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#229782 - 11/14/08 07:42 AM Re: M22 Ninja Master Crossover review. [Re: jakewash]
BlueJays1 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 4079
Loc: Porch,enjoying Bombay Sapphire
No you don't resemble that remark. I give you alot of credit for what you did. I know the majority (including myself) would not be willing to take the time you put into this matter. It really shows me your dedication and passion towards this hobby and the Axiom family.




Edited by Dr.House (11/14/08 07:43 AM)
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#229793 - 11/14/08 08:48 AM Re: M22 Ninja Master Crossover review. [Re: SRoode]
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16289
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
 Quote:
Higher quality components (and the Ninja does use very high quality components) will always make a difference

That's a blanket statement that is simply not universally true. I don't think Ian would be using the crossover components he is using if they harmed M22. Remember that the M22 has been refined through many (hundreds?) of hours of testing with the goal of creating the least-colored, most neutral sound reproduction possible.

Alan has touched on it already, but I'll repeat what he said. In repeated controlled blind tests, pretty much everyone favors the most neutral sounding speaker.

I have no doubt that the Ninja components have great specs, but specs are specs on paper. I'm willing to be that what makes the Ninja crossover sound different has much more to do with the different design than the quality of the components.
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#229814 - 11/14/08 11:38 AM Re: M22 Ninja Master Crossover review. [Re: pmbuko]
SRoode Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/20/08
Posts: 1200
Loc: Fishers, Indiana, USA
I never said that Ian used components that would harm the M22s, I said that the ones used in the Ninja are of higher quality. Would I be willing to pay for that crossover. Probably not, which is why I bought from Axiom.

I agree that I think the biggest contributor to the change in the sound is the modified crossover point.
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2 M80s, 1 VP180, 4 QS8s, 2 EP800s, 4 Algonquins, 2 M3 VaSSallos

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#229816 - 11/14/08 11:43 AM Re: M22 Ninja Master Crossover review. [Re: SRoode]
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16289
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
My response was mostly a statement of my own belief and faith in the process Ian uses to design his speakers. I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth. Honest.
_________________________
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#229826 - 11/14/08 12:59 PM Re: M22 Ninja Master Crossover review. [Re: pmbuko]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10399
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
I have been thinking of building the XO with lesser componets or the stock XO setting using the same components as with the Ninja's. Just trying to find the time to figure out how to set it all up and purchase the parts etc. this could take awhile, a very long while for me.
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Jason
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#229833 - 11/14/08 01:27 PM Re: M22 Ninja Master Crossover review. [Re: jakewash]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17789
Loc: NoVA
I'd love to see the results of that. It would be kind of cool if Ninja sold plans for his crossover, but that would probably get pirated pretty fast.


Edited by kcarlile (11/14/08 01:28 PM)
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#229834 - 11/14/08 01:32 PM Re: M22 Ninja Master Crossover review. [Re: SRoode]
JaimeG Offline
aficionado

Registered: 12/25/02
Posts: 556
Loc: Ashburn, VA
When I bought my M60 back in 2002, the m60s sounded too bright for my liking at the time. Alan suggested me to install a couple of resistors to the tweeters. To me, those resistors made somewhat of an improvement. A couple of years later I removed the resistor just to see if I could hear a difference, and hold and behold I heard an improvement as well; the resistors have been off ever since. My point is, I doubt anyone on this board has a trained ear to be able to tell what is better or worse sound when a change is relatively subtle. In my humble opinion, this product (ninja xo) is in the same category as the high-end audiophile/esoteric cables. The only difference is that a XO can indeed change the speaker sound signature; for the better? worse? I'm sure qualified people can argue this to death; it boils down to personal preference. But is this fuzzy 'personal preference' factor that companies like the SkingNinja and Monster exploits.
If you think a +$2,000 speaker wire is going to improve a speaker sound, well , here's another product that you might like: NinjaXO.

Side note: I used to pay +$150 for 15ft 1/4 plug cables for my keys/synthesizers; reason: durability & build quality; better sound was never a factor.



Edited by JaimeG (11/14/08 01:34 PM)
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#229839 - 11/14/08 01:41 PM Re: M22 Ninja Master Crossover review. [Re: JaimeG]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10399
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
I wouldn't put the Ninja products anywhere near the same category as Monster. Yes he has changed the XO point and altered the sound of the M22, of which there is no doubt(it is not subtle), unlike the unsubstantiated claims of Monster products. Whether or not the prospective buyer enjoys this change does come down to personal preference, which is why he offers the same money back guarantee as most other audio ID companies out there.
_________________________
Jason
-----------------
TTTHHHPPPPPTTTT!

My HT

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#229842 - 11/14/08 02:01 PM Re: M22 Ninja Master Crossover review. [Re: jakewash]
JaimeG Offline
aficionado

Registered: 12/25/02
Posts: 556
Loc: Ashburn, VA
 Quote:

I wouldn't put the Ninja products anywhere near the same category as Monster. Yes he has changed the XO point and altered the sound of the M22, of which there is no doubt(it is not subtle), unlike the unsubstantiated claims of Monster products.

I think that Ninjas claim of using better components than the stock m22 ox components would lead to improved sound still remains unsubstantiated. Now, I think we both agree in regards of changing the xo curves.
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The sailor does not pray for wind, he learns to sail. --Lindborg

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#229843 - 11/14/08 02:06 PM Re: M22 Ninja Master Crossover review. [Re: jakewash]
fredk Online   happy
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7139
Loc: Canada
Jaime. I think your point that sometimes the mere fact that it is a change makes it sound good is valid, but I agree with Jay.

Dr. Toole's research showed that overall all people, trained or otherwise, consistantly preferred the speakers with the flattest overall response. This is something that Alan has confirmed.

It would be nice if we could see anechoic measurements of the Ninja crossover to see exactly what is changing.
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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!

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