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EP 350 vs. EP 500
#242129 01/23/09 04:10 AM
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I know that there has been passing coments about both of these subs.
Has anyone done a direct comparison?
Does anyone have a 350 and wish they had gone for a 500 instead?
Does anyone have a 500 and think it's overkill?

Re: EP 350 vs. EP 500
BoB/335 #242133 01/23/09 04:18 AM
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I would think it depends on the size of the room they are used in Bob. I'd be willing to bet that for average rooms of about 2000 cu ft or less the 500 could be a bit much. Depends how much structural damage you want to do to your house!


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Re: EP 350 vs. EP 500
BoB/335 #242134 01/23/09 04:19 AM
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BTW, checked out your band, great stuff! \:\)


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Re: EP 350 vs. EP 500
Adrian #242135 01/23/09 04:21 AM
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Thanks on both accounts!

I asked on another thread but you seemed to have missed it. Why the Paradigm sub?

Re: EP 350 vs. EP 500
BoB/335 #242139 01/23/09 04:41 AM
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I heard the DSP 3400 (with P'digm Monitor series) and thought it went deep on the movie clips (esp Master and Commander), it seemed to have pretty good reviews and I should be able to get one locally for under $700 C. I don't honestly know how it would compare to Axioms, whether it would be comparable to the 350 or 500. The 500 (and 350) are both excellent subs as well, according to reviews, I just felt that the DSP3400 at that price seemed like a good deal. I was quoted $670 BEFORE Christmas, so I hope the price is still available.


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Re: EP 350 vs. EP 500
Adrian #242141 01/23/09 05:09 AM
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Just looked up the specs on the EP350 and EP500, strange the 350 is a bit heavier than the 500.


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Re: EP 350 vs. EP 500
Adrian #242148 01/23/09 06:38 AM
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Even the 350 will play plenty loud in an average size room, probably louder than you need. What it won't do is reach quite as low as the 500, so will have less impact on movies. I am willing to bet that the 350 will play as loud as the 500 as I believe they both have the same driver and cabinet. The difference is that the EP500 uses dsp (a form of eq) and more power to reach lower than the 350.

The thing with subs is that in order for a one to hit those low notes, particularly stuff below 20Hz, it needs a fair bit of displacement.

So, if you are in a small room, but want a sub that plays down to 15Hz, you need the same bigass sub that would fill a very large room. You just cant hit 15Hz with a 10" driver.


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Re: EP 350 vs. EP 500
fredk #242152 01/23/09 07:34 AM
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I have the EP500 in my little ~1300ft3 room and LOVE IT!!!! Then again, my wife and I are addicted to solid pounding base.
Besides, it's a lot better to underdrive to big than overdrive to small. ;\)
Not that the EP350 is any slouch. It's a great performer too.

Last edited by 80'sMan; 01/23/09 07:36 AM.

Epic 50 - 500 System ( M50 / QS4 / VP100 / EP500 )
Re: EP 350 vs. EP 500
80'sMan #242186 01/23/09 02:08 PM
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This depends on your room, your listening habits, how loud you like to set your sub, placement, etc...

I've owned the 350v1, ep500, 2 ep350v3s (currently, and and ep600 (currently). The new 350 blows away the orginial king of the hill 350 from a few years back, and in some respects rivals the 500. It won't play as low or as loud as the 500 by design, but the new 300 watt amp they have gone to is killer for the price.

Below is the thread Alan started when the 350v3 came out, comparing it to the 500 and other brand subs.

http://www.axiomaudio.com/boards/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=179265#Post179265


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Re: EP 350 vs. EP 500
SirQuack #242216 01/23/09 03:57 PM
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I agree with sirquack about the 350v3 vs the 500. I first received the 350v3, very awesome sub, let alone a great price for it. Then a couple of months later I added an EP500. The 350 was no slouch in my 3400 cf room. I wanted to add the EP500 for a smoother response with a dual sub setup, take advantage of the dsp addition, plus having a lower extension. Either way it's a win win situation for you.


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Re: EP 350 vs. EP 500
Ascension #242257 01/23/09 07:29 PM
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I have heard the 350 A/B'd with the 600 and the 350 holds it's own. I felt it had a little more punch to it for music than the 600 did, but for HT the extra depth and power of the 600 was noticeable and made for a better feel on impactful scenes. I have heard the EP500 recently, although it was not working right with a bad gain control but it seemed to me that the 500 has more of the same feel and impact the 600 does in a much smaller case.


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Re: EP 350 vs. EP 500
jakewash #242279 01/23/09 09:16 PM
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I just don't want to get the 350 and wish I had gotten the 500. Thanks again guys!

Re: EP 350 vs. EP 500
BoB/335 #242282 01/23/09 09:21 PM
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Bob, when's expected TOA on the speakers?


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Re: EP 350 vs. EP 500
Adrian #242284 01/23/09 09:30 PM
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Bob, you will still feel that way no matter what speaker you get, that is called upgradeitis, we all get it..


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Re: EP 350 vs. EP 500
Ascension #242286 01/23/09 09:42 PM
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Other than helping the sub to go lower, does DSP affect the sound clarity or help in other ways?


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Re: EP 350 vs. EP 500
Adrian #242289 01/23/09 09:47 PM
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The Axiom description certainly implies the DSP chip does a great deal more than help it go low. I'm curious how much it helps as well. I thought some one on here felt the 500 was better than the 600 b/c of the DSP, but I could be wrong on that.


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Re: EP 350 vs. EP 500
Zimm #242291 01/23/09 09:52 PM
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FYI, the 600 also employs the DSP chip.


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Re: EP 350 vs. EP 500
Zimm #242292 01/23/09 09:54 PM
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Question just answered re. 600 w DSP.

Last edited by Adrian; 01/23/09 09:55 PM.

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Re: EP 350 vs. EP 500
Adrian #242303 01/23/09 10:49 PM
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I was gonna say that I could not imagine the 600 NOT having the chip. Seems to be a rather large price difference just for a chip and a few more watts.

Estimated shipping date Feb 1

Re: EP 350 vs. EP 500
BoB/335 #242310 01/23/09 11:28 PM
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The EP400, 500 and 600 and 800(when it is available) all have DSP, which helps keep them from being over driven/bottoming out and maintain a nice flat response. I think how deep they reach is dependent on the driver and cabinet size more than the DSP.


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Re: EP 350 vs. EP 500
jakewash #242344 01/24/09 03:26 AM
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All I can say is that with the old EP350 a number of people on the board would quietly observe that there were other good sub vendors in the price range that might also be worth looking at. With the EP350v3 we don't seem to do that any more.

Between EP350 and EP500 it's primarily a function of room size, how loud you want to plan, and how much money you have ;\)

Seriously, even in a small room the EP500 would be "better", but as the room gets larger and/or you want to play louder the extra power helps and the DSP gives you a more intelligent limiter so that if you do push past the sub's limits you just get volume compression not that awful "grunk" sound.

How big is your room again ?


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Re: EP 350 vs. EP 500
Adrian #242374 01/24/09 01:19 PM
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 Originally Posted By: Adrian
I'd be willing to bet that for average rooms of about 2000 cu ft or less the 500 could be a bit much. Depends how much structural damage you want to do to your house!


Can the EP 500 be "a bit much"?

Re: EP 350 vs. EP 500
80'sMan #242375 01/24/09 01:22 PM
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 Originally Posted By: 80'sMan
I have the EP500 in my little ~1300ft3 room and LOVE IT!!!! Then again, my wife and I are addicted to solid pounding base.
Besides, it's a lot better to underdrive to big than overdrive to small. ;\)
Not that the EP350 is any slouch. It's a great performer too.


Re: EP 350 vs. EP 500
BoB/335 #242379 01/24/09 01:53 PM
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I really don't think the 500 would be overkill in any size room. From a volume capability perspective, yes, but much more important to me is how low a sub plays, and the 500 plays lower. Fred's response a few posts back is right on the money. You could put an EP350 and an EP500 in an 800 cubic foot room and still get the benefit of the lower extension of the 500 when watching movies.

If you have a moderately sized room, I'd make your selection between these two (or the competition) based more on how low a sub can play with flat response than how loudly it can play. If you're primarily a movie watcher, the extra punch in the low frequencies will be well worth it.

Jason


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Re: EP 350 vs. EP 500
myrison #242384 01/24/09 02:05 PM
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Re: EP 350 vs. EP 500
BoB/335 #242393 01/24/09 03:18 PM
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There is no overkill when it comes to subwoofers, the more the better, espcially for a flat frequency response throughout the room.


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Re: EP 350 vs. EP 500
BoB/335 #242401 01/24/09 04:02 PM
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 Originally Posted By: BoB/335


Axiom subs are not thought of with high regard on some other forums.

Re: EP 350 vs. EP 500
BoB/335 #242413 01/24/09 04:29 PM
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And I would wager that's by people who have never heard them.


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Re: EP 350 vs. EP 500
Ken.C #242415 01/24/09 04:31 PM
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I linked a thread twice.

Re: EP 350 vs. EP 500
BoB/335 #242437 01/24/09 05:04 PM
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Ken, yes that is normally the case. Most people on AVS and other forums that like to bash Axiom for being bright, harsh, etc. will even tell you it was hearsay, they've never actually heard Axioms.


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Re: EP 350 vs. EP 500
SirQuack #242443 01/24/09 05:18 PM
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It makes you wonder how many 'reviews' are simply based on hearsay or plaguerized from another source (mag, internet babble). As Fred pointed out, charts don't lie. I would suspect a lot of these people might be embarassed in a real A/B testing, regarding many brands, not just Axiom. Owners of the high $$ speakers would be less likely to do this I'm sure.


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Re: EP 350 vs. EP 500
SirQuack #242451 01/24/09 05:32 PM
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Bob. There have been a lot of advancements in subs in the last few years and it is probably the fastest changing and most competitive part of the industry.

Even in the DIY industry where two years ago there was only one supplier of large high excursion high quality drivers. At the time they were considerably more expensive than the competition. Now there are at least 4 different suppliers of extremely high quality high excursion drivers and relative to two years ago, they are very inexpensive.

There are commercial subs out there that reach a little lower than the EP600 and perform a little better for HT. They are appropriately priced.

If you look at the Craiglist people, I think you will find that they belong to the high spl extreme performance crowd that really belong more in the DIY arena: not Axiom's target market.

The MFW15 was poised to be a giant killer. It seems to have more than its share of issues.

With there being more and more good 15" drivers on the market, I would look for more changes and improvements in this arena.

Personally, I really agonized over this one and was not 100% on my decision to go with the EP350. As I have learned a lot more about sub design and have had a chance to use mine, I am convinced it was a good decision for me.

The EP350 seems to have more low end performance than the -3db point indicates and I am probably getting close to the same output at 20Hz as similarly priced competitors.

The big plus of the 350 is that it integrates so easily/well with my mains and delivers very clean upper bass.

You can pick up an SVS PB10NSD for cheap that reaches 20Hz, and it offers good value for HT, but, from reviews I have come across, gives up clarity for music to get there. That is a function of physics. To get a 10" driver down to 20Hz means you have to push it really hard. This introduces significant distortion and reduces clarity/detail.

Bottom line, Axiom is a music/sq first company and this is reflected in their design choices. That fits well with what I want.


Last edited by fredk; 01/24/09 05:34 PM. Reason: spelling bot made me do it

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Re: EP 350 vs. EP 500
Adrian #242453 01/24/09 05:36 PM
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 Quote:
I would suspect a lot of these people might be embarassed in a real A/B testing

Yes.

If you are really interested, buy the book by Toole that Johnk quotes from. I picked up another book on acoustics ahead of this one, but will get the Toole book soon.


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Re: EP 350 vs. EP 500
fredk #242465 01/24/09 07:16 PM
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 Originally Posted By: fredk


Personally, I really agonized over this one and was not 100% on my decision to go with the EP350. As I have learned a lot more about sub design and have had a chance to use mine, I am convinced it was a good decision for me.

The EP350 seems to have more low end performance than the -3db point indicates and I am probably getting close to the same output at 20Hz as similarly priced competitors.

The big plus of the 350 is that it integrates so easily/well with my mains and delivers very clean upper bass.



Thanks Fred, I too was agonizing a little. I'm glad I ordered the EP350, can't wait till Tuesday when it arrives!

Dana


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Re: EP 350 vs. EP 500
Dduval #242467 01/24/09 07:30 PM
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 Originally Posted By: Dduval
 Originally Posted By: fredk


Personally, I really agonized over this one and was not 100% on my decision to go with the EP350. As I have learned a lot more about sub design and have had a chance to use mine, I am convinced it was a good decision for me.

The EP350 seems to have more low end performance than the -3db point indicates and I am probably getting close to the same output at 20Hz as similarly priced competitors.

The big plus of the 350 is that it integrates so easily/well with my mains and delivers very clean upper bass.



Thanks Fred, I too was agonizing a little. I'm glad I ordered the EP350, can't wait till Tuesday when it arrives!

Dana


Agonizing. That's a good word.

Re: EP 350 vs. EP 500
BoB/335 #242470 01/24/09 07:37 PM
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I'm glad I could help.


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Re: EP 350 vs. EP 500
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Guys, don't agonize over the purchase of an Axiom sub, they perform great, as it is said, you can't believe everything you read.

For reference, last year I compared the EP600(mojo's) to the EP400, EP350v3, SVSPB12-nsd, SVS PB13-Ultra, Velodyne DLS5000R, Hsu STF3 and my old D-Box 350. I have also compared the EP350v3 with the Paradigm DSP3100, EP350v2 and the Paradigm to my old D-Box sub.


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Re: EP 350 vs. EP 500
jakewash #242537 01/25/09 12:37 AM
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Jay,
Someone on that other forum thought that Axiom subs were overpriced and that there were better for less money. What's your take on that.

Re: EP 350 vs. EP 500
BoB/335 #242543 01/25/09 01:04 AM
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I do think they are somewhat overpriced, the same as I feel their amp(s) is(are) overpriced. I especially feel the EP400 is way overpriced, but I am not the one making them and have no idea how much it costs them to produce.

I do know there are many subs and amps out there for less that perform as well, if not better,IMO, and I stress, MY OWN OPINION.


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Re: EP 350 vs. EP 500
BoB/335 #242621 01/25/09 03:49 PM
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 Originally Posted By: BoB/335
Jay,
Someone on that other forum thought that Axiom subs were overpriced and that there were better for less money. What's your take on that.


I think that's mostly a holdover from a few years ago when Axiom WAS priced high in comparison to sub-only companies that offered comparable/better performance for the money.

Since Axiom revamped the 350, though, I mostly think that blanket statement is far less true than it used to be.

That said, if I were to buy the two subs that I hope to add to my HT someday, I'm primarily looking to Outlaw where I can get two subs rated to 16Hz +/- 2dB for $1200. I'm always surprised that the Outlaw subs don't generate more discussion for low reach at a good price...better than what I've seen from Axiom, Hsu or SVS. Of course, for my small room, low reach is more important than huge output....


::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::
Re: EP 350 vs. EP 500
MarkSJohnson #242644 01/25/09 06:38 PM
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Hey Mark, you just proved his point, even the EP350v3 is overpriced when you look at things like the Outlaw, av123 MFW-15 dual systems. You spend quite a bit more money to get one DSP based Axiom sub or about $100 more for the EP350, in contrast the Paradigm DSP series of subs are cheaper, the DSP3200 can be bought for ~$650-700 cdn, and equal to the EP350/ EP500, IMO.


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Re: EP 350 vs. EP 500
jakewash #242649 01/25/09 07:12 PM
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That "overpriced" comment on the other thread was a recent post from a resident here. ;\) ;\)

I wouldn't touch a MFW-15 for anything. AV123 had a great Christmas special that lasted well into maybe the second week in January. Two Rocket 850's and TWO MFW-15 for $1800 I think. That caused me to really consider those until I ran across thread after thread and post after post of problem after problem.

Maybe I should look into the Outlaw sub. I think I will right now!

Re: EP 350 vs. EP 500
BoB/335 #242650 01/25/09 07:15 PM
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I prefer front loaded subs. I think they are more "musical"

Re: EP 350 vs. EP 500
jakewash #242656 01/25/09 07:35 PM
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 Originally Posted By: jakewash
Hey Mark, you just proved his point


Well, I guess my point was that there IS a grain of truth to it, witnessed by the fact that I'm favoring Outlaw at the moment.

But I don't think it's AS true as it was a few years ago, when the disparity was greater and pretty much across-the-board. And I think some people on forums take old information and re-post it as the current truth. They heard several times a few years ago that Axiom subs were not a good value, so they re-iterate it to others. There still might be some truth to it, but it's not as cut-and-dry as they make it sound, or as cut-and-dry as it used to be...


::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::
Re: EP 350 vs. EP 500
MarkSJohnson #242729 01/26/09 01:24 AM
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I have 2 EP500's and I can say they are not overkill in a 16x18x9 ft room. Having two subs, as said before, actually helps the room obtain a smoother frequency response. There are less "bad seats" and bigger "sweet spots" with multiple subs. Of course, I had to turn the subs down a bit since there were two of them instead of one, but the result is great.

Also, as far as subs from other companies, I'm sure that there are subs that perform as well, if not better than Axioms for the price. But, I like all of my speakers to "match" (same manufacturer). Seeing multiple manufacturers in my 7.2 setup would start to bug me after a while.

Another thing is that I am a sucker for customer service, and I can say first hand that I've never had better service from a company than I've had from Axiom. When I contacted them about the EP800's, I was offered a very generous trade in value for my EP500's. Many companies just don't do that, and it's one of the biggest reasons I went with Axiom in the first place, and intend to stay with them.


LFR1100 Actives,QS10HPx2,QS8x2,EP800,M3x4,M3x2 (Wood),M5HPx2 (Wood),AxiomAir,ADA1500-8,ADA1500-7
Re: EP 350 vs. EP 500
SRoode #242730 01/26/09 01:31 AM
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Those last two paragraphs are two of the biggest reasons I went with my EP600, despite what I thought was a hefty price tag for the performance.

Re: EP 350 vs. EP 500
CV #242743 01/26/09 04:11 AM
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They say there is no big deal about matching a sub with speakers. I can't help but think that there is a lot going on in R&D to help a developer's sub match seemlessly into their product line. So I understand the notion of staying with the same product line throughout. So I will stay with the Axiom sub and most likely stay with the 350. BUT I might still have another day or so to change my mind. Back to the torture process. (Oh wait! We don't allow torture anymore in this country!)

Re: EP 350 vs. EP 500
BoB/335 #242745 01/26/09 04:17 AM
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 Originally Posted By: BoB/335
(Oh wait! We don't allow torture anymore in this country!)

Not officially anyway, but there are many places in the world where it can be done on site.


Half of communication is listening. You can't listen with your mouth.
Re: EP 350 vs. EP 500
Adrian #242750 01/26/09 04:31 AM
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Not with our new President. Oh wait a minute. NO POLITICS and RELIGION>

Re: EP 350 vs. EP 500
BoB/335 #242753 01/26/09 04:36 AM
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 Quote:
Not with our new President

What, he's outlawing Bose? I think I like this guy.


Fred

-------
Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!
Re: EP 350 vs. EP 500
fredk #242767 01/26/09 05:06 AM
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Not only is he outlawing Bose here, but he's withholding aid from foreign countries that allow their citizens to freely choose Bose.

Re: EP 350 vs. EP 500
pmbuko #242781 01/26/09 11:54 AM
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Inigo,

I like the way you put that.

Re: EP 350 vs. EP 500
jakewash #244425 02/03/09 02:37 AM
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 Originally Posted By: jakewash
Hey Mark, you just proved his point, even the EP350v3 is overpriced when you look at things like the Outlaw, av123 MFW-15 dual systems. You spend quite a bit more money to get one DSP based Axiom sub or about $100 more for the EP350, in contrast the Paradigm DSP series of subs are cheaper, the DSP3200 can be bought for ~$650-700 cdn, and equal to the EP350/ EP500, IMO.


The DSP-3400 seems to be set at a fair price. I was wondering how that happened. The M80's are way cheaper than Studio 100's. Yet there doesn't seem to be that kind of price difference between the subs of both lines.

Re: EP 350 vs. EP 500
BoB/335 #244426 02/03/09 02:38 AM
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Mybe I should just get an EP-800

Re: EP 350 vs. EP 500
BoB/335 #244429 02/03/09 03:00 AM
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FedEx,

Deliver BoB/335 HT system ASAP!


I’m armed and I’m drinking. You don’t want to listen to advice from me, amigo.

-Max Payne
Re: EP 350 vs. EP 500
BoB/335 #244431 02/03/09 03:07 AM
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 Originally Posted By: BoB/335


The DSP-3400 seems to be set at a fair price. I was wondering how that happened. The M80's are way cheaper than Studio 100's. Yet there doesn't seem to be that kind of price difference between the subs of both lines.

Agreed, Bob. Paradigm is known for good value as far as store bought audio. The Studios are a little pricey compared to M80s but much less so compared to many other brands (excl. internet based). Not sure why their subs are priced where they are, but would suggest that perhaps it's a case of trying to grow in that area of the market. Paradigm are less known for their subs than their loudspeakers so maybe they are cutting their margins a little closer there.


Half of communication is listening. You can't listen with your mouth.
Re: EP 350 vs. EP 500
Adrian #244568 02/03/09 04:56 PM
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The DSP series of Paradigm sub is built entirely in China, thus the cost savings.


Jason
M80 v2
VP160 v3
QS8 v2
PB13 Ultra
Denon 3808
Samsung 85" Q70
Re: EP 350 vs. EP 500
BlueJays1 #244596 02/03/09 06:16 PM
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 Originally Posted By: Dr.House
FedEx,

Deliver BoB/335 HT system ASAP!

Don't hold back, use the full range of Doctor-speak.

Deliver him an HT system stat!


Bears, beets, Battlestar Galactica.
Re: EP 350 vs. EP 500
jakewash #244629 02/03/09 08:14 PM
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 Originally Posted By: jakewash
The DSP series of Paradigm sub is built entirely in China, thus the cost savings.

Jay, my DSP3400 clearly says;

Paradigm Electronics Inc.
Made in/Fabrique au Canada

on the mfg label(back).


Half of communication is listening. You can't listen with your mouth.
Re: EP 350 vs. EP 500
Adrian #244630 02/03/09 08:17 PM
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Silly man can't read French.

That means the Grill Fabrique was made in Canada.


::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::
Re: EP 350 vs. EP 500
MarkSJohnson #244631 02/03/09 08:18 PM
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Or...maybe the label itself?


Half of communication is listening. You can't listen with your mouth.
Re: EP 350 vs. EP 500
Adrian #244648 02/03/09 09:11 PM
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I just remember the inital product line was said to be built in China for the cost savings, could be something along the line of Axiom, all the components are built in China, but assembled together in Canada.


Jason
M80 v2
VP160 v3
QS8 v2
PB13 Ultra
Denon 3808
Samsung 85" Q70
Re: EP 350 vs. EP 500
jakewash #244687 02/03/09 11:03 PM
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 Originally Posted By: jakewash
I just remember the inital product line was said to be built in China for the cost savings, could be something along the line of Axiom, all the components are built in China, but assembled together in Canada.




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