Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners M22ti vs M50

First my setup: M22ti Front L/R, VP150 Center, QS8 Side Suround L/R, M2ti Back Surrounds. Denon 2808ci Receiver. BFD Sub EQ. (Also own a pair of M3v2s that are used in my livingroom)

I have had this setup for around 4 years and am quite happy with it with one exception. In my old house I used the Rives CD and a spreadsheet to set the XO on my Deneon 3805. The smoothest response curve I got was setting the XO to 120Hz. I assumed this was due to the strange shape of the room.

About a year ago I moved and my HT is in a much tamer room. (Using RoomEQ for the BFD suggested I should turn it off.) Being lazy I just set the XO to 80Hz and left it there.

A couple of weeks ago I broke down and bought a BD player and replaced my 3805 with a 2808Ci (Got a great deal!) to get the HD audio and HDMI switching. I ran the Audyssey MultEQ config and it set the M22s to 120Hz.

I went back and looked closely at my RoomEQ traces and sure enough there was a huge hole between 80Hz and 100Hz. Then I pulled the freq resp graph for the M22s from this site. It shows a clear drop off under 100Hz even though Axiom gives the -3Db point as 60 Hz.

So, finally, my question(s). I'm considering a pair of M50s to replace my M22s. I know thaI can fill that 80 - 120 Hz. hole with them. But do they have the same brutally clear midrange as the M22s? Has anyone compared them side to side?

Also, what do I do with my M22s? Ideally I'd post here that I wanted to sell them but I don't see any of that so I assume it's frowned upon. What other site lets you post for sale info that would have viewers that are familiar with Axiom?

The reason you see a sudden drop below 100 Hz is because an anechoic chamber does not measure well under 100 ( or it could be 80 ) HZ.

Are you sure your not sitting in a null? It still sounds room related imo.

You didn't mention a sub, do you have one? If so, which? (it would help to know what's managing the bottom end now before answering your question)

Jason

Slo, as Rick pointed out, the anechoic frequency response curve isn't accurate below 90Hz or so. I can assure you that in my room the M22s exhibit no "hole" in the 80-100Hz area, and with room reinforcement have good response down to about 50Hz.
This is in accord with the enclosure tuning, which the low point in the impedance curve(NRC graph )indicates is around 55Hz.

The effect that you describe may well be due to speaker placement and wouldn't be improved with the M50s. Further experimentation with placement may be useful, and in particular you should be careful to have the centers of the mid/woofer cones at unequal distances from the floor and two nearest walls.

The possible room effect that I mentioned wouldn't be due to standing waves, but rather sound reflections from nearby room surfaces causing peaks and valleys.

I had a Mirage OM-200 sub that died. I replaced it with a HSU STF-2. These measurements are across both subs. The sub in both cases is doing it's job (HSU is MUCH better on the low end) in the 80 to 120 Hz. range. Letting the sub handle the 80 to 120 Hz. range solves the problem except that a 120Hz. XO makes the sub locatable in the room.

I really doubt that this is a room issue. For starters it has manifested in two completely different rooms. Secondly, the Audyssey calibration is designed to offset room null problems. Thirdly, the Room EQ Wizard I've used in the new house clearly shows this issue even away from the main listening position. Finally, small differences in distance causing large amplitude changes (standing waves) is way more of a problem at 20-40Hz. than it is at 80-100Hz. and I'm not seeing any issues on the low end in either room.

Sounds like you have it all figured out then.

Audyssey set the M22s at 120hz? That does sound strange, even my QS8s get set at 60-80hz by Audyssey. What did it set the rest of your speakers at?

The 3808 has had a number of Audyssey updates, possibly the program has a glitch in the 2808?

The M50s will sound much closer to the M3s you have, if you want a brutally clear midrange in a floorstander then you need to go with the M80s or even the M60s, which are not as crisp in the midrange but are still very clear, IMO.

Axiom has a tradein program you could utilize to get rid of the M22s.

It could still be a set up problem seeing it was the same person, you, that set them up.

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Actually, it's still there.