HT also (but theres a seperate book for that) to pick up this book. I promise you wont regret it. i hope that theres a copy around the axiom factory because if there isint there should be! Its like going into a library that doesnt have a dictionary!
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#17497 - 08/15/03 03:35 PM Re: Reccomended Reading...
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16280
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
I'm curious. What are Robert Harley's credentials? If we're going ot be doing things his way, it's good to know such things.
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#17498 - 08/15/03 03:45 PM Re: Reccomended Reading...
Semi_On Offline
aficionado

Registered: 09/18/02
Posts: 737
Loc: Scottsdale, Arizona
Spoken like a scientist!

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#17499 - 08/15/03 04:26 PM Re: Reccomended Reading...
Haoleb Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/25/02
Posts: 1488
Loc: Maine
Its not doing things his way, its just someone sharing the knowledge they have gained over years of experience. You might be thinking. yeah another book about audiophile junk. no. this is a book for the beginners and experiences listeners

" Robert Harley is Editor in cheif of the absolute sound and the perfect vision magazines. and author of home theater for everyone and a practical guide to todays home entertainment systems his more than 500 published product reviews and articles on high-quality music reproduction have helped thousands of music lovers improve their hi-fi systems"

And.
"These are just a few of the secrets you will learn

High end sound at low prices how to do it cheap and still do it right.

How to find the one loudspeaker in 50 worth owning.

How to make your speakers sound up to 50% better at no cost to you.

Why all 100 watt amplifiers dont sound the same

Five system setup mistakes and how to avoid them

How to avoid buying yesterdays technology"

Im just sayin, go to your local bookstore and try and find it, i bet after flipping through it your gonna walk out of the store with it. It goes into detail on everything imaginable from how amps turntables and speakers work to how to explain the things you hear when listening to equipment.
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#17500 - 08/15/03 06:12 PM Re: Reccomended Reading...
MIKEY Offline
devotee

Registered: 07/23/02
Posts: 331
Loc: ORANGE COUNTY CALIF
OK, How does one make ones speaker sound 50% better, with no cost to ones self ?? And have you done so yet ? And most important, did it work ?
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#17501 - 08/15/03 06:34 PM Re: Reccomended Reading...
Haoleb Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/25/02
Posts: 1488
Loc: Maine
Its UP TO 50% better. I havent read through the whole book. its a rather large book and i just havent had the time yet. But i think thats the section on setting up the speakers in your room. but im not going to re type 20 pages of stuff so if you wanna know you'll just have to go read the book. Im not here to argue with people about stuff. im just simply saying that this is a good book for anyone interested in audio and its intersting reading and you would probbly learn something new thats all. If nobody goes out and buys it. hey not my loss but just as people reccomend music because they enjoy it, im reccomending this book because I enjoy it.
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#17502 - 08/15/03 06:49 PM Re: Reccomended Reading...
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16280
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
First, you have to have crappy speakers that you keep in a closet. Next, take the crappy speakers out of the closet and set them up in your best room (acoustically speaking), making sure that the woofer is a different distance from the 3 nearest room boundaries.

Ta da! 50% improvement at no cost to you!
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#17503 - 08/15/03 07:04 PM Re: Reccomended Reading...
Haoleb Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/25/02
Posts: 1488
Loc: Maine
actually..... i remember seeing somewhere. someone did infact have junk speakers stuffed in a closet lol.
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#17504 - 08/15/03 07:06 PM Re: Reccomended Reading...
Semi_On Offline
aficionado

Registered: 09/18/02
Posts: 737
Loc: Scottsdale, Arizona
In reply to:

OK, How does one make ones speaker sound 50% better, with no cost to ones self ?? And have you done so yet ? And most important, did it work ?




There's a lot of basic speaker setup ideas that most of us probably figured out on our own or learned fairly quickly but I see screwed up on a regular basis. Things like sticking a speaker against the wall, right down in a corner, not pointed at your ears, etc.

It's probably just basic setup stuff though quantifying it to specifically 50% is just marketing.

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#17505 - 08/15/03 07:35 PM Re: Reccomended Reading...
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10395
Brandon, I suspect that you may not have studied too much highly technical audio material because if you had, you wouldn't be very impressed with much of Bob Harley's book. The basic stuff about setting up a system is okay, but you probably knew most of that already. Then he gets out of his depth in attempting to explain technical information he's copied from other sources but either doesn't understand or deliberately twists in an attempt to justify the high-end myths which make up much of the book. I borrowed it from the library a few years ago and haven't felt the need to refer to it since.

Some of his colleagues in high-end writing greeted the book warmly, but more knowledgeable readers greeted it with derision. There's a mildly unfavorable review here and I'm familiar with the Audio Critic review it mentions, but unfortunately apparently it isn't available online. Dr. David Rich, a professor of electrical engineering in NYC, after describing a few of the numerous errors he found, concludes as follows: "The conclusion is simple. If you do not understand chemistry and physics, you may think you can turn lead into gold. If you do not understand electronics, you may think amps and preamps sound different and color the sound more than loudspeakers. The Complete Guide to High End Audio is an important document because it makes it clear that the "experts" in high-end audio are not experts at anything but B.S. and charlatanism". Following Dr. Rich's review the editor commented in part: "Would you have considered it possible that a 450-page book, potentially a sourcebook for future practitioners, would be lovingly prepared and published with nothing but the most egregious technical misinformation in it?"

It's no more likely that Ian or others(note Alan's dismissive comment of Harley a few weeks ago) at Axiom would use this as a source of information than a surgeon preparing for a delicate operation would seek to consult with a witch doctor. Do yourself a favor and use a more reliable source of information.


Edited by JohnK (08/15/03 07:38 PM)
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#17506 - 08/15/03 07:47 PM Re: Reccomended Reading...
sushi Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 1490
Loc: Dallas, TX
In reply to:

this is a book for the beginners and experienced listeners



Brandon,

I believe that you and I both belong to the category of experienced listener with a decent amount of knowledge. I understand you haven't had time to really get at the book, but skimming through it, have you already found any nice tidbits that you never knew or thought of before?

If your answer is yes, I will go buy the book.


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#17507 - 08/15/03 07:57 PM Re: Reccomended Reading...
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16280
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
If this were the WWF, I believe your reply would be called a "smackdown." Yowch!


Edited by pmbuko (08/15/03 07:58 PM)
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#17508 - 08/15/03 08:01 PM Re: Reccomended Reading...
Haoleb Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/25/02
Posts: 1488
Loc: Maine
:-( .. well like i said, i havent read through the whole book ive just read a few pages here and there but i agree that he isint the last word on the more techical stuff. because simply, he reviews equipment, he doesnt design and build it. But this is the first and only book ive read so far on the whole audio subject and i figured that it was a decent source of information covering a wide variety of topics. But i will certainly be more weary of what i read when i get to those topics.
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#17509 - 08/15/03 08:09 PM Re: Reccomended Reading...
Haoleb Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/25/02
Posts: 1488
Loc: Maine
lol . smackdown.... i was thinking the same thing. lol no thats ok. i can admit if im wrong. i have learned some things from here. most of it is just sorta reinforcing what i already knew, but there are aspects of audio like a record player and its parts that i am not the most knowlegeble on. And some stuff that i might read in someones post or review when they are describing the sound and i might be like wtf is that supposed to mean. but i mean, go to the library and check it out and see what you think for yourself. But the 30 bucks was worth it for me to fully understand ( or so i hope ) how a servo sub works and about analog stuff and like that. Alot of it is basics that im sure most of us know but it still has some things that i did not fully understand.
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#17510 - 08/15/03 09:36 PM Re: Reccomended Reading...
MIKEY Offline
devotee

Registered: 07/23/02
Posts: 331
Loc: ORANGE COUNTY CALIF
No worries mate.. I was just funnin with ya.. We have all heard those adds for the newest greatest thing for your car, and that it will get 50% better gas milage on one thing, and 30% on another, etc, etc.. And by the time you add it all up, you would need to pull over every couple of miles to dump out some of the gas, to keep your tank from over floweing, eh .. haha..
As a matter of fact, I was interested in a little review of one or two items from the book.. Like Sushi posted, if you really come up with something that you think works, let us all know.. We are ALL pretty much chomping at the bit to find another excuse to spend money on something to do with our stereo/home theater gear... !! (Even if some of us won't admit it !) hahahaha

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#17511 - 08/16/03 02:36 AM Re: Reccomended Reading...
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16280
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
I certainly hope everyone already has cable elevators...



No, these are not mine.
_________________________
"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

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#17512 - 08/16/03 03:05 AM Re: Reccomended Reading...
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17782
Loc: NoVA
And we wonder why true audiophile systems always look like crap...

Are those black boxes signal enhancers or something? They look like something out of Star Trek, or maybe a faith healer's props...
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#17513 - 08/16/03 04:25 AM Re: Reccomended Reading...
ZeN Offline
veteran

Registered: 07/09/03
Posts: 125
Loc: San Diego, CA
I cant believe it... on the one hand, we hear all speaker cables are *for the most part* no different, then we hear all cables are different, and *X* brand is the best, and now this... Cable elevation!

I mean how long till our shielding has/needs shielding - or our cable elevators need elevators.

Maybe someday our speakers will each be suspended in mid air, supported by anti-gravitational fields enclosed in an Anti-Standing-Wave force shield - only then can we have the cleanest sound

Maybe I'm waaaayyyy off track, these things just might be the most important piece of my HT system, and I'm just too ignorant to know any better - then again, I doubt it.


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#17514 - 08/16/03 05:42 AM Re: Reccomended Reading...
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10395
Yes Peter, but I was a bit distressed looking at the picture, since I fear that the audiophile isn't enjoying all the sonic benefits he deserves because the positioning isn't sufficiently precise, as suggested in this wonderful site .
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Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#17515 - 08/16/03 01:09 PM Re: Reccomended Reading...
Haoleb Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/25/02
Posts: 1488
Loc: Maine
clearly a severe case of audiophilia nervosa.
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#17516 - 08/16/03 03:48 PM Re: Reccomended Reading...
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10395
Well, I was hesitant to point this out, for fear of causing a panic, but it has to be done. If the "electromechanical grunge" at floor level described in the site linked in my previous reply is harmful to copper wire and insulation(and I wouldn't doubt it for a femtosecond)how much more harmful it must be to the far more sensitive human skin. Fortunately the solution is both obvious and simple and here is an early example of an audiophile taking the necessary precautions before entering his listening room. It's clear from the expression on his face the confidence he has that he won't be experiencing the harmful effects that would have occurred if he listened with his feet closer to the floor.
_________________________
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Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#17517 - 08/16/03 05:21 PM Re: Reccomended Reading...
tinfoilhat Offline
local

Registered: 07/26/02
Posts: 206
Loc: BC
Thank goodness you pointed me to this site. I have been wondering lately if my Shakti Stones were still working up to par. Now I know that I can replace them with DissiBlocks / Dissiplates and recapture that final level of resolution.

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#17518 - 08/17/03 01:42 AM Re: Reccomended Reading...
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16280
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
Here's some info on those black boxes.
_________________________
"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

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#17519 - 08/17/03 02:12 AM Re: Reccomended Reading...
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17782
Loc: NoVA
Amazing what people can talk themselves into. I like the bit about "new source material" How the &*!% can he tell a difference when he's never heard it before?!
_________________________
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!

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#17520 - 08/18/03 06:48 PM Re: Reccomended Reading...
MIKEY Offline
devotee

Registered: 07/23/02
Posts: 331
Loc: ORANGE COUNTY CALIF
Are those Right channel or Left channel cable elevators ??
And did you get the "Golden Gate" Extend-O-Rama bridge attachments ?? Allows you to run up to 3000 feet between each elevator, without the wire sagging back down to the floor..
I for one really love the 'close line' effect it has on my pets when they try running behind the speakers !...
Hey, wait a minute.. I don't HAVE any pets ???? THEN WHAT WERE THOSE THINGS ?!?!?!?
_________________________
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#17521 - 08/18/03 06:56 PM Re: Reccomended Reading...
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17782
Loc: NoVA
Oh, THAT's why my feet hurt all of the time.
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