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#219812 - 09/03/08 02:55 PM Re: Receiver to make M60s sound good? [Re: AdamP88]
edmondwolfman Offline
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Registered: 06/17/08
Posts: 135
Loc: Edmond, OK
 Originally Posted By: AdamP88
 Originally Posted By: edmondwolfman



If this is what Audyssey set the levels too, then I'd definitely experiment with lowering the 8khz and 16khz levels - they're definitely higher than the rest of the spectrum and that could definitely be the culprit for the harshness you're hearing.


Those levels are indeed what Audyssey set them to. Actually I lowered the 8 and 16khz by 1 or 2 but at the time wasn't sure about what I was doing or if I was screwing something up so I abandoned that route for the time being. I will go in and play with those as you guys suggested. Thanks again.
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#219813 - 09/03/08 02:57 PM Re: Receiver to make M60s sound good? [Re: edmondwolfman]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10393
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
No harm in playing as you can always rerun and re-adjust.
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#219814 - 09/03/08 03:01 PM Re: Receiver to make M60s sound good? [Re: PeterChenoweth]
edmondwolfman Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/17/08
Posts: 135
Loc: Edmond, OK
 Originally Posted By: PeterChenoweth
Lame-encoded, 256kbs+ MP3's should sound good. Maybe not perfect, but pretty darn good. But if your source CD itself sounds bad, then the rip will sound equally bad (or worse). If all of your hundreds of CD's sound bad, then I don't see how the problem could be in the mastering of *all* of them. Quite true that some CD's are mastered better than others, but they're not all badly done. Your CD's aren't all from one particular label or something strange like that, right?

Some people say that receivers & amps make a difference in the sound quality. Others say that it does not. Vigorous and heated debates have arisen between these two camps. We're generally a kind and respectful bunch around here, so it doesn't happen much here. But if you take a stroll over on some other, more general audio boards, you will find such debates.

You'll find similar debates about break-in. Some believe that speakers, receivers, amps, cables, kitchen forks, etc all need a break-in period to perform at their best. Others think that it's just the incredible adaptability of a human mind. You listen to it long enough, and you either get used to it or convince yourself that it sounds good. We adapt. That's what people do.

From my own personal, humanly-biased experience, I *do* actually believe that amps (and receivers) can 'color' the sound. And by color, I mean the differences between muddied, warm, neutral, cool, and shrill. I've been in listening rooms where I've heard the same source material, played through the same speakers but from different receivers (operating in a pass-through mode - no bass/treble/EQ trickery) switched back-to-back. And they sounded different. And I don't mean that the $x,xxx receiver always sounded better than the $xxx one. Not always. A piccolo trill might sound more piercing on receiver A, where a bass drum was more defined and clean on receiver B, where a vocals sounded more alive & focused on receiver C, etc, etc. Power specs? Distortion ratings? Magic Pixies? I don't know. But, IMHO, there are slight differences.

Really though, you've got a darn good receiver. All Denon's, but especially the 3808, are pretty highly regarded by everyone. If it were something less, a better receiver might help. My old, unable-to-cope-with-4-ohm-M80's Pioneer receiver would start to sound like crap as you cranked up the volume. An Emotiva amp completely solved that problem. But your 3803 is a robust and powerful beast.

As you know, Axiom speakers are designed to be 'neutral'. A few say they lean towards the reviled 'b' word, 'bright'. You might just prefer a 'warmer' sounding speaker, like B&W's or AV123 Rockets. And in that case, it makes sense that a tweeter resistor might make you happier with your Axioms.

Good luck. I hope you find a good solution so you can get back to enjoying the music!


Thanks. I was considering getting the Emotiva XPA-5 but posters on another site said they thought the Denon 3808 was sufficient so I haven't gone that route yet. Personally I would have to believe that using the Emotiva XPA-5 would make everything sound better with the receiver processing the signals and the amp doing what it was made to do, drive the speakers but I may be crazy and the 3808 may be all I need.
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#219815 - 09/03/08 03:03 PM Re: Receiver to make M60s sound good? [Re: jakewash]
edmondwolfman Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/17/08
Posts: 135
Loc: Edmond, OK
 Originally Posted By: jakewash
No harm in playing as you can always rerun and re-adjust.


I agree. I hate running the Audyssey setup though. It seems like every frickin time I do either a garbage truck drives by, the lawn service arrives or dogs start barking
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#219817 - 09/03/08 03:16 PM Re: Receiver to make M60s sound good? [Re: edmondwolfman]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10393
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
And I find my kids start banging around or the air/furnace turns on....isn't fun.
_________________________
Jason
-----------------
TTTHHHPPPPPTTTT!

My HT

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#219818 - 09/03/08 03:18 PM Re: Receiver to make M60s sound good? [Re: edmondwolfman]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17695
Loc: NoVA
Yeah, that curve looks incredibly wrong to me--way boosted in the treble. As Adam would say, "There's your problem!"

Also, 5 channel stereo kinda stinks--try using DTS:Neo 6 or Dolby Pro Logic IIx+eXTremeSTiUltra.

That will definitely give you a different sound. I'd also experiment with regular stereo, so you know what you're messing with when you turn on the surround modes.

Do you have your SACD player hooked up over HDMI?
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#219820 - 09/03/08 03:33 PM Re: Receiver to make M60s sound good? [Re: Ken.C]
edmondwolfman Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/17/08
Posts: 135
Loc: Edmond, OK
 Originally Posted By: kcarlile
Yeah, that curve looks incredibly wrong to me--way boosted in the treble. As Adam would say, "There's your problem!"

Also, 5 channel stereo kinda stinks--try using DTS:Neo 6 or Dolby Pro Logic IIx+eXTremeSTiUltra.

That will definitely give you a different sound. I'd also experiment with regular stereo, so you know what you're messing with when you turn on the surround modes.

Do you have your SACD player hooked up over HDMI?


I use a PS3 80G for my SACD player and yes it it hooked up via HDMI. When playing my SACDs I use multi channel direct and stream Linear PCM to Denon. I only use the 5 channel stereo for mp3s and other 2 channel music. I will give the other methods you recommended a shot.

Since my last post I've pushed the treble down to -5 and lowered some of the 8khz and 16khz levels and I can already tell a difference. I'll play with them more when I get a chance.

Does anyone use the 3808 and if so can you post or tell me what the levels are for the fronts? I understand they will all be a little different because of room acoustics and such.


Edited by edmondwolfman (09/03/08 03:35 PM)
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#219822 - 09/03/08 03:42 PM Re: Receiver to make M60s sound good? [Re: edmondwolfman]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8125
Loc: Tacoma
I think you should take as many variables out of the loop as possible for the moment and then build up. Listen in two channel stereo without the Audyssey and with the tone controls flat first. Then tweak the tone controls only. Then go from there.

It is certainly possible that you just don't like the way Axiom speakers sound. Such a circumstance is not an indictment of either you or Axiom.
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#219825 - 09/03/08 04:57 PM Re: Receiver to make M60s sound good? [Re: tomtuttle]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10393
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
 Originally Posted By: tomtuttle

It is certainly possible that you just don't like the way Axiom speakers sound. Such a circumstance is not an indictment of either you or Axiom.
Sure it is, he should burn at the stake if he doesn't like Axiom;\)
_________________________
Jason
-----------------
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#219826 - 09/03/08 05:01 PM Re: Receiver to make M60s sound good? [Re: jakewash]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17695
Loc: NoVA
Buuuurn the witch!
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