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#221558 - 09/19/08 12:30 PM Re: Skiing Ninja offering M22v2 upgrade [Re: Ian]
Da_Gimp_Pimp Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 06/23/07
Posts: 3975
Loc: Sitting down somewhere
Just a publicity stunt . It's unfortunate that stunts like this happen to people that go out of their way for others.
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#221559 - 09/19/08 12:40 PM Re: Skiing Ninja offering M22v2 upgrade [Re: Da_Gimp_Pimp]
EFalardeau Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 08/27/07
Posts: 3269
Loc: Laval, Quebec, Canada
He probably "crossed over" to the Dark Side. \:\)
Too bad this won't happen. It could have been informative.
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E = MC2 = ((2M80 + VP180 + 4QS8)/(EP800 + EP500))^(ADA1500 x D2v)
Audiobytes! 2M22! 2VP150!

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#221560 - 09/19/08 12:40 PM Re: Skiing Ninja offering M22v2 upgrade [Re: synthguy]
CV Offline
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 11064
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
In further response, with the disclaimer that I know less than most everyone on this board (also, I'm too slow with my reply)...

Granted, there are a lot of variables in sound reproduction. It's never perfect. However, I don't believe the engineers involved in the recording process should be looking for some kind of synergistic magic. They're going to be going neutral and flat or the rest of the process is compromised. It has to be about measured improvements based on established audio principles, or you HAVE to call BS. Now after that point, the producer of the album is going to make choices that affect that purity for an effect they're going for, and that may include anticipating the equipment of their target audience. I think that's a mistake, but it happens. After that point it gets exponentially more impossible to maintain the integrity of the initial recording. Everyone's system is different, as well as the room they're using. These are variables the holders of the original vision simply cannot control. As such, maybe they shouldn't be seeking some magical combination of gear that colors the sound in some perfect way.

As for playback, end users can do what they want. I chose to buy from a company that seems serious about the science and who were within my budget. I'm very happy with the results. Am I done trying to improve the sound? No, but I don't want to throw my money at companies that can't justify their prices. They can get away with it for now, but in the long run, isn't it going to hurt the business? The best audio gear is never going to be affordable for the casual consumer if it always relies on finding some elusive, mystical mish-mash of components that transport you to audio nirvana.

"Better" is subjective, and we should only be paying more for "more accurate," and for this, we have to trust measurements and extensive double-blind listening.
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#221561 - 09/19/08 12:42 PM Re: Skiing Ninja offering M22v2 upgrade [Re: EFalardeau]
CV Offline
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 11064
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
 Originally Posted By: EFalardeau
Too bad this won't happen. It could have been informative.


Yeah, I was looking forward to it. If I had M22s, I would have certainly considered the upgrade if his product held up.
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#221562 - 09/19/08 12:47 PM Re: Skiing Ninja offering M22v2 upgrade [Re: medic8r]
Ian Offline
President
aficionado

Registered: 03/13/01
Posts: 774
medic8r

They said they wanted to keep their design “in company”. I suggested that if they wanted to make their design truly proprietary they should consider patenting them before releasing them into the marketplace.
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#221565 - 09/19/08 12:58 PM Re: Skiing Ninja offering M22v2 upgrade [Re: Ian]
JaimeG Offline
aficionado

Registered: 12/25/02
Posts: 556
Loc: Ashburn, VA
 Quote:
I suggested that if they wanted to make their design truly proprietary they should consider patenting...


Good point Ian. We'll see if he actually has something to patent.
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#221566 - 09/19/08 01:03 PM Re: Skiing Ninja offering M22v2 upgrade [Re: Ian]
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16227
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
The patent is the only way to go. All one has to do to decipher their design is to look at the crossover. Or maybe they encase it all in opaque black lucite?
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#221572 - 09/19/08 01:26 PM Re: Skiing Ninja offering M22v2 upgrade [Re: JaimeG]
EFalardeau Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 08/27/07
Posts: 3269
Loc: Laval, Quebec, Canada
Considering that their design has been available for a while (other speaker), they may have passed the legal time to file for a patent (max one year after the first public disclosure of the idea of the invention).
_________________________
E = MC2 = ((2M80 + VP180 + 4QS8)/(EP800 + EP500))^(ADA1500 x D2v)
Audiobytes! 2M22! 2VP150!

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#221578 - 09/19/08 01:53 PM Re: Skiing Ninja offering M22v2 upgrade [Re: EFalardeau]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10394
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
I believe the M22 XO is new this year, so the patent could still be applied.
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#221594 - 09/19/08 03:31 PM Re: Skiing Ninja offering M22v2 upgrade [Re: jakewash]
The Ninja Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 09/10/08
Posts: 29
We are not interested in applying for patents for stuff like this.

I know some of you will call BS on all this so here is the entire email I sent to Ian:

The network is a proprietary design and after some considerable thought, we would like to keep it ‘within’ the company. This simply means it is not available for OEM; upgrades only (such as a Borla exhaust for your car). That said, we do have a partner program that we can discuss at a later date if interested.

I spoke with my partners (one of whom is GR Research) and I’d like your ok to post some before and after measurements with explanations on my website. Please understand I mean no disrespect at all; in fact I greatly respect you and Axiom. The speaker business is incredibly difficult and we admire what you have done.

If this is something that you would rather not discuss or take further publicly, please let me know!


What I could not say at the time that I can say now is that we have just inked an exclusivity with another OEM so that puts the kibosh on us sending something to Axiom. Bad timing I know but that is how it goes.

Can someone go onto the site and purchase a set, test them thoroughly and then return under our 30 day audition policy? Sure can. Nothing I can do to stop it \:\) So no publicity stunt here. How silly a notion anyway - it's not like you can't just buy one...

Also, I added the requested measurements to the site. Go check it out...

If you would like to discuss the measurements and don't want to do it here, you can comment via the blog post here.

--
Ninja

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