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#226756 - 10/25/08 01:05 AM XPA 2 Now! A Keeper?
SatKartr Offline
aficionado

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 608
Loc: Dallas
Well I was sort of underwhelmed with the XPA 2 for the first day and a half watching/listening to compressed Directv HD and 1 or 2 poorly recorded CDs but then tonight I bought the bluray Hulk and Wow! What a mind blower! I was totally sold. It's funny too, you know my best friend who watched Iron Man and Hulk (multiple times with his son?) in the theater thought Iron Man was better and Rotten Tomatoes gives Iron Man a 93% and Hulk only a 67% approval rating but it made perfect sense after tonight why a number of posters here liked the Hulk better, the Hulk soundtrack is so much more engaging/fulfilling to my ear from an audio sensory perspective.

Here's the problem--the XPA 2 kept going into protect mode, not for sudden loud sounds but whenever there was a crescendo.

Problem #2: I think I might have messed up one of the inputs when I was unpacking the amp to keep from dropping it, I'm afraid 87 lbs (?, or whatever) is a bit unwieldy and that would be my main critique of the amp so far; as I get even older with even more back issues I would/will need a maintenance crew to move things around; hmmm, I wonder how I am going to the muscle the ep800 into position, I have wood floors doncha know and sliding things is an issue, of course we have felt pads glued onto the bottoms of all furniture, is that just as good sonically as the rubber feet on all this "audiophile" equipment (axiom, emotiva)?

So far on the Emotiva lounge the XPA5 has been causing red light of death issues for random folks and it's been blamed on cabling (something I need to experiment with) but no one has had trouble with the XPA2 so maybe the damaged RCA input is my problem. I can experiment with cable connections as well, is there such a thing as an RCA/unbalanced to balanced input adapter? Maybe if I avoid the busted RCA input I will be OK--I have questions though: at first the red lights were all on the left side, which is the side with the loose input, then they shifted to the right side, in which the input is OK. There is zero noise at any volume, so there is nothing so crude as that going wrong.

Also reading the Gene Dela Salla article where he was having trouble in some sort of test mode (?) when sweeping from high to low (20k to 20hz) but not on stereo playback, and it seems to me that he may not have tested the amp that much for HT (?) as opposed to music, might that correspond to the shut down on crescendo issue I am having, given that HT tends to boom out the lows increasingly during exciting sequences? More or less a random thought, but I had to wonder why the impact of sheer volume did not seem to trigger a protection/default shutdown by shaking something loose, if power alone was the issue.

Of course this has all been so exciting that I keep listening to the movie at high volumes and haven't even been annoyed by the frustrating interruptions, I would even like to keep the amp if I can work through the problems, isn't that always the way, things go wrong on Friday evening, just as soon as there's no one to call?

Well if any one has any info re: emotiva protection issues that would be cool, but as a disclaimer I must point out that since the input appears to have been damaged and no one else has reported the issue for the xpa 2 the positives I am experiencing may stand and the negatives may be irrelevant and hopefully will be resolved . . .
_________________________
"If you try to turn toward it, you go against it."

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#226759 - 10/25/08 01:49 AM Re: XPA 2 Now! A Keeper? [Re: SatKartr]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13339
Loc: Iowa
Wow, why does this not suprise me. I'm sorry for your problems. Over a year ago I had similar issues with the "king of the hill" MPS1. Driving two m80's it kept shutting down. Emotiva would send me new amps to put in the chassis, and guess what, they would shut down. They wanted me to cut some limiter circuit off the boards to bypass this protection. I think not, after 3 months of screwing around, they graciously let me return them for a full refund. Sure sounds familiar.

Have been driving my 80's with Odyssey Audio monoblocks ever since with no issues. And just to let you know, my Denon 2805 would reach much higher levels with no clipping before the MPS-1 would say goodnight.

I also would like to mention, I was not listening to what I call very loud levels. Even during explosions in movies, they would shut down.

My guess is that your using 80s?


Edited by sirquack (10/25/08 01:51 AM)
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#226761 - 10/25/08 02:17 AM Re: XPA 2 Now! A Keeper? [Re: SirQuack]
SatKartr Offline
aficionado

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 608
Loc: Dallas
I was afraid you were going to say that, I knew you had problems with the MPS-1, so much for the "new architecture" perhaps, maybe it's just the same limiter circuit.

What I keep wondering though is since I have changed so many variables at once it's become pretty hard for me to trouble shoot even conceptually what may be going wrong. It seems to me now since last post from observing/listening the rest of the movie that it may only be when the LFEs kick in that the amp shuts down, is it possible that when I am running a sub and have a crossover set to spare the M80s and/or with M80s are set to small that the problem will abate? I could test those variables now and of course I will but it makes me wonder. I still don't understand how the protection circuits work, are they sensitive to the situation in which the speaker is not able to handle the power X frequency equation, e.g., high power X LFE beyond speaker capacity blow out the woofer time?
_________________________
"If you try to turn toward it, you go against it."

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#226762 - 10/25/08 02:24 AM Re: XPA 2 Now! A Keeper? [Re: SatKartr]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10399
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
I think the issue lies with the interaction of the M80s/emotiva protect circuit, so to speak. The M80s impedence may dip too low at a certain frequency thus causing the Emotiva to shut down, which makes me think Emotiva is a little too protective with their circuit, as there are many receivers that do not shut down with the M80s.
_________________________
Jason
-----------------
TTTHHHPPPPPTTTT!

My HT

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#226763 - 10/25/08 02:38 AM Re: XPA 2 Now! A Keeper? [Re: jakewash]
SatKartr Offline
aficionado

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 608
Loc: Dallas
Hmm thanks for the feedback, that makes sense, if you are right it may be a death knell for the combo of the XPA2 and M80s, funny though because a number of people are running the XPA5 without problem I believe some folks with the M80s, maybe just the M60s. I was hoping the difference in electronics between the XPA and MPS series was the culprit, the irony to me initially with all this was that the MPS1 has lower maximum output than the M80s are rated, I was hoping that the issue had more to do with a quirk with the MPS amp, perhaps not. The other monkey wrench is the fact that the emotiva folks state that the xpa2 is "a whole 'nother level" than the xpa3 or xpa5 architecture, perhaps the new level includes the protection circuit from an earlier (mps) level.
_________________________
"If you try to turn toward it, you go against it."

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#226764 - 10/25/08 02:52 AM Re: XPA 2 Now! A Keeper? [Re: SatKartr]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10403
Sat, the Emotiva may be a mystery to me, but in general protective circuits take effect either because of too much heat(unlikely in your case)or too much current. LFE occasionally appearing during movies does require more current, but even well-designed receivers(e.g., Randy's 2805)should be able to handle this at reasonably loud levels. Yes, taking some of the load off with a "small" setting and probably a 80Hz crossover for the M80s should help, but it's disappointing if the amplifier needs the help.
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Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#226767 - 10/25/08 03:44 AM Re: XPA 2 Now! A Keeper? [Re: JohnK]
SatKartr Offline
aficionado

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 608
Loc: Dallas
OK thanks, that helps me better understand the basis of the problem, Dela Salla recommends having a dedicated 20 amp line to support this amp but I'm not sure even that would help, e.g., I just unplugged the amp from the power conditioner and plugged the amp into the wall (emotiva recommends plugging the xpa2 directly into the wall, presumably to draw current without obstruction) yet playing the same content the amp seems even more volatile, as if it is drawing even more power, which appears to trigger the protection circuit even more easily in response to a spike in power given dynamic HT content.
_________________________
"If you try to turn toward it, you go against it."

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#226771 - 10/25/08 04:38 AM Re: XPA 2 Now! A Keeper? [Re: SatKartr]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10399
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Must be time to try the A1400 for at least one set of M80's \:\)
_________________________
Jason
-----------------
TTTHHHPPPPPTTTT!

My HT

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#226773 - 10/25/08 05:01 AM Re: XPA 2 Now! A Keeper? [Re: jakewash]
SatKartr Offline
aficionado

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 608
Loc: Dallas
Wish I had the dough, that's why I've been trying to take the low road. ;\)
_________________________
"If you try to turn toward it, you go against it."

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#226774 - 10/25/08 05:05 AM Re: XPA 2 Now! A Keeper? [Re: SatKartr]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10399
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Low road? I must be in the tunnel under it \:\)
_________________________
Jason
-----------------
TTTHHHPPPPPTTTT!

My HT

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