Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners Toddlers and Towers

OK, I know there are other people with kids around here. I'm not sure how I know that...

Did you do any childproofing of your towers? Any problems with the little demons tykes pulling them over onto themselves?

Not for me so far, but kids in the area of the speakers is the main reason I opted out of the M82 in favor of the M80s. I could just picture somebody bumping into the speaker and the M22 falling on top of one of them.

The first time I left the grilles off the M22s my oldest son, when he was 2, poked the aluminum part of the driver with a pointy object and it now has a very small ding in it. Luckily it didn't hurt the sound quality. Ever since I have drilled it into them that they are not part of their toys and are not to be touched; even their friends have had the riot act said to them just in case.

Oh, I fully anticipate and am prepared for driver damage. It's not like I don't have spares...

I forgot to mention to avoid the spikes, as I found them to be very tippy with them on, so I went with the rubber feet.

I have the rubber feet on, as I have hardwood floors, so that's no problem. I'll have to try tipping them again myself, although my wife says that that's not a valid test, as I am not <3 feet and suicidal.

Funny enough, I found that spikes mounted around the circumference of the bottom helped keep the little crawlers off the speakers....

There is always Gorilla glue.

When sticking things in ports came up, I knew gorillas couldn't be far behind.

The speakers are pretty smooth and not much for them to grab onto should the child start to topple over and reach out to stop the fall.

I found I just had to make sure when ever they got near the speakers, the first few hundred times, I always told them not to touch and please stay away, eventually it sinks in.


I know I have seen some people building stub walls around the entertainment units/speakers to keep the kids at bay.

>>The speakers are pretty smooth and not much for them to grab onto should the child start to topple over and reach out to stop the fall.

... and an upgrade to High Gloss Cherry should remove the last bit of "grip".

What's needed is a leeeeeetle moat....with leeeeeetle baby alligators.....

No, no. You need to implement countermeasures!

No kids yet, but when they come....

Kids= a good excuse to upgrade from M22 on stands to the M60, M80, M100 (it'll be out by then, right?)

I say that you put some of those "electrified pads" around them. You know, the ones that are designed to keep pets off of the couch... A few zaps, and they'll learn.

Can't go wrong with razor wire!

just wall mount 'em... with really big screws

That's a bit harsh. It might damage the speaker finish!

I'm thinking these responses are a kind of karma... serves me right for being silly on other people's threads.

I have to agree with JakeWash. I have a 9 month and 2 year old and as soon as they get near my m80s, I tell them "NO" in an authoritative voice. My 9 month old likes to push on the grill cover, so I tell him "NO" and give him a gentle tap on the hand touching the grill.

My oldest has learned not to touch them and my youngest is slowly learning.

The M80's are pretty heavy and would take a lot force to knock over. However with small children (I have 2, a 4 year old and a 2 year old) never say never.

Murphy's Law prevails!!!

You need to watch them (speakers and kids) like a hawk, keep grills on at all times. If the kids don't know the grills come off, it's easier. If kids get within 200', um.... I mean 2' of speaker explain to them in a very loudly (this shows you mean business) that speakers are worth more than they are and it’s cheaper to ship kids than M80’s.

If that doesn't work you could always suddenly and quickly turn up the volume to 110db SPL when they are standing too close and literally scare the ____ out of them. That should make them afraid of said speakers and keep them away in the future.

Although this method is very effective and depending on the amp you use, you may need to check speaker for damaged tweeters. This of course defeats the purpose of having the kids near the speakers in the first place. So be very careful!!!

Oh, the receiver is behind doors, at least.

The problem is that the M80s are in the living room (18x19) where he plays, and the M50s are in the computer room/his room/something whatever it is where he currently sleeps (and plays). It's going to be hard to keep him away from them, and there's no where to have him play where there aren't speakers.

Warning, the above method may backfire on you, as it is only a short term solution. Once small children turn into teenagers and remember that speakers can do 110 dB SPL, they they will take over your speakers, listening to their music at deafening levels and driving you out of the house.

Again, care must be taken!!!

The M80s should be ok out in the open but having the M50s in his room is just asking for trouble. They are afterall in his room and I will bet he will soon be thinking everything in that room is fair game unless you have extra eyes or have cloned yourself; not even a video camera can help, by the time you get there the damage will be done. I guess you will have to spend equal amounts of time in the living room and the bedroom with constant reminders to him, eventually he won't touch anything, at least not until he gets to be a teen

Heh... if everything in that room is fair game, he also gets my digital piano, both desktop computers, all of our camping gear (in the closet), etc, etc, etc...

By the time he's designating everything as his (and can do something about it), I imagine we will have changed everything anyway.

Like I said make sure to spend some time in there with him to ensure he knows what is his and what not to touch, same as any where else, once they are able to get out of the crib and are into beds, that noise coming from the bedroom late at night might not be what you think it is.

Yeah, he's only 7 months right now, but since he's starting to get mobile, my wife is really concerned about him pulling stuff over on himself. I'll worry about property issues and sleep later...

I have a 3-year old son, very active, into everything. He's always spent more time tormenting my electronic equipment than my speakers, which he's had mild amusement from. Mind you, we just moved from a NYC apartment to a house in the 'burbs, so his environment has changed. Plus, I just changed out my M22s on stands to M60s.

He made a habit of using the port on my SVS sub as storage for his cars and trucks. I've pulled about 40 of them out over the years. That seems to have stopped due to the position of the SVS in the house.

The other day, he pressed in one of the drivers on one of my M60s (through the grill). I got that back to normal using a vacuum cleaner. He never caused any damage to the M22s, but he would press on the grill occasionally.

He's broken the tray on my CD player several times, but it has been fixable each time.

Shall I continue... But seriously, I love him too much to ever get too angry, but he knows that he's not supposed to touch the speakers or electronic equipment.

As to the M60s, when I first got them, I installed the spikes as our family room has carpeting. But I found them way too unstable with kids around, so I put on the rubber feet. Still not as solid or stable as I would like, but better than the spikes. I don't have 100% confidence about the stability of the M60s, but I do not think they are an accident waiting to happen. A little more heft or stability would have been great though.

I tried tipping an M80 last night. It didn't fall over (possibly because of the low center of gravity with all those woofers) but it did hit the bookshelf and cause the decorative objects on top to wobble menacingly. Those, of course, will probably have to be put away or secured with quake-hold. Not a bad idea anyway out in CA.

Yeah, but we're FAR from "even"



1. They're not like cows, eh?
2. The speakers weigh more than you. Come on!

This is actually a pretty simple engineering problem.
1. Make sure the speaker is exactly where you want it
2. Take out the bottom woofer.
3. Drill a hole through the bottom of the speaker and into the floor. Maybe 2. Or more.
4. Put 1.25 globs of silicone in said hole(s)
5. Drive a screw and washer through the hole, mechanically fastening the speaker to the floor.
6. Replace the woofer

Sometimes, you guys really overthink things.

Speaking of overthinking.....

Why not use the existing threads on the bottom to install a "wide footing" with some aftermarket spikes?

Brilliant!

That's actually kind of what I was thinking about doing, Mark...

You guys stole my idea! Only I was thinking of an actual full base not out riggers. A solid piece of wood that could be have routered edges and stained to match the speaker finish.

I had contemplated bolting the M22 to the top of the M60 using the threaded inserts to prevent the M22 from falling off the top if bumped into.

Jeez! I like the idea, but completely smashing the M80 above the bottom woofer is uncalled for. The speaker is more dangerous than ever with those jagged shards of wood now.

Hence, not needing the moat, alligators, razor wire, etc.....

If your toddler is anything like my 14 yo was after he started walking, it won't be long before your speakers are on their side, or on top of your kid. And while I'm thinking about my boy in his younger days, if you have a cat (and cat box), you should plan to keep it somewhere the kid can't get to it now, before it's too late. I’m still scared from seeing that sight….and there was that medicinal smelling “cookie” he found in the men’s bathroom….. OMG…. No more kids for me. Good luck Ken.

All you need to do is spread the footprint of the speakers about two inches out in four opposite directions. Two inches will triple (or more) the resistance needed to tip them over.

Heh... the cats/cat boxes will be quite an issue, I suspect. OK, guess i get to go to the hardware store and look at pieces of metal or something.

OK, lets see if adding 4 inches on each side of the speaker 'base' will help prevent tipping... ( I don't think 2" would be sufficient)

Here are my assumptions:
you have M80's with carpet spikes so sliding is not considered
Tipping sideways is considered since it will be easiest to tip that way.
The average 2 yr old boy is 3 ft (link), so lets assume they are pushing or pulling 2.5 ft off of the ground.

Here are my results:

As is:
A force of 8.99 pounds will be required to tip the speaker when pushing horizontally on to the speaker 2.5 ft from the ground

With an additional 4" of 'base' added to the bottom:
A force of 16.57 pounds will be required to tip the speaker when pushing horizontally on to the speaker 2.5 ft from the ground.

Conclusion:
a base increased by 4" on all four sides will require about 1.8 times the force to push/pull it over.


Next we can calculate the force the speaker must withstand in order to resist tipping due to the momentum of a toddler in full sprint...

do you think a 2 yr old running down the hall and hitting a speaker at full sprint will impact the speaker with a force greater than 16.57 pounds?

I say we need more than a 4" base

perhaps the shock collar isn't such a bad idea after all!

Perhaps I should post pics of my living room...



Now, this isn't quite accurate any more, not the M50s. Everything is shifted to the left by about a foot, so the M80s are right up next to the bookshelves, and I've got some stuff stacked in the right corner. So it would be hard for him to tip them completely over; it's more likely that he'd tip them enough to knock over the bookshelves on his head.

I think your calculations are in error. Please show your math. This is a test..... (don't forget centerline moment) I’ll verify your math with Autocad. just kiddin...

Ken, if it were me, I'd pick up some 3/4" X 2" X whatever length you need oak boards. Drill holes through the boards that you can run some screws through. Mount them to the speaker and place the rubber feet under the ends of the boards. Move the feet in / out from center and experiment with tipping force. After you get the lengths figured out, remove the boards, cut to length and put whatever edge profile on them you like (whatever router bit you might have). Then stain / finish however you want.

You know what, afer seeing your room I wouldn't be that concerned, the child is going to go after all those books,cds, dvds you have on the shelves and the doors of the tv stand. My oldest was fascinated by the glass doors we had on our unit. With the speakers at the front and near the shelving the chances are very slim anything will ever happen as he will most likely grap the nice hand holds on those shelves and pull them over long before he pushes over a speaker I can picture him wondering around and pulling himself up on the shelves and as long as the grilles are on he won't think twice about them and leave the speakers alone, it would be the shiny drivers that would instantly attract him to the speakers should the grilles ever be off. Oh ya, I would keep the top of the speakers free of all items for awhile, especially that plant, really nice for grabbing, but you already now that.

mdrew, what is missing from my calculations?

for the 'as is' calculation



At the instant before tipping all of the weight will be resisted by the side that the speaker is tipping towards, so no reaction is shown on the left feet.

summing moments about point A (clockwise +):

P*(30)-56.8*(9.5/2)=0

solve for P and you get 8.99lbs

for the 'extended base' calc I just changed the equation to
p*30-56.8*((9.5/2)+4)=0
This assumes that the base extension is some kind of a point load similar to the carpet spike.

Edit: i did just realize that I used 9.5" for the width of the m80 in my calcs, not 9.25 as shown correctly in the sketch- this would of course be a 'conservative error'.

using 9.25" p changes to 8.75 and 16.33

Ken:
I wish you had posted a photo earlier. The solution is MUCH easier to envision now......

your pivot point is moved away from the base terz. think of the extended base as outriggers. or did you compensate for that and i just missed it in your formula?

for the extended base version my pivot point was moved 4" to the right- making the moment arm for the weight of the speaker 8.625"

(9.25/2) + 4"= 8.25

I think I should have left the pivot point the same... is that what you are saying?


Anyway, looking at the photo I do not think any action is needed.

Not only are my nephews not allowed to touch the speakers, neither are my friends! I have no problem telling them, "Do NOT lean on the speaker!" Unfortunately, one of the speakers extends into the room and people like to treat it as an armrest. It makes me very nervous! Am I paranoid, or what?!

You need to take into account that the speakers are not rectangular prisms, and the tipping axis is not perpendicular to the front and rear faces. Get to it.

As for baby-proofing in general, I'd agree that the speakers should be handled after the shelves are bolted to the walls. Additionally, I'd consider a gate btw the living and dining/kitchen rooms to take care of access to drawers/cabinets, and cat facilities.

For my second son we had to put those magnetic locking devices on all the hazadous, drawers cabinets, etc. He would not leave them alone, no matter what we did or said. I wish I knew what his fascination with them was, other than he could see us going into them and he wanted to get into them too. For a full year and a half he was constantly pulling at them, then, suddenly he lost interest. My oldest son never went into them once he was told to stay out of them, 2 different kids 2 different responses.

Ooooh - Magnets! There's an idea!