Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Technical Questions Elemental Designs sub ?

Craigsub about the EP600.

The question:



The reply:

Okay, just gotta say it...

I like Craig. I think he's a fun guy. He obviously takes this hobby very seriously, and I have no reason to think that his rankings are overly biased. I do NOT have his broad frame of reference. His rankings undoubtedly provide a valuable service to other audiophiles. I'm certain he knows more about subwoofers than I do, and more than most people do.

But, well, one man's opinion and all that. His room, his methodology, his ears, etc. Don't let somebody else's list deprive you of joy you might otherwise derive.

If you look around other HT forums there are other lists and they all list really good subwoofers and some rank them as well; not surprisingly differently than Craig's list. However, the better ones still rise to the top and Axiom's are usually on all the lists just a little further down. Are the differences they all talk about audible? Probably moderately to not at all.

It still comes down to what you can afford and what you can hear and like with your own ears, the lists are just helpfull guides for us to use when doing our own comparisons before purchasing.

Well put Jakewash.

Well said, Tom. Craig has said, repeatedly, that his rankings are his opinion, nothing more, nothing less. He presents them in an effort to help folks narrow down their choices, not to tell them what subwoofer to buy. And, like Consumer Reports rankings, a product being somewhere down the list doesn't mean the product isn't a good one.

I proudly own an EP500 and I don't feel deprived in the least. It is an excellent subwoofer and pleases me every time I use my system. It does the job beautifully.

I dunno. He knows my views about his list.

I've always enjoyed his opinions and usually have similar views, but his list stopped making sense to me and several other informed people a long time ago. I won't go into all the contradictions on that list but several of his recent scores did not pan out with at least 2 group listening tests. In particular they don't jive with comparisons of the JL113, PB13-Ultra, DD-18 and EP600 for example. Part of the problem is that his numerical rankings are not at all as scientific as suggested since very few of those subs were compared side by side. His music scores in particular are highly subjective and not corroborated in group tests yet they carry a 50% weight. Then some scores, like the EP500, don't reflect the unanimous favourable opinions of the listening group that included Jack and me. Reluctantly, when asked I suggest that people not place much credence on that list except as an information source. Kudos for the effort in any event.

This is the part that I don't like. Is each subwoofer going to have the same ideal location?

I'm not slamming the EP500 or Axiom. I own one. I bought it on Craig's recommendation knowing that I could send it back if I didn't like it.

I did send back the M60s and bought M80s. Thank you Axiom.

Over the past three years people watching tv at my house are overwhelmed at the sound.

The OP asked for an opinion. I gave him Craig's opinion.

I think the list is a very nice compilation for some of what is available and at what price.