Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners Sub for M3's

So I'm about to make the leap and get a set of axioms. I'm not new to audio, but never really spent much on anything for my home, so I just started researching some products. There are just too many people in love with axioms for them to not be good speakers. (the return policy helps too...)

Anyhow, I'm looking to start with a pair of m3's. My wife is unlikely to let me put towers in the living room anytime soon, and I don't have much to spend, so they seem like the obvious choice. I'm also shopping for a sub, however, and I don't have a way to demo most of the candidates at all, much less with a pair of m3's, so I was hoping I could get some feedback.

I'm considering HSU STF-2/VTF-1 because they get great reviews and they're in my price range. Can anybody comment about how they go with m3's? This is more for music than HT so I want fast, accurate bass more than deep for the most part. There are a couple of svs subs I could probably swing as well. I REALLY need it to not be huge, because of WAF. I'm planning on sticking it by an end table towards the corner where it won't be visible unless you go around behind the couch.

Anything I haven't thought of? I'm open to suggestions.

on a side note, if I'm sending everything below around 80hz to the sub, will the m3's get up pretty loud? I listen to mostly rock, and I like to play it loud sometimes. I've got plenty of amp for them, based on the listed requirements. Also, since I've never seen a direct comparo, how might you folks compare an m3 to a B&W DM601 S3? I demoed a pair and kinda liked them. Of course the m3's are nearly $150 cheaper...

You will love the M3s and they will get loud with out too much trouble.

The Hsu subs are great for the money, I would also suggest the Axiom EP400 for a sub if you can swing the funds, it is very fast and accurate, another choice might be the Paradigm DSP-3100.

Welcome, woofersus!

The M3s are great all-around speakers. Unless your room is cavernous you should be able to crank up the M3s no problem. For a short while I paired up my M3s with a Hsu VTF3 mkII and liked the results. The STF2 or VTF 1 should work very well for you. Also, you might check out Outlaw subs. The LFM-2 and LFM-1 Compact seem to fit the small size requirement. I have not personally heard these subs, but I believe Dr. Hsu had a hand in the development.

The EP400 does look great, but I definitely can't swing the funds. For that matter, if I was going to spend $1500 total rather than around $650 I probably wouldn't just be getting two m3's and a sub. I'd probably add a vp100 and a couple of qs4's.

That paradigm does look very nice. The online buzz is very positive, and I like the size. The price may be just pushing it out of range, though. Does anybody know if those can be had for under $400 anywhere? Is it worth paying $150 more than the VTF-1 or $200 more than the STF-2? (at the $500 price point I've seen bandied about in a cursory search) I'd consider moving up to the VTF-3 at that price, but the cabinet gets a bit bigger.

Glad to hear the m3's should be enough speaker. My room isn't huge. Around 12x16 or so I think. Maybe as long as 12x18. I'm not great with measurements. It does have a 10' ceiling though. My whole house is only 1500 square feet, so there's only so much space to fill.

The STF 2 or the VTF 1 will be a very good match with Axioms. I have an old VTF 2 in a room of 13x20 and it fills the room nice. I use that with the Hsu VT12 system. With my Axiom M80s I use a Hsu STF 3 and it is a very good match.

Just a thought, but what happens if you buy everything from Axiom through their outlet store? Can you get both the home theater discount and the outlet discount this way? Might get you more/better sub for the money that way.

Sure can! The HT discount will show up right away in your total.

Yep, I tried it and I can get 2 m3's, a vp100, 2 qs4's, and an ep175 for around $1370 which seems like a good deal, but more than I can spend right now.

The axiom subs are a little expensive compared to what I've been looking around at. Even the ep175v2 in the outlet shop is $504. How might that compare with a HSU VTF-2 MK3 or the above mentioned paradigm, which are around the same price. Both have more power, and the HSU is a 12 inch sub. Of course the EP175 is a good bit smaller, which is attractive, but how does it perform? Will it be enough when I want to crank it up?

woofersus, sorry I can't give you any info on a sub choice, but I have had my M3's for a month and a half and find them more than adequate to fill my 16x12x9 ft. living room with incredible sound. If your budget is tight, I would say you should pull the trigger and get the M3's and give them a try alone for awhile. You will be suprised how much power they can take and the bass is impressive as well. You can then save up for a sub that you want. Until you get the sub, you will have some great speakers to listen to. Best of luck with whatever you decide.

Woof, stick with the EP350v3 and up for Axiom subs. That paradigm is actually quite small but has some pretty good output for a 10inch driver. I have a preference for 12" drivers and up, they move more air for better HT effects. I find the 10" drivers work great for music but lack the air movement for HT.

I am really liking this SVS PB12-NSD right now.

I'm new to subs so I can't comment a whole lot. I listened to both the EP175 and EP350. The 350 was, to me, very good in the 12 x 20 x 7 room I was in. The 175 was underpowered.

If you are in the US, you have a lot of good choices with svs and HSU. A number of people are also raving about a new AV123 15" sub that is only $599.

If you want a small sub, a lot of people also thought the SVS PB10-NSD performed very well for the price ($429). I don't know if HSU or SVS have an auditioning program like Axiom's. It would be nice for you to hear a couple of subs before you buy.

SVS has a 45 day policy like Axiom's 30 day policy.

Thanks, that's good to know. I have concern about 10" woofers as well, since all ultralow extension aside, I've generally found 12" woofers to be smoother through the low frequencies. Most 10's I've hears feel very "punchy" which can be a nice effect for very percussive music, (simulates a "Fast" woofer) it isn't really accurate and doesn't sound great with everything.

I guess I'll have to either save up until I can afford an EP350, or go with something cheaper. I'm still liking the VTF-2 for the money. I don't see anything else under $500 with similar specs as of yet. Maybe I'll get lucky and snag something used.

I seriously doubt if one could hear the difference between the Hsu 10" driver and their 12" model under blind testing using the same material.

Get the VTF1 or the VTF2 and you are going to be quite surprised on how good they really are.

If that's true it's great. Too bad there's no place for me to really audition any of these. (except the paradigm most likely. there's a dealer about an hour from me)


As a complete side note, have there been any changes/improvements to the M3's over time? Would there be any disadvantage to getting a used pair that was 6-7 years old from somebody if I found some in good condition?

Anybody have any insight into the question above? Are M3 V2's different from older ones and when was the change? What is the substantive difference? When I see M3ti SE does that stand for "second edition" or something? Is that the same as V2?

This question comes up often on all the Axiom speakers. The changes are very subtle and because they spanned over years and years, Axiom felt a name change was in order. You will not find any major differences.

Good to know, thanks. I tried searching, but it doesn't seem the search function on these forums works very well. One thing I noticed after much googling is that the older m3's had slightly less overall volume in the cabinet. (the first m3ti's I think) It was slightly wider, shallower, and shorter. Perhaps the newer ones have better bass extension for that reason.

Thanks again

I ran a pair of M3Tis driven by an ASL MG S1 15DT 5 wpc SET integrated amp, with a Vance Dickerson Titanic 12" sub - wonderful combination. I also used them with a Velodyne CHT10 sub. I loved both, but preferred the Velodyne. It was quick, musical and a seemless match with the M3s.

You're gonna enjoy those M3s!!