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#190592 - 01/04/08 07:13 PM Re: Denon 3808CI – one week later [Re: chapin99]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17741
Loc: NoVA
OK, have a look at page 1-9 of your manual. This appears to be what you want. Ignore the Surround-B speakers; this is not (as your respondant described) for bi-wiring, it's for when you want to use 2 different kinds of side surrounds: one for music, one for movies. Denons have had this feature for awhile--some people prefer to use monopole speakers for multi-channel music listening.

If you're running the zone-2 speakers with the Denon itself, you don't need to run analog cables outside. However, you will not be able to listen to digital sources on zone-2; you will need to run a pair of analog cables from your CD player in addition to the digital connection, for example. This is because it treats zone-2 as a completely different system; you can play different sources on zone-2 from the primary room. You can also play the same thing.
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#190598 - 01/04/08 07:46 PM Re: Denon 3808CI – one week later [Re: Ken.C]
chapin99 Offline
buff

Registered: 04/21/06
Posts: 41
Loc: South Carolina
Wow - that was quick! Well, the problem is that I only have the surround B jacks on the denon left after wiring my QS8s to surround A jacks and my 22s to the rear back. It may be that zone two can only be done from those rear back jacks and if so I wouldn't be able to use the rear backs in the 7.1 setup. I guess if I wired rear backs to surround b it would work, but am concerned the audessy setup wouldn't catch that they are rear and not side. Still seems like I should have a bit more flexibility. Oh thanks for clarifying - I do get that I'd just wire rcas from directv, cd, etc. to get the outside sound via analog. That was a surprise, however. I sure try to do things the best way and am just hesitant to assign rear backs to surround (and I just bought and spent so much time on all that speaker wire for the back channels since I thought I'd really like having them! ugh!). But, I don't want to lose the ability to hear tunes while on the patio. I just hoped there would be a way. Any suggestions? Are other receivers in this range as finicky about this particular use (speaker b)? I have a tough time settling for less, but maybe have to decide what's most important and give up on something. HHHMMMM! All suggestions/ideas would be appreciated. The receiver is just one week old to me today, so wish to love it more. Why can't everything be as easy as buying Axioms?!

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#190599 - 01/04/08 07:57 PM Re: Denon 3808CI – one week later [Re: chapin99]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17741
Loc: NoVA
Yeah, you're pretty much stuck. Pretty much nothing in this class uses speaker B. What Speaker B is (as we're describing it) is actually just like hooking up 2 sets of speakers up to the front amps. So if you've got M80s in both places, you would be presenting a 2 ohm load to the amp. Not a good idea (no matter what Mojo keeps doing to his poor Denon). Personally, I use a separate receiver for my Zone 2, fed from the Zone 2 outs on my H/K. This of course means that I have to connect them using analog cables, but my setup allowed for that. All I had to do was punch a couple holes in the wall and put in some RCA wall plates.

Of course, since you've got speaker wire run already, how about just hooking up a little integrated amp or receiver to those Zone 2 analog outs on the Denon, setting the second receiver next to it, and hooking up the exterior speakers to that? It's kind of a kludge, but it would get you what you're looking for.


Edited by kcarlile (01/04/08 07:58 PM)
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#190602 - 01/04/08 08:23 PM Re: Denon 3808CI – one week later [Re: Ken.C]
Ray3 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/02/04
Posts: 2840
Loc: Rochester, NY
T - thanks. That's pretty much where it looks like I will end up.

As far as the USB question is concerned - I can plug in a hard drive and get at music. That's about it. I'd like to get at internet radio and jpegs, so I'd like the wireless bridge solution - just more robust.

Also, there is a USB port on the front and another on the back. If using one, you can't use the other. Easily solved by using a hub though.

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#190612 - 01/04/08 10:14 PM Re: Denon 3808CI – one week later [Re: chapin99]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10363
Laura, as Ken indicated, the reply you got from Denon was incorrect on the surround B option. Ken described it correctly.

You only have seven separate channels available and if you use the back surround channels for back surround speakers you can't use them for zone 2 speakers at the same time. Also, wiring the back surround speakers to the surround B terminals doesn't work right since the surround B output is side surround material, not back surround.
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#190650 - 01/05/08 09:58 AM Re: Denon 3808CI – one week later [Re: JohnK]
chapin99 Offline
buff

Registered: 04/21/06
Posts: 41
Loc: South Carolina
Thanks Ken and John. I'll have to do some pondering. I should post a pic of my system where you'll see I've exhausted places to put stuff. I have a 61 inch tv, below it is the denon on the left and two directv hd-dvr's (one on top of the other, but fans on the hr-20 since it runs hot), then the shelf below has a monster sansui 9001 (big and wide) with my buffalo bridge thingy next to it and one hi-rez pioneer dvd player with one panamax setup to the right of the 9001, then sitting on the floor beneath those are a 200 and 300 disc cd-changers daisy chained. To the left of that video type lovan furniture is a short rack with a rega tt on top, an oppo 981 under it, and next shelf has a cd-4 demodulator(for quad), a bellari phono amp, one dbx snr1 (noise reduction for front quad channels), then below that is an akai cr80dss quad 8 track player, next shelf is the other snr-r for rears and a technics Q8 player, and sitting on the floor (unfortunately, but they work) are two dbx 400 switcher boxes (again for quad sources). Whew!! And to fill out the room, to either side are the beautiful awesome M80s which are then flanked by klipsch la scalas (used with sansui and quad sources) with the left la scala having a marantz quad tt atop it! I guess if I had accessible pics, they would have been worth a thousand words! Sorry for the overload. So, as you can see, I would have had no problem adding another receiver or whatever and actually have a yamaha receiver in the attic that came just before hdmi. But space is always the problem. What are your opinions on the benefits of 7.1 as opposed to 5.1? I wonder if I should just carry a boom box outside, but it was fun having people over and listening to xm or whatever through attached outdoor speakers. Decisions, decisions! Thanks again for continued input. While I'm having a hard time adapting, it is good to know that there are not any comparably priced receivers that would do what I want. And I do know the denon sounds wonderful with the axioms. I just hope I wasn't penny wise and pound foolish and maybe should have saved up to buy the 4308 model or something. Of course, it may not do this either. Anyway, thanks for letting me enjoy the discussion.
Laura

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#190710 - 01/05/08 05:00 PM Re: Denon 3808CI – one week later [Re: chapin99]
michael_d Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3875
Loc: Up yonder
Laura,

If you use wish to use the second, and / or third zone on the Denon, you will have to come up with some work arounds. If you have a 7.1 speaker array, the secondary zones can not be used without going into menu every time you wish to use them and change the surround back channel configuration to “off”. I’m not sure, but there may be a discrete IR command to do this, and if there is, you could program this as a “macro” with a programmable remote. As I do not use the second zone, I can not give you a definitive answer if this is possible or not.

The 3808 is not alone with this limitation. All receivers with multiple zone capabilities utilize the surround back channel to drive the other zones. You will have to pony up and spend some more coin on a true multi zone processor for independent zone configuration, and I’m not even sure if one exists. I briefly read some literature on the new McIntosh line and they may have the ability to do what you are looking for. Plan to spend no less than ten grand for a McIntosh processor though.
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#190961 - 01/07/08 02:16 PM Re: Denon 3808CI – one week later [Re: michael_d]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8268
Loc: Tacoma
Just do what Ken said and get a small integrated amp to drive Zone 2 from the RCA outputs on the back of the Denon.

Oh, Ray, just run some damn Cat5. \:\)
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#191045 - 01/08/08 12:51 AM Re: Denon 3808CI – one week later [Re: tomtuttle]
terzaghi Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 04/04/07
Posts: 4842
Loc: Tulsa, Oklahoma
not sure if this has already been mentioned but thought I would say this:

I encourage everyone with the 3808 to check out denonradio.com

it is a neat way to organize your internet radiofavorites and browse through denon's list of 10,000+ stations. You can cruise through them all a lot faster than on the GUI and even see the stream quaility.

Also, you can add the URL of any radio station that is not on their list.

I added a few favorites and got a message saying that it could take up to one day for the stations to show up on my denon. The stations showed up on my denon GUI in less then a minute!
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#191046 - 01/08/08 01:09 AM Re: Denon 3808CI – one week later [Re: terzaghi]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10363
T, actually that's radiodenon rather than denonradio . An excellent site that I use for internet music listening whenever I'm at the computer is Classical Webcast .
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