Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Warner Bro's Goes Blu-ray Exclusive

A sad day this is...

Warner goes Exclusive

I bought into HD DVD because of cheap hardware pricing, and I really did think HD DVD would win this thing. I am done buying HD DVD's and my HD-A20 will now turn into a dedicated upconverting DVD player.

I will not be entering the HD disc content for at least another 2 years...I guess on the bright side, I only bought around 5-6 HD DVD thus far, so I am not out that bad.

I may get into Blu-ray if LOTR comes out on blu exclusive after May 2008, that would be something that would get me to buy, otherwise I think HDM is dead, it will be another Laserdisc.

Yep. The Format War is over, and Blu-ray has won. I think this gives them a 70% exclusive market share, so its just a matter of time now.
I too invested in HD-DVD, but only as an add-on for my XBOX 360, since I wasn't prepared to make any real decision until after the war all played out, and also until all the audio/video standards got finalized, as I'll get a new receiver then too.

R.I.P. HD-DVD
2006-2008

Woo hoo...for once i picked a winner.....


I keep saying this, blu-ray is going to win this war because it has a cooler name. Blu-ray rolls off the tongue and has a color / "sense" (optic) that you can associate to it. HD DVD just sounds blah.

Also, apple backs blu-ray......

Interesting. They finally pulled the trigger. I have Toshiba XA2 and Samsung 1400. I didn't to get both, but when Pixar went HD DVD only, I was sorta/kinda forced into buying it. It's a great upconverting DVD player so all is not lost. In the meantime, I can enjoy both formats!

Got a blu-ray from 6th ave., Panasonic recommended by Consumer's Report. Quite nice. Net Flix has many Blu-Rays. This and a pair of M-80s on the way. I'm too high!

Isn't it just a matter of time before there are quite a few cheaper universal players out there so those who bought HD DVD or want to upconvert their old dvd's aren't completely screwed? (Well, other than buying the HD DVD player).

Although I have both I preferred HD DVD, I'm not that trusting of Sony and what they may do, at least I figure they will continue to update the PS3, but who knows what they may do in the future to protect their Dvds and how many old Blu-ray players will support the changes. I'm still glad I purchased the AX2 as it is still the best upconverting player I have seen.

Blud Grass Man, I've been studying the various Blu Ray players out on the market. The reviews on the Panny's seem to do much better than the Sony models. Much faster load times and better overall quality with less glitches.

You are correct my man, Panasonic is rated higher, and not the 30, but the cheaper (nor cheap) 10. The sound and visual are top drawer, but I can tell it has a way to go in development. It is way too complex for the average person. The manual is beyond me and has features that I would never need. Then again, there are other things beyond me also.
Speaking of Panasonic. I got a 50 inch plazma 700u. OH, MY,GOD!
Consumer reports stated it has the best picture they ever tested.
Well I guess. I studied them as much as I have speakers; I concur. I studied the Pioneer and like the Panny. Save alot of money over the Pioneer. Sorry to ramble. The Panny rocks.
I would wait on the blu-ray if poss. the prices are coming down.
Go R.P.!

I still like HD-DVD for a variety of reason, but I've already planned on getting a "universal" player in a couple of years even with my HD-DVD player purchase just 2 months ago. It only cost me $98 and gets me in to HD movies faster, so even IF HD-DVD doesn't stick around, I've not feeling like I am out anything. Without the $98 HD-DVD player, I would have to wait another year or so for a cheap Blu-Ray player.

Besides, LG and Netflix just teamed up to build a combo HD-DVD & Blu-Ray player that supports streaming and potentially downloadable movies from Netflix for no additional cost than you pay now for streaming movies to your PC. Netflix is claiming that they are going to "significantly" increase the number of movies available via download (their current selection of 6000 or so movies for download is kind of weak) and will have HD titles available. No real-world details yet, but it would a nice device if they get all of the technical details worked out.

So is HD-DVD dead? Heck no. Neither format has "everything" so this could still drag on for some time. It is too bad that the consumers are rarely considered except for the sole purpose of more money. These "agreements" between movie studios and the hardware/software manufacturers is getting old quick!

50 inch plasma, nice. I'll keep my 130" projection screen.

Ooh, buzz kill.

Well, that's disappointing news. Oh, well. I have no problem continuing to support HD DVD.

Looks like the $98 dollars + one movie I invested into HD-DVD was a bad move. Luckiy I have been using netflix and not buiying HD DVD's (for this very reason)

I will wait a while, but looks like I will be buying a bluray player.

If I can get a good bluray player that can upconvert standard DVD's as good as my A2 I will be unhooking that thing completely.

Maybe I can still sell it if I hurry

I just have to say that these are two of the weakest reasons that could possibly account for Blu-ray's success. If names were an indicator, how did the Nintendo Wii do so well? EVERYONE was making fun of its name, and it seems to be doing fine.

And what does Apple backing Blu-ray have to do with anything? It's not like we'll be able to watch Blu-ray Discs on iPods or iPhones, and their computer business is still a drop in the bucket.

It seems fairly obvious that it comes down to studio support and install base, which Sony was able to secure by launching the PS3 with Blu-ray as standard and slapping the consumers with two forms of DRM to make movie studios feel a little more secure.

If Blu-ray really is where the industry heads, then I'll follow, but I think it's wrong to simply hand them their victory, even after this news.

Tis indeed sad news.

Thanks for starting this thread. I just got back from overseas today and have been planning for weeks to go out and buy an HD DVD player tomorrow as a late Christmas present for myself. I just might have dodged a bullet thanks to you.

Thanks,
Dean

I too have dodged a big bullet. I was going to try to get the toshiba a35 so that I could get in on the free 7 hddvd offer this month. I just can't wait anymore. I don't want to buy any new releases on DVD since I want them in high def. So this is great news that we most likely finally have a winner (even it was Sony). If this format war was to drag on any longer it would have killed the whole thing for everyone.

Now is a great time to go with a blue ray player with Warner Bros going exclusively Blue Ray. Too bad that there isn't a decent one that is only around 300 to 400 dollars like with Toshiba. The entry level Sony blue ray doesn't even decode all of the new audio formats even though it sells for around $500 list price. I want my Blue ray player to do any excellent job upconverting DVD's. I guess I'll just have to wait for the Denon. Does anyone know when the Denon Blue ray player is coming out?

- Nick

I honestly think its kind of sad. I have a Toshiba XA2 and a Samsung 1400. The audio and video performance are the same, but the HD-DVD is far less buggy. The build of the machine is much better too. Oh well at least I have both.

Well, the system here is format neutral with an A35 and a BD30. I am probably within the timeframe where I could still return the A35.

Right now my gut is saying no. Why?

From a DVD upconverting standpoint, the A35 does a better job than the BD30. That's a benefit to the hundreds of reg DVDs I have that I am in no rush to replace with a hi-def counterpart.

While the majority of studios are now Blu-Ray exclusive, there are quite a number of desireable titles that are only on HD-DVD. Not sure how soon those that are HD-DVD exclusive will switch over.

There are a fair amount of HD-DVDs already out there (new and used). With this news, and with a little time, I suspect that the prices on those discs will bottom out. (Alread on some forums I see some loking to get rid of their HD-DVDs. I am in talks with a couple of them looking to get the discs for $4-$5 a piece).
Seems like an inexpensive way to grow the library. Going forward, at least for myself, if I have a title on HD-DVD, that is fine with me AS long as the cost of acquisition is good. No need to replace it in the library with its Blu-Ray counterpart.

Your thoughts?

I, too, will keep my ear to the ground for huge super-sales if it comes to that. Still need to see exactly how it will play out.

My Oppo does a MUCH better job at upconverting than my D2. I will keep my D2 and add a BD player when the price point comes into alignment with HD-DVD players. Of course this news from Time Warner could make BD player prices hold firm knowing that consumers may decide to go that route over HD. No need to lower price if competition is going away. But I also am suspicious of TW claims that "Consumers have clearly chosen Blu-ray" and that "A two-format landscape has led to consumer confusion and indifference toward high definition..." Data can be manipulated to show just about anything you want. Last info I saw showed that BD player sales were higher than HD but only due the sales of PS3 game units. But that sales/rentals of HD-DVD were topping BD. There goes that data manipulation again.

Scott

I wouldn't even mind the prices of Blu-ray players if the spec was finalized. Why anyone would buy standalone Blu-ray players at this point is beyond me.

And yeah, it wasn't consumers choosing Blu-ray. Consumers wouldn't have chosen user-unfriendly DRM. Consumers wouldn't have chosen a format war. Consumers wouldn't have chosen a higher price point for content. It's nothing to do with consumer choice. If that was the case, they would drop HD discs and focus only on standard DVD. They're basing their decision on many other factors before that of what the consumer wants, though I suppose press releases wouldn't be press releases if they were honest.

Huh? Don't forget that you also get 5 free HD-DVDs with that. Plus, for a hundred bucks you have HD movie capabilities. Can't do that with Blu-Ray yet, so I would say that it was far from a bad move. You are doing like me and using NetFlix (although I do own 5 HD-DVD movies plus have the 5 free ones on the way). Sure the 5 free movies aren't the greatest, but I've heard of people taking them back to stores and getting others or getting store credit, so if you factor that in, you may be able to have your HD-DVD play, the one movie you actually paid for, and still come out with a couple of extra bucks in your pocket.


It amazes me how quickly some people jump on and OFF of a bandwagon. Nothing against you specifically terzaghi, and I mean absolutely no disrespect. I just used your quote, but a lot of people are jumping ship. Amazing the power of Sony's marketing... Reminds me of BOSE...

I don't entirely feel like it was a complete bad move, but In the whole scheme of things the purchase was not needed.

I have enjoyed at least 15 HD movies on it so far, so all has not been lost.

I have not received my 5 free HD DVD's yet... I have no idea how long that takes- I sent off for them right after walmart had the $98 dollar sale- however long ago that was...?

Anyway- I am thinking about getting the Panasonic DMP-BD30 bluray player.

It can be had for $425 or so on amazon. I think it passes bitstream truehd and DTS HD to allow the receiver to do the decoding. This will work fine as I have the 3808. I personally don't care if the decoding of the HD sound formats is done in the player or the receiver, as long as I can play them I don't think it matters. If I let my receiver do the decoding at least I can get the TrueHD and DTS HD lights to light up on my receiver

Also, I just bought the DVE calibration DVD on HD DVD but it is a dual layer disc- So the standard def side will still work if I sell my HD DVD player. strangely enough, the Hd DVD/SD DVD combo disc was cheaper then the regular DVD when I bought it.

I liked HD DVD better then bluray, but I will buy whatever plays the movies that are comming out.

EDIT: I just realized that the panasonic bluray player mentioned above has PIP capability (bluray 1.1) but no ethernet port for web enabled features (bluray 2.0).

I find it odd that I can get a $98 HD DVD player with both of these features, yet a $400+ bluray player has only one.

It's not over yet, Warner Bros is not making the change until April and much can happen between now and then. Good movies are still being released on HD DVD so we'll see what happens in the next few months, I'll continue to support HD DVD until it is officially dead.

And death for either side won't be for a couple of years at a minimum. LIke I said, by the time anything like that even comes close to happening, you will be able to get a player that does it all anyway for less than $200, so no loss. Just sit back and enjoy what you've got and don't worry about tomorrow.

I do find it interesting that some people on a variety of forums (not just here) were so happy when the purchase of a $98 HD-DVD player saying that becuase of it they could get into HD movies sooner, and now they are all up in arms about "wasting" $98 and are willing to spend hundreds more to get Blu-Ray they weren't willing to spend more than $100 a couple of months ago.

People are just weird!

It's an evolving format. But I bought it because it's not *THAT* much money - for me, I'm fully aware others may be in a different situation. After all, my first Sony DVD player was about $500.

IMO, Bluray is not yet ready for prime time. I put up with the little quirks because I want to enjoy the movies now.

Same reason why I buy computers *KNOWING* in six months there will be something faster, better, and cheaper.

Hey, I'm enjoying Blu-ray movies with a PS3 right now. I just don't think standalone players offer enough over a PS3 to buy one at this point. I think the main benefit would be to be without the PS3's fan noise.

And having a movie format be an evolving format kind of defeats the purpose of having a standard in the first place. It's different from computers, where there's a wide range of purposes. These players are for watching movies, and incidentally, for playing music on, too. Are you telling me that these functions are too much to have the standard in place before the first units reach the market?

And yes, I've invested heavily into both formats, as I have no major financial obligations, but I was thinking in terms of a more casual consumer, who just wants a player that will play all of the discs he buys. I think that consumer would be better served buying a multi-purpose device like the PS3, where they can get value beyond just movie playing. Once they stop having profile revisions, I'm all for standalones, as I myself want more audio output options.

The PS3 is a great machine. I just wanted to hear DTS:M, and I’m not all that certain the PS3 will ever decode that format, so I bought a Panasonic BD30. I’ve been very impressed with the BD 30 so far. It’s not quite as fast as the PS3, but faster than the A35. And, it’s silent. The PS3 is the noisiest machine I have in my HT.

Michael, I've been reading a lot of reviews on the Panny 30 and watching for a good deal. It appears to have a load time much faster than its Sony Bluray buddies as well. I just wish I could find it cheaper. I wonder if it would work with my Sanyo Z2, unlike the A2 HDDVD which would not.

Yeah, the PS3 is the loudest thing I have, too, (besides the speakers, of course), and even though everyone badmouths the Xbox 360's fan noise, I find the PS3's more intrusive.

It's hard telling if it will work with the Z2, seeing how it’s DVI and DVI has known compatibility issues with many new HD devices. You might want to ask at AVS. There is an "official" thread for this machine on the BR player forum. I suspect with the amount of posts to this thread that someone will be able to tell you.

One thing to consider if you do buy this machine is it WILL NOT decode the new formats and output as analogue. It is limited to Bitstream output via HDMI only. So unless you have an audio processor that processes the bitstream formats via HDMI 1.3, you will be disappointed.

I bought mine from Value Electronics for $425. It really has been an excellent player so far. I’ve not had ONE quirk or problem and have played over twenty BR movies through it. I also know that it has the hardware on board to enable it to be upgraded to profile 1.2. Not so sure about 2.0, but 2.0 don’t add anything I’m interested in….

Hey, I thought that you were going to use that "limitation" of your Z2 to upgrade to a new Z2000 or something?

I don't have a PS3, but our XBox 360 sounds like a small jet engine and runs very hot - I've been told this is normal !?

Scott

MY 360 is by far the loudest piece of electronics I own. The back of it feels like a hair dryer.

My Wii is nice and quiet... Oh, wait, it can't even play DVD movies (yet) let alone HD content....

Seriously though, both are loud machines, that is part of cramming so much high-performance hardware into a box... It runs hot, VERY hot... I almost got an XBox 360, but my plans were to put the whole thing in the closet behind my home theater equipment rack (the wireless controllers worked through the wall)... Then just use an external drive.... Oh wait... I'm off topic again....

Sorry.

Hey, I also want to say for the 10,000th time that any of my comments are not aimed directly at anyone here, or Blu-Ray users, just a frustration with Sony, and big-business in general.

I almost considered getting a PS3. But I already have 360 and Wii so I knew i wouldn't use the gaming side of PS3 much. Since it doesn't decode as many as Samsung 1400, I went with that.





I agree 100%. For casual non tech-savvy users, Bluray is absolutely not ready.




*IF* you play games. And that's a *BIG* if for a lot of people. Especially when you consider that most new games are $55USD or more.

Toshiba “Firmly Committed” to HD DVD Despite Warner Move
Press conference at CES reveals "disappointed" company after Warner switch.

http://www.cepro.com/article/toshiba_firmly_committed_to_hd_dvd_despite_warner_move/

I just thought I'd jump in to add my 2 cents. Without going into too much detail and rambling on about how much I detest Blu Ray, I hope the HD DVD camp has something up their sleeve (can you tell yet that I'm an HD DVD supporter?).

One major reason is this...the spec for HD DVD is finalized and has been since its release. Blu Ray on the other hand is still changing. Any players that were manufactured prior to the new Blu Ray spec (including the newer dual format players) can't play some of the newer Blu Ray discs. I don't know about you guys, but if I buy a player then I expect to be able to play all discs that claim to be the format of my player.

I bought a few 'must have' HD-DVDs I have really enjoyed a lot of HD rentals now that the local Blockbuster started getting a shelf full in stock. My $200 A2 also up converts much better than my receiver used to do in the past.

So I'm still pretty happy even if Blu Ray totally wins in the next year or so. I only went into HD at all because the price dropped sub 200. Life on the bleeding edge.....

HOWEVER, I'm still hoping HD-DVD pulls their goalie and kicks Sony's but. Why? probably not for why you think. For one, I never liked Sony overpricing their gear over similarly featured and similar quality items simply because they 'used to' have a technological advantage back in a day. A day that they long let slip away. I could live with that on it's own. Business is business. but, does anyone remember when they got caught loading a Trojan piece of software on Sony label CDs that snuck it's way onto your computer and tried to prevent you from making copies of Sony CDs.

That burned me! Not so much that they tried to do DRM but that they tried to sneak it in under the radar. Loading something on my PC without asking me makes it a Trojan = Virus. A virus is still a virus even if it uses hardware (CDs) to propagate.

I still have some old Sony product but I won't buy more. If Blu Ray wins, I will not stubbornly refuse to use the entire technology but I won't be playing them on a Sony player to minimize their return from me. (Yes, I know they will still be making money from the technology)

Rant over....

I've compared the noise between my ps3 and my brother-in-law's Xbox360 and I find them about equally loud when the ps3 is on its max fan speed. I've noticed that if my room temperature is below 77 degrees that it stays on the low speed, where I can't even hear it, so it's really not bad at all, my Toshiba A2 is almost louder!

Yeah, I had problems with Sony cordeless phones, DVD player, XBR flatscreen CRT, receiver, etc. The only Sony thing I really like is my Sony Dream machine clock radio.

But I like you will get a Blu Ray player when the dust settles and have always thought the marketing of the Blu-ray name and the storage capacity compared to HDDVD would win. The only wildcard was the adult film industry backing HDDVD and it appears that is not influence this fight much longer.

Still gonna enjoy my Panny S77 upconverting player until this war is final and prices come down.

I'm new to the whole home theater, surround, HD stuff - recently bought my first hdtv, receiver, axioms of course and a ps3. I haven't had any quirks with the PS3; movies and games seem to play just fine. The menu comes up like the regular DVD's and all that. I'm curious as to why you think it's not ready for most people? Is there something that different about blu-ray that I just don't see? Also, I see mention of the PS3 or blu-ray quirks...can someone elaborate?

Like I said, I'm new to all this so maybe I'm just ignorant to the issues because I have nothing to compare to.

The "average" user honestly doesn't know squat about HD, the multiple formats, blah, blah. They just want movies and they want them at 1080p on their 42" plasma (I hope that you guys could hear the sarcasm in my "voice")... The "average" user buys into the hype of what their local Best Buy sales guy tells them without doing any real research. They waste their money on things that they don't really understand, but get frustrated when things are just "point and click" like their slim-line 8.1MP digicam. HD-DVD and Blu-Ray are NOT that simple. I know that for those of us with even a little technological experience find them simple to use, the "average" user still has a VCR plugged in at home with the clock blinking "12:00"... The "average" user doesn't understand WHY there is such a long delay in boot-up and the start of playback from these HD playback machines, they don't understand that the Blu-Ray spec is still being modified and changed, and in order for Blu-Ray to really start to shine with their extras and online content, those new standards may leave early Blu-Ray adopters with a machine that won't work with new movies (most likely the "extra" pieces will just be disabled, but still, you get the point).

Ignore that Blu-Ray is more expensive, and the "lies" that have been pushed about the technology. I think that the reason it burns me so bad is the same reason that I get mad when I am at Best Buy and I hear the sales kid telling someone that the BOSE satellite system is the best quality that they can get and will match their 42" 1080p Plasma perfectly, and will look and sound better than EVERYTHING out there when they are sitting 15 feet away from the screen in the great-room of their house...

I get tired of people being mislead. Why not let the REAL facts of the technology speak for itself. Blu-Ray has been promoting their "greater capacity" for a long time, even though they have mostly produced single layer discs limiting their capacity to 25GB. HD-DVD has been putting out mostly dual layer discs to get 34GB of space per movie. Top that off that NEITHER formats use even that much space. Oh, and HD-DVD supports 3-layers given it a max of 51GB. Only 1GB more than the maximum of Blu-Ray, but it still is there. Again, HD movies have MORE than enough space with less layers than maximum.

Is Blu-Ray bad, heck no! Bring on the HD movies! Is the PS3 bad? No way, I am not a PS3 fan, but I respect the hardware, even if there are 3 times as many XBox 360s out there (according to a report I read just today about the whole impact and cost to Sony for forcing this technology). We all here like to enjoy sound, and most of us movies too. If one person does it differently than another, that is perfectly fine. I just think that we (the consumers) are being force fed a more expensive, non-finalized, arguably less technically capable (when looking past the movie's video and sound itself) technology. Is it (Blu-Ray) good? You bet! But I don't think that it was the "best" choice.

You all are completely entitled to disagree, and yet again, I hope that people could hear my respect for Blu-Ray users even if I disagree with the way that it was "marketed."

Some issues are that Bluray is still evolving. Currently, profile 1.1 players are shipping. Profile 2.0 players are on the horizon. Each spec adds different features and I don't know if there are any guarantees that today's non 2.0 players can play of discs in the future.

Then there's the High def audio formats. I believe PS3 is somewhat limited in what it can decode. I've seen reports that there is a FW that will bring PS3 to profile 1.1 but since I don't own it, I don't know for sure.

Another example. Most BD today will not resume. So if you hit stop or power off, it won't remember where you were. Add that to the long power up times (to finally playing the movie) and it can get annoying!

Then you have players (Toshiba and Samsung) which suffer from incorrect implementation of displaying BD's at 24Hz. Again, PS3 can't do 24Hz so it's a moot point.

HDMI pretty much started this whole mess. The HDCP caused a lot of grief because of incompatibility. We're at that growing pains stage with HD/Bluray.

I'm not sure how many will know, but when IBM clones first hit the street, one of the selling points was "it plays MS Flight simulator" It became a benchmark of compatibility. Not all clones got it right in the beginning. No one today would thinks twice about compatibility when buying a Dell, Gateway, etc.

HD and Bluray isn't there yet. Well, HD is "more there" than Bluray, but neither get a 100% mark from my view point.

Especially now that Digital Playground is going bi!

Warming to blue ray

The latest firmware has upgraded the ps3 to profile 1.1 already. Also it can play all formats but DTS HD:Ma and while its hardware very likely can't stream it, it might be able to decode it and send a pcm stream to the receiver, which would be good enough for me (when I upgrade the receiver).
Also the ps3 does support 1080p24Hz since firmware 1.8!

All in all I'm very pleased with the perfomance of it as a bluray player.

This whole Hi-Def format war made me sick from the start. First Disney puts money into the development of HD-DVD but pulls out when HD-DVD won't push to the limits Disney wants in terms of anti-theft-ware. Then Disney and Fox plant their flags into Blu. It was Disney and Fox who also planted their flags into Divix years ago.
I still don't understand how so many units of Blu-ray players and movies were sold simply due to the fact there are a more wider range of film released on HD-DVD. The Blu release slate is for the most part filled with more recent bombs inwhich the studios are still trying to get their money back on by showcasing a new format. Aside from teh few hits most are duds that no one wanted to see in the theatre - like I was to see that crap clearer and more defined?!!
Meanwhile there have been release with less bonus features on Blu than on the standard versions - what the hell is that all about?! The new format boasted all this extra room so where is it being used! It's a rip-off. Not to mention why aren't certian films which have been publicized as being digially restored and remastered in High Def available IN HI-DEF - case in point all the BOND film released last year in box sets.
For over 5 years now Sony/Colunbia has made it known on the back cover of their releases standard DVD released have been mastered in HIGH DEF. Where are they? Instead they expect the public to put them in the black with newer theatrical bombs.
Then there's the whole mess of releasing players that change which every six month slate - can't they just get it right from the get go? Why do they have to use the consumer as a lab mouse by selling obsolete players compared to software released the next month. HD-DVD seems to have their act a little more together. I don't even want to get into what Disney is shoveling.
Their head of DVD operations shout Blu is quality - yet this is the same studio that has at least a dozen DVD releases using masters done over 10 years ago meant for Laserdisc (THE NIGHTMARE BEFORE CHRISTMAS, SISTER ACT, THE JOY LUCK CLUB, HOCUS POCUS, and more)
If Disney is SOOOO into BLU why aren't they release the new re-mastered re-release of the animated 101 Dalmations in on Blu along with the standard release! No, in stead they are planning to release SLEEPING BEAUTY on Blu - a title that under performed when released as a special edition on standard DVD.
Thank you, I have my OPPO and my Anthem D2 with video upconverting that makes all standard DVD 1080p and has fooled my friends and reletives into thinking it's Hi-Def - at least until the dust settles and cary atmosphere is gone from this Hi-Def bull.

...and to throw more fuel on the fire, rumors are swirling that Paramount wants to break their HD-DVD exclusivity deal they entered into 4 months ago, via some sort of clause which allows them an exit if others studios went the Blu-ray way.
I just wish there one solid, finalized format that we could all feel safe in investing in, knowing every single movie would come out on that format, and would be fully compatible with our player/receiver.

As much as I think Blu-ray was the greater evil, and even though I bought a lot more HD DVDs in support of the format, I'm ready to come to terms with even the wrong side winning, just so we can move on to more widespread adoption, ensuring more of the content we want in high-definition.

That being said, I'll still continue to enjoy my HD DVD player until it gives up the ghost, as I hope others will. I plan on putting up several more discs in the giveaway thread, both HD DVD and Blu-ray, so stay tuned for that in a couple more weekends.

I don't consider my investment a waste. I've had a lot of fun enjoying the benefits of high-definition picture and sound before others, and I've definitely gotten more out of the format than I've been able to get out of SACD and DVD-Audio.

If Sony and the rest of the Blu-Ray camp wants to really win the HD-DVD users, then they better make sure that future players also play HD-DVD as well. I know that for them, strategically it doesn't make sense right now, but to get their players as the exclusive player in the home, they would need to do this.

I considered my $98 HD-DVD player a "short-term" investment. Short-term, I thought, would be a couple of years though, not a couple of months potentially. Sure, there are movies out there on HD-DVD that I enjoy, but I've been NetFlix'ing the heck out of them and don't know how much more I will be able to enjoy without more new content. Of course, with the HD-DVD movie rebate with the requirement of removing the UPC from the box, my player is no longer returnable (even if I wanted to return it) nor or the 5 movies that I actually bought.

>> From xboxer.tv:

How sad. At least now we know who to blame if Blu-ray's "evolving" spec turns into a consumer-screwing fiasco.

There is one wild card that Toshiba has yet to play. It is the exclusive production of Combo HD DVD and DVD being the only DVD release for big blockbusters.

If Toshiba would take a loss and put out HD DVD / DVD Combo discs and convince the studios not to release a DVD variant, I believe that they could steal this whole war. Maybe price the Combo Disc a little higher, but still, the consumer would have no choice but to buy the DVD and HD DVD...and they'll say to themselves after multiple combo disc purchases, "I have all these HD DVD's I probably should just go out and buy a player". Done, Toshiba has accomplished their job.

They need to be aggressive with their combo discs. I believe this is the only way that HD DVD has a chance of winning this war. If they start to do this exclusively, I think Warner will come back to HD DVD.

That is one other thing that I like about most of my HD-DVDs that I own. They are HD-DVD on one side, and regular DVD on the other. I can view the HD version in my home theater, and the SD version everywhere else in my house, or in our minivan for the kids.

If anything, the combo discs need to come way down in price. I already hate paying more for them when I don't care about the SD layer. It would be insane to insult both owners of HD and SD players with high prices and no alternatives.

Perhaps I should clarify,

They should price the combo discs maybe $3 more than the SD DVD would have cost.

So you're OK with the consumers getting screwed even more just so HD-DVD wins the war? By screwed I mean all the people who have DVD players and no HD players having to pay more just to get the title they want on DVD.

It would the same approach that the Blu-Ray camp took... Force the technology on people...

If the HD DVD combo disc cost $3 more than the SD DVD would have cost, you consider that getting screwed? You paying $3 more for an HD capable disc, sounds like a good deal to me. And you're future proofed.

Exactly, only HD DVD has the lower hand, so they can't pull the same crap.

It's not future proofing if the format dies. Forcing a failing format on people isn't going to endear you, no matter if it's only $3 more. If HD DVD goes this route, they have to make the price exactly the same as DVD and put out a HUGE informational marketing push so people aren't confused. I really don't know if they have the energy left for such a rally.

I'm not really on either side, but why would you think they forced it on people? Didn't HD DVD try just as hard to woo studios? Basically, the market decided. It's all happened before: Betamax,
Harvard Graphics, Improv, MCIMail, Compuserve, Geos operating system, Ventura publisher, OS/2, Lotus 123, WordPerfect, Dbase, Borland, on and on and on went the way of the dodo bird.

In some cases, marketing won, in others, superior technology won.

I think for the most part, the market decided. And if Warner declared its allegiance to Bluray before Christmas, people would have hounded them for trying to tank HD DVD during the busiest shopping season.

I do find it interesting that people have such strong feelings about Bluray vs HD DVD. I remember when AVS shut down the forums because people were going nuts (from what I read). For me, either would have been fine. HD DVD was more ready now, but Bluray probably have more future potential. Whether that comes to fruition or not, is a different debate.

I bought the XA2, their flagship player. But I don't think it's money wasted. It upscales nicely, and I can enjoy my HD DVDs from netflix - for now. Ironically, my five free HD DVD's came today. My free Bluray movies came about two months earlier. (bought both at the same time).

Hansang, this is meant to answer your question and just continue the discussion. Take nothing personal from anything below. It just seems like so many people have fallen into the marketing monster of Sony and blindly believe everything like another 4-letter word I know..... BOSE. More Money Through Better Marketing....

Sony put the Blu-Ray in the PS3 even though most gamers that wanted the latest PlayStation didn't care for a Blu-Ray drive and according to market reports would have rather had a less expensive machine. (This has actually bit Sony in the butt with them in a distant 3rd place in the current console gaming system race. XBox 360 didn't wait for HD-DVD, and they got to market 1 year before Sony because Sony waited for the Blu-Ray drive, and now there are 3 times as many XBox 360 owners as PS3 owners. Put the Wii in there, and the PS3 is in 3rd place. A HUGE blow to Sony since the PS2 was the "king" before.)

Then Sony had the marketing lies about "more capacity", "better video and sound resolution than other HD formats", and with their "deals" with movie studios to lock out HD-DVD, it DOES force their technology. Sure, if Blu-Ray was the better of the two formats, it would be great, but it has been argued for years by people that aren't easily wowed by the better sounding "name" of Blu-Ray over boring sounding HD-DVD, that Blu-Ray was the inferior format for a long time, still isn't finalized (lack of compatibility for newer titles and older machines, Blu-Ray costs more to make both in the hardware and the discs, and so on...

If the "market" had decided, and if the "market" had the facts, then the "market" would not have picked Blu-Ray, but what choice did Sony give the "market"? (wow, that's a lot of quotes)

* Disclaimer, I know that there is more than just Sony at play here, but Sony was the one brokering the deals for the most part, and footing the cash, as well as the ones directly doing the marketing lies. If their format truly was superior, then why didn't they let the facts be what they are and truly LET the "market" decide?

I must be getting cranky in my old age... I think that I am 35 going on 65 sometimes. Maybe I need a new hobby... Naw... I just need it to get warm enough outside to play more paintball with my team and really get some aggression out.

I always felt HD-DVD should have been called HDVD or E-DVD(Extended DVD) it easier to say. It's that one extra letter that has always bugged me. After all what is high def now won't be in a few years.

No, it will still be high-definition. It just won't be ultra high-definition.

Personally, I'm waiting for this.

Hey, nice PSA. Thanks!

RED Sarge - "This year Blu-Ray is gonna be Red-Ray..."

GOLD Sarge - "What about HD-DVD?"

RED Sarge - "Bad marketing. Not enough repeated letters in the name to be catchy. So it's being replaced with HHD-DVVDD-BVD."


Great stuff!

Great Link!

In other news...:
Microsoft's Xbox could consider Blu-ray support
>> From guardian.co.uk:

Microsoft won't do that for some time, if ever. So far, they don't need it to sell the XBox as a gaming console, and they aren't about to cut and bail after investing so much in HD-DVD. While HD-DVD may go away, it doesn't mean that they will get a Blu-Ray drive for the XBox 360 anytime soon, if ever.

On an interesting, factual note (since the XBox statement is still speculative), you can preorder a Blu-Ray internal drive for your PC for less than $200. Not too shabby. Hopefully this will drive the prices down again...

It will take them as long as it took them to finally implement HDMI into their 360s.

There's also a dual hd-dvd/blu-ray drive on the market (for less than $500!). But the problem is that software support isn't very good. I was going to buy one but after looking into it I realized that it wasn't guaranteed to work well at all, so I ended up buying a ps3 and a Toshiba A2.

I thought someone told me awhile back that major pornography film companies were backing HD-DVD.
You would think with that multi billion dollar industry that BluRay would have choked right there; if this were true.

But then again, somethings *really* don't need to be in HD!

Chess, that was the case, but most of them switched to bluray instead.

Orginally bluray was not going to allow porn on their media, but caved in for financial gain.

And Disney made the claim that they wouldn't put their movies out on the same format as porn, but that seems like a silly thing now...

Yep... That's always the case, follow the money wherever it takes you, that's their motto.

Rumor Smashed: Microsoft Is NOT Considering Blu-ray Support
>> From gizmodo.com:

Well, Microsoft, Universal, Paramount and DreamWorks are still behind HD DVD, the best thing for consumers would be for the all studios to make both formats, most people seem to think there has to be a war and a clear winner, I believe we need both formats to keep the competition going, eventually one or the other formats will die out as the consumers have made their decision. But I'm only dreaming.

So, kind of like the Mac & PC (or is it Mac VS PC?) thing?

Or the Acura VS Audi VS BMW of North America VS Buick VS Cadillac VS Chevrolet VS Chrysler VS Dodge VS Eagle VS Ferrari VS Ford VS General Motors Corp. VS Global Electric Motorcars, LLC VS GMC VS Honda VS Hummer VS Hyundai VS Infiniti VS Isuzu VS Jaguar VS Jeep VS Kia Motors America VS Lamborghini VS Land Rover of North America VS Lexus VS Lincoln VS Lotus VS Mazda VS Mercedes-Benz VS Mercury VS Mitsubishi Motors VS Nissan VS Oldsmobile VS Peugeot VS Pontiac VS Porsche VS Regal (Buick) VS Saab VS Saturn VS Subaru VS Suzuki VS Toyota VS Volkswagen of America, Inc. VS Volvo of North America thing?

(Sorry, trying to be funny, and it isn't working.)

Competition is good, choices are good. Why studios can't make both formats is beyond me. I mean, they make have made 2 "versions" of their movies for some time. It used to be video tape and DVD, and now DVD and Hi-Def versions. Why not Blu-Ray and then a Combo HD-DVD & DVD version?

I think that these are the points of the people that like HD-DVD.

The problem is people are generally stupid (not people here though, we are all smart!) and they can't be trusted to buy the blue colored Blu-Ray box or the red colored HD-DVD box to match their machines capabilities.

You can't really tell it's the end of the week at the office for Nick, can you?

Yeah, yeah.... So what's your point!

J/K - I guess "stupid" is a bit harsh... "people are generally uneducated (when it comes to knowing the difference in technology, or the color of a box)..." would have been better.

Nick, I wasn't picking on you. I think most of us have those moments all too often where we wonder how some people managed to stay alive so darn long.

given that one of Microsoft's rivals is SONY i highly doubt they'll be doing a bluray drive anytime soon...Microsoft doesn't have much to loose if they stay with HD DVD...they don't have that much money invested into it other than the drive...so. they say we're HD DVD for ever! what happens? drags the battle on a little longer...SONY looses more money trying to compete and Microsoft sits back and continues making money and watching one of their main gaming competitors spend theirs...smart business sense in my opinion...oh! and also the longer this battle drags on the more time there is for good streaming options to be viable brought to you by who other than...yep! Microsof$t!!