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#242434 - 01/24/09 11:59 AM Re: Axiom vs. av123's Rockets [Re: Adrian]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 6969
Loc: Canada
RE: Craig and the Rocket vs Axiom thing.

1. The fact that the M80 has not changed significantly in the last 6 years is meaningless drivel. The better a product is, the more difficult it is to improve on.

2. He is affiliated with AV123. He is biased. I have yet to see a successful business owner that does not spin in his favour. It is par of building a successful business.

3. 'Easily bested'. Thats just spin. Both sets of speakers are very good and their individual characteristics will make them sound slightly different. The fact that he mentions fatigue without specifically calling the M80s fatiguing is pure BS/spin, particularly since he did not find them so in his initial reviews.

4. Quantify wherever possible. I have seen only two sets of independant measurements for AV123 products. The rocket 750 (older product) the xstatics. The 750 had a huge midrange hump which the reviewer noted. The extatics also have a midrange hump and considerably more distortion than the M80s. Both of these things will colour the sound.

The midrange hump will give the Rockets a warmer sound, which matches with comments from Rocket owners. It does not give them a bad sound, just warm.

5. Vinyl issues. More FUD!! In all my reading here, and I read a LOT, I have run into exactly one post from somebody having an issue with vinyl pealing. One!! POed customers are much more likely to post and there is only one.

The disgruntled AV123 customer thread shows that this company has some business issues that are probably growth, China manufacturing and recession/cash flow related. Without access to the inside, it is hard to say how serious any one of those issues might be.

The character of the 123 site is an interesting thing. MLS has an evangelical/stump speach style of doing business that cultivates a certain style of following. I personally have an 'alergic reaction' to that style of doing things. He also has the balls to be very open with issues on hist site, something I really admire. This invites a similar openess from posters.
_________________________
Fred

-------
Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!

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#242435 - 01/24/09 12:00 PM Re: Axiom vs. av123's Rockets [Re: Wid]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13311
Loc: Iowa
I would agree Rick, I don't know to many companies where the owner actually is willing to fly around the country to people's houses and help setup their systems. Sounds like pretty good Customer Service oriented practices to me.

Bob, for your information, AV123 has made things right with that person. Do you think Axiom has never had such issues, or any other manufacturer for that matter? Sure we are going to defend the company we believe in, why would AV123 be any different. You have hot been around long enough to remember the countless people that have come to our website and other forums (made 1 post and then dissapear) to trash Axiom. 9 times out of 10 it is just a simple misunderstanding, and things should have been handled differently than spewing crap on the forums.
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#242436 - 01/24/09 12:03 PM Re: Axiom vs. av123's Rockets [Re: fredk]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 6969
Loc: Canada
On HG cherry vinyl. Damn it looks good in person!! I was able to see both the vinyl and the real thing for both the cherry and the burled walnut and at any distance (2 feet or more) they are indistinguishable.

I think the only way to make wood look better would be a hand rubbed oil finish. something that really brings out the grain and gives it some depth.
_________________________
Fred

-------
Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!

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#242440 - 01/24/09 12:15 PM Re: Axiom vs. av123's Rockets [Re: fredk]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17699
Loc: NoVA
Funny, from looking at my Audiobytes and Peter's (in photos), both of which are burled walnut, I'd say that the wood finish and the HG vinyl finish are pretty different in appearance. I have the HG vinyl, and Peter has the veneer. Mine are lovely and certainly look like real wood, but they don't look the same as Peter's.
_________________________
I didn't do it, no one saw me, you can't prove anything.

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#242445 - 01/24/09 12:20 PM Re: Axiom vs. av123's Rockets [Re: fredk]
CV Offline
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 11066
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
 Originally Posted By: fredk
4. Quantify wherever possible. I have seen only two sets of independant measurements for AV123 products. The rocket 750 (older product) the xstatics. The 750 had a huge midrange hump which the reviewer noted. The extatics also have a midrange hump and considerably more distortion than the M80s. Both of these things will colour the sound.


So Danny Richie is a genius at humping?
_________________________
SuperGrand UltraDeluxe (Plus Extra More)

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#242446 - 01/24/09 12:22 PM Re: Axiom vs. av123's Rockets [Re: fredk]
michael_d Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3826
Loc: Up yonder
Listen to both, buy the set you prefer. These comparitive debates are pointless. It's impossible to tell anyone what kind of cool-aid they prefer.

If you want to know speciific information regarding Axiom products, ask away. You'll get specific responces.
_________________________


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#242448 - 01/24/09 12:22 PM Re: Axiom vs. av123's Rockets [Re: michael_d]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17699
Loc: NoVA
And Mike cuts to the chase.
_________________________
I didn't do it, no one saw me, you can't prove anything.

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#242452 - 01/24/09 12:34 PM Re: Axiom vs. av123's Rockets [Re: Ken.C]
Worfzara Offline
aficionado

Registered: 07/25/05
Posts: 709
Loc: London area, Ont, Canada
Remember here, vinyl is a man made material, where real wood, veneer, is a natural material. Because the man made material is manufactured under controled conditions, you know what you are going to get everytime. Real wood adds a small element of suprise. There are a whole host of varibles with veneer that you don't have with vinyl. Some people like some of the inconsistancies of the veneer, gives more of a natural look, and others, like myself, would rather have the perfect every time looking vinyl.

I think it's awsome Axiom lets you make the choice (if you can afford it).

paul
_________________________
paul

Axiom M80, VP180, Qs8, EP500
Panasonic PT-AU900
AudioTrak AT-6100
Denon AVR-990

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#242474 - 01/24/09 03:35 PM Re: Axiom vs. av123's Rockets [Re: Ken.C]
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16227
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
The primary difference btw real wood (especially with a high gloss finish) and veneer (regardless of finish) is that the wood gives you more "depth" -- meaning that the light reflects and refracts from more than just the surface. With veneer, even though it looks really nice, you get a flat look.
_________________________
"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

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#242475 - 01/24/09 03:41 PM Re: Axiom vs. av123's Rockets [Re: pmbuko]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17699
Loc: NoVA
Veneer is real wood, dude. You mean vinyl.
_________________________
I didn't do it, no one saw me, you can't prove anything.

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