Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Now that HD is dead, Which blu-ray player to buy

I had been waiting for this to happen for a few months. Didnt have the budget to buy a dual player, I waited for Sony and Toshiba to figure it out between them. So blu-ray is the winner. Now I am confused which blu-ray player to buy. I am looking for one that is up to date, does not take forever to load DVDs, plays all features of the blu-ray DVDs. but most important for me is to make sure it supports Dolby HD and DTS HD. If someone can help me out with it, that would be great. i am currently looking at Samsung BD-P1400 or Sony BDP-S300/301.
Thanks.

I would not get either one that you mention.

The best player out is one of the new Denon’s, but they are mighty proud of them. The next best option is the Panasonic BD 50, but they are not out yet and I’d wait to hear what users have to say about them. Panasonic is having trouble with the LFE track on PCM audio. I’d wait to see if the 50 has the same issue.

I would say if your in a hurry go for the Panny 30 as it has pretty good reviews, but as Mike mentioned, it might be smart to wait and see what the 50 brings to the table.

My vote would be to go for a Panasonic. The Denon's are mighty expensive and the $1200 uses some of the same electronics as the Panasonic BD30 which is half that price. Stay away from Samsung. They're currently being sued.

The Panasonic BD30 is a great machine. It's profile 1.1. The new BD50 will be profile 2.0, but will probably cost more. If on-line content is important to you, wait for the BD50. If not, then the profile 1.1 machine will be just fine.

Buy a turntable and a nice tube amp and the hell with the new formats.

Bayne,

Its not just online content, its the fact that you can download a firmware upgrade just by plugging in your machine to your local network...I think thats worth waiting for IMHO.

That's one of the coolest features of the PS3--its wireless connectivity. Within ten minutes of plugging the machine in I had it connected to the internet and downloaded an upgrade.

So far the Panasonics have had almost no updates (last one was April 2007). I just did one Yesterday and (counting the time to download the firmware and burn the CD), it took a huge 6 minutes! I was worried about that too (as I was used to my Toshiba A30's upload capabilities), but it turns out it's even simpler with the BD30! So I would not hold out just for that.

PS: Not that upgrades are not a valid concern; just a lesser one with those panasonic units.

Timely discussion. I just got a new Denon 3808 and will be setting it up once I get some cables and networking stuff delivered.

With this thing being network-able, I want to take advantage of it's capabilities and also stream music, internet radio, pics, video, DVDs through it and the 58" plasma hanging on the wall. Also need a Blu-Ray player and having the ability to surf the internet with a bluetooth keyboard/mouse is also high on the list of "wants".

Sean mentioned the PS3. I have done an enormous amount of research and this piece of equipment is amazing. It does ALL of the stuff I mentioned above AND is one of the best Blu-Ray players out there (with the ability to take firmware upgrades.

Oh yeah, it is a game console too.

The price is pretty good when you consider the capabilities. Sony apparently has a deal right now where you sign up for a Sony credit card and get $100 off a purchase over $299 and no interest for a year. I'm thinking a new PS3 is going to be on the way soon.

Anybody using the thing for Blu-Ray? Pluses/minuses?

Ray

I use my ps3 for bluray often and no problem so far. Movies play flawlessly and no skips or freezing of any kind.

The cons would be the fact that you have to use the gamepad to control the movie (which is fine by me), or use one of the existing infrared addons so you can control it with a universal remote. The drawback of using this is that only the bluetooth remote/gamepad can turn it on or off, so you would have to manually turn it on or off (there might be some hack that allows you to use it but I'm not sure yet since I didn't research that).

Another con is that it doesn't have analog outs, only toslink/hdmi, and also only allows internal decoding of Dolby TrueHD/DTS HD (not MA as of yet) and passes multichannel PCM to the receiver only (no Dolby or DTS light on your receiver, just PCM).

I guess those 2 can be a real deal breaker for a lot of people, which isn't the case for me.

It looks like I should have added additional clarification / rational to my pick earlier today.

The PS3 is by far the most robust machine I own. I love this thing and I DO NOT play games. However, it has one serious shortcoming; it will not decode DTS-Master. There are, and have been rumors that it will receive a firmware update to add this functionality, but many others are speculating it is hardware limited and it will not ever be able to decode DTS-Master. It is for this reason I bought the Pany BD 30.

The BD 30 is a great machine as well, but it has two shortcomings. One: its LFE channel output for user selected PCM audio streams on BR disks is 4-5 DB low. No one knows for certain if Panasonic will ever address this, or for that matter, even publicly admit it’s an issue needing resolution. The Pany BD10 and Denon 2500 [which utilizes some of the same hardware as the BD 30] also have the same PCM LFE problem. NOTE: this is ONLY for PCM Lossless audio tracks and ALL other formats work just fine.

The second BD30 shortcoming is; it WILL NOT internally decode DTS-M or DD-TruHD. It will NEVER internally decode them because it does not have the hardware to do this. The BD 30 sends DTS-M and DD-TruHD to the audio processor in BITSTREAM format. In other words, you will need an HDMI 1.3 audio processor that will decode DTS-M and DD-TruHD in order to hear these tracks.

The Panasonic BD 50, according to cut sheets, will internally decode ALL formats and send them to the audio processor in three different formats. 1) Raw Bitstream - via HDMI 1.3 2) Decoded multi channel digital PCM - via HDMI 1.1/1.2/1.3 3) Decoded Multi Channel Analogue - via analogue outputs (I do not know if that will be 5.1 or 7.1).

It is not known if the BD 50 will exhibit the same PCM / LFE bug that its sibling share. It is for that reason that I would wait until users report back.

Currently, I’m using a PS3 for BR disks with PCM audio formats and the BD 30 for DTS-M.

I think the PS3 is a great Blu-ray player, easy to upgrade and I'm sure Sony will keep it current. The only thing that annoys me is that it uses bluetooth rather than IR, that can be partially avoided by purchasing the Nyko remote that can be programmed for use with a universal remote.
Amazon has the 40g PS3 with Spiderman 3 for $399.00, still a good value for a Blu-ray player.

I want to add to what mdrew said that there's a lot of FUD going on about the whole DTS HD:MA on ps3. The hardware is capable of decoding it, what it can't do is bitstream it to a receiver due to the fact that the HDMI chip used in the ps3 isn't capable of it. But there's nothing that would stop it in theory from decoding it and outputting PCM.

The question is can/will it be done through a future firmware update? We don't know and if DTS HD:MA is important to you then I wouldn't buy one and then hope it will be included. Since my receiver is old I didn't care about it and so the ps3 is more than enough for what I need. By the time I'll upgrade my receiver either the ps3 will be able to decode it or there will be better and cheaper players to buy so I don't worry about it.

The issue about the remote has some solutions, so that's not much of a problem.

I forgot to mention that the 40 GB (or 80GB)HD can be replaced with a much larger (up to 320 GB) HD.

The other thing that is interesting is that the 80 has essentially been taken off the market. The speculation is that it will be replaced with a 120 GB or 160 GB unit.

Unless it has some other tricks that can't be done with a firmware upgrade to the 40GB unit, the 40 looks like the one I will grab.

panny bd50 here

I own the 1400 as well as PS3. To date, 1400 has been great for me. It can bitstream all high def codecs and it can internally decode all formats except Master Audio. It also has 5.1 analog outs if you need that.

I've had one problem with a scratched disc that it could not play. PS3 studdered at the same spot, but I was able to fast forward through it.

Picture quality wise, I would say they are on par or perhaps slight advantage going to the 1400. The one *ANNOYING* feature of 1400 is that after five minutes of being on pause, it will stop the player. Not a big deal except on java based discs. It will restart from the beginning! That truly is annoying. Other than that, I'm very happy with my 1400. I use the PS3 almost exclusively for games and 1400 for Blu-ray (except when I want to compare sound/video etc)

What is a 1400? Who makes it? Is it just a DVD player?

It just occurred to me. I believe Sony fired the exec (forced retirement) responsible for the PS3 development/launch. I recall everyone making fun of Sony for putting a ridiculously expensive blu-ray technology into the PS3. But 20/20 hindsight may prove Sony right. Who knew!?

Ray, that would be the Samsung BDP-1400 Blu-ray.

I am happy with my Panny BD30. Yes there is a LFE issue with Uncompressed PCM tracks (about 25% of the b) discs I have), but honestly, it hasn;t been out of control. I seem to have been able to adjust for it. (Read as a less than perfect adjustment for a 5db LFE issue on uncompressed pCM track with HD video content is still much better than a SD video track with DD5.1)

Thanks Mike - appreciated!

500 million dolloars deficit according to Japan stock market. It sounds more like a very stupid hindsight accordign to the investors.

I think that was the only reason Sony didn't pull the plug first, they would have been killed in the gaming industry and looked even more foolish.

What's interesting is that PS3 may finally be on the uptick. I got the xbox360 about a year and a half ago, then got the Wii, and just recently purchased the PS3 (for the upcoming Grand Turismo). It's actually a nice gaming system, and yet I wasn't all that interested until recently. The reduced pricing had a lot to do with that. Blu-ray player or not, I couldn't pay $500+ on a gaming system. I think PS3's problem was its identity crisis. People saw it as a very expensive gaming system and - for the most part - discounted the blu-ray capability.

Hansang - are you a Gran Turismo series fan? I developed and run a website dedicated to Gran Turismo tuning for about 7 years now -- http://www.gtvault.com

I bought a PS2 pretty much just for GT4. I played through once until it got too hard, put it aside for a while, and then started playing thru again, spending no money the second time on any upgrades or additional cars. Haven't played for a while now though.

Yeah, the no purchased cars / upgrades path can be a tough one. I started playing the series back when GT1 came out, and by the time GT4 hit I was getting pretty sick of the same routine. The graphics and physics were top notch, but the core of the game hasn't changed much at all since GT1. Hopefully the online capabilities of GT5 will bring that much needed "newness" back.

That was part of the problem, but I think the biggest issue was that Sony put out a gaming console but forgot to provide any games.
Now that some decent titles have started to arrive and with the releases of Gran Turisimo and Final Fantasy VIII coming soon I'm much happier with the console.
I do have to admit that the PS3 has been a very reliable system, I've never had a freeze or any glitches while watching movies. For someone that's into gaming and HD movies IMO the PS3 is really a great deal.

It really is, which I hate to say. It's definitely a better Blu-ray player than the PS2 was a DVD player. For 99% of people, it's all the Blu-ray player they need. Even though I really want bitstream output of DTS-HD Master Audio, it's going to take a while for me to justify the price of a standalone player.

haylo, did you get into forza motorsport2 much ?

[quote=HomeDad]

You mean Final Fantasy XIII (13) right. Not the remake of Final Fantasy VIII (eight). I though that VIII was a good game but many considered it a flop.

- Nick

I haven't played anything beyond Final Fantasy VII so I wouldn't know, I did enjoy that one a lot though.

I haven't really played anything past FF VII either.

I played FF1, then the next one I played was FF VII. I went back a couple of years ago and played FF 5 on my xbox SNES emulator. I beat the game and clocked in about 60 hours. I got about 13 hours into FF4 after that. I fired it up the other day to play it since my 360 is getting repaired... I had no idea where I was at on FF4 or where I was supposed to go!

I did play a beta for FF XI (The mmorpg) when it came to 360. I clocked in like 40 hours in 5 or 6 days! I decided that an MMORPG game like FF XI is entirely TOO addicting so I opted not to buy that one when it came out

I should also mention that I went back to play FF7 two days ago and it really sucks! One of the cool things was how neat the graphics were for the spells/ect. LEt me tell you that the graphics are HORRIBLE!

My coworker was complaining about her boyfriend getting into WoW. One time he and his friend were drunk, and it came out that his last relationship ended because he couldn't stop playing FF XI. When my coworker started dating him, he was spending a lot of time at the gym, wasn't really playing anything, only drank when they went out. Then the drunken admission about FF XI came out, and a couple days later he decided to start playing WoW. Now he doesn't make it to the gym, and he drinks a lot of beer while playing. He told her that he was just going to get to level 70 and then stop playing, but he got to level 70 a week or two ago, and guess what, he's still playing. She's unsure what to think of that.

She should create a character, raise it up to an insane level, and then just spend time hunting down his character, annihilating him over and over again.

Justice.

World of WarCRACK...

Did you ever see the WOW southpark episode. Now that was pretty funny!

many people have clocked in MONTHS of GAME HOURS in Final fantasy XI and WOW.

Games that addicting should be put in the same category as some illegal substances!

The FF XI beta even had a note on it that said something like "The world of FFXI can be very fun and addicting. Please do not forget your real life in the process of playing this game and don't forget to go outside."

I like games, but I also enjoy being outside... fishing, camping, disc golf, working out, ect.

I feel lazy if I don't work out at least a few times a week

thanks for the link. I haven't touched GT in a while, but this Prologue version looks fantastic! I'll stop by your site.

I recently tested MA and it wasn't *THAT* much better that I *HAD* to get it. PS3 is a nice blu-ray player.

I should be more clear. I have Marantz SR8001 (can't decode MA) and had SR8002 to play with. Admittedly, Live Free or Die Hard isn't the best audio to test with, but I don't know that I saw that much difference. I also tested Flight of the Phoenix, and again, not much difference between 8001 and 8002.

I've been a long time MMPORPG player. EQ, EQII, Warcraft and now Vanguard. It is extremely addictive but I limit myself to playing on nights when my real life buddies and I arrange to play. Usually Friday nights (cause we are all married and boring as weekends often go) and the occasional Wed. night when we arrange via email we will all play.

It's a blast. I myself have never reached maximum levels in any game because I don't play enough but I have seen other friends (and other players I have come to know online) who seem to live 90% of their lives in these fantasy worlds. Honestly, I don't know how they make enough money to survive or don't look like albinos with even worse health problems.

Just so I don't feel guilty, I am now wondering just how many BD movies on average have DTS Master as their only HD sound format. I know they all have regular Dolby type options which are still pretty good. Just trying to get a feel for how much of an impact the lone PS3 weakness creates.

Foroza motorsport2 is a great game , another game the kids and I are having a lot of fun on is Burnout Paradise, it's a little more difficult than the previous burnout games, but the free drive is a blast and the graphics are spectacular.

Now if they could just develop cool fishing, camping, disc golf & working out games.....

Oops got my V's and X's crossed, damn Romans.

Try Rapala Tournament fishing for the Wii.

Actually, I was just kidding! Shoulda added an emoticon!

I rented burnout paradise and kept it for about 2.5 weeks. It is a very fun game!

I think I got the burnout license and like 35 of the cars unlocked.

I knew you were but I thought I would just mention it anyway as it is really quite a fun game, so far as fishing games go.

I think the Denon is top of the line right now and on my wish list.

6ave.com has the denon bluray's for $849 and $1799.

You may be able to find them a little cheaper somewhere else I dont know...

There is no way I will spend that much on a bluray player that does not have an ethernet port though... I mean doesn't everything come with an ethernet port these days? Hell I think my coffee pot even has an ethernet port... (I know don't bash me b/c I couldn't afford the one with built in WiFi.)

$1800 for a BD player.
When I saw that I thought it was a little on the outrageous side until I went to Denon.ca and saw their $4200 regular DVD/SACD player. Here I was feeling like a chump for forking out $170 for my Oppo SACD player...

I wish I was rich enough to afford being a chump.

terzaghi - I do have Forza2, but I haven't played it a lot. I need to give it more attention as it's a great game. Better than GT4 IMO. That South Park about WoW was one of the best in recent times. pwned! Did you see the Guitar Hero episode?

CV - Sounds like the Wow guy has quite the addictive personality!

HomeDad - I got the demo of Burnout Paradise and have all the prior releases. I did notice they stepped up the gameplay quite a lot in this newest iteration. I agree, the graphics are fantastic. I'll probably have to pick it up soon.

For those who haven't heard, OPPO has announced that they will be making a Blu-ray player. They said its in the very early stages of development right now, so who knows whow long it will be until its available, but given their reputation for making top of the line players for (relatively) rock bottom prices, people might just want to hold off for a bit to see what their player will be like. I know I'm going to.

Nice. If it does both SACD and DVD-Audio, all the better.

It didn't take Microsoft long....

Microsoft to release a BR player

These players look like they might have some potential Sony

But are they the final release

I originally purchased my PS3 back in November solely for blu-ray. Since then, I've found the little extras fantastic: the wireless, the streaming of video from a PC, and now the games. I didn't think I'd play the games much but the family is having fun playing them together.

With the cheap $13 USB/IR remote I got my Harmony remote working with it (except for turning it off/on). And for movies I haven't had a single problem. I was second guessing myself whether to purchase the PS3 for blu-ray but now I'm completely satisfied with it.

I do find myself getting into the games more and more though. Already bought a few more titles and have some on pre-order. I hadn't played a game on a set top console since the original Nintendo. I never knew the graphics could be this good. And with the sound coming through the Axioms, watch out.

So, I guess I'd say I'd recommend the PS3.

The only issue with the 40 gig version of the PS3 is the fact that it is not backwards compatible with PS1 and PS2 games. If this is not an issue, then the 40 gig will be fine. I still have a ton of games for the previous Playstation's so I will not get the 40 gig version. I'll wait for the new one to come out.

FYI: I believe at the time of it's launch, the PS3 was the only BD player on market that was capable of the HDMI 1.3 standard. Not that anyone was taking advantage of it yet, but it was nice to a company plan ahead.

I too would recommend a player that can upgrade on the fly through a network.

Question: I also thought that the IR adapter for the PS3 could turn the unit off. Turning it on was the only thing that had to be done manually for the simple fact the USB port the adapter was plugged into did not have power when the unit was off, hence you couldn't turn it on. Since the adapter has power with the unit on, I thought you could still turn it off with a universal remote?

I'm not sure if that's possible, at least I haven't figured it out yet.