Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners Axiom vs. av123's Rockets

Thaomas, are you implying that I'm perched on the fence?

I know exactly what you mean. There have been several speakers I've heard in less than ideal conditions and didn't much care for. Later I've heard them under better circumstances and had a differing opinion.

LOL! I was thinking you heard the Bigfoot at Dennis' until I remembered that he doesn't even have one. He uses an 850 for a center. DUH!

Hey Jack,

Thanks for taking the time to offer your thoughts on this thread. I as well as the others here (I'm sure) recognize the effort and passion that you bring to the discussion.

I agree that the Rocket 850 is a beautiful looking speaker and I can even tell just from the website. I was VERY interested in the special he had at Christmas into January which was 2 Rocket 850's and 2 MFW-15's. I spoke with MLS in person on the phone and he shared with me his 3% failure rate on the amps for the subs. Those were his words. I had little knowledge of that problem and absolutely NO IDEA of all the other problems he has.

"These, and other problems, have created some justifiably unhappy and angry customers. In the not too distant past, complainers have been poorly received by the regular forum members and would be shouted down, more often because of HOW they complained rather than simply because they were complaining (Bob, sorry you were turned off by this)."

I was in NO WAY turned off by the complaints on the forum or HOW anyone was complaining. I am a businessman myself. I would not like to dispute any loyalty or NOT that you may show towards Mark. What can NOT be disputed IMHO is his LACK of taking care of the many problems he has. He stages his replys with an "Oh me Oh my" LAME excuse making over and over again. FIX THE PROBLEMS and STOP belly-aching!!!!!!!!!!!! Don't try to defend this man. There is NO DEFENSE!

His Rockets may be great but he is LOWSY at running a business. Customer Satisfation is EVERYTHING in any business nevermind an internet based business that relys on customer support and word of mouth.

Sorry to go there but you did mention my name.

Bob, I am so sorry that you misinterpreted what I said. If you will look again, you'll see that I regretted you were turned off by complainers being poorly received and shouted down, NOT by the complainers themselves or their complaints.

" These, and other problems, have created some justifiably unhappy and angry customers. In the not too distant past, complainers have been poorly received by the regular forum members and would be shouted down, more often because of HOW they complained rather than simply because they were complaining (Bob, sorry you were turned off by this).

Also I regret that you chose to interpret what I had to say as "defending" anyone or anything. I merely offered explanations. I hope you will not confuse "explanations" with "excuses" or "justifications."

Jack,

I apologize for mis-reading that first quote. I guess it was statements such as:

"Mark has, time and again, admitted as much on the forum, and is doing all possible to rectify the situation."

I do NOT believe he is doing ALL possible. The more I read over there the more I see how LOOOOOOOOONGG this has been going on. Sorry but no excuse for that.

"And, there are those who have gone past the point of working to resolve a situation and are simply grinding an axe and seeking a pound of flesh which is as unreasonable and unacceptable as shouting down a legitimate complaint."

Good thing I am not in with this group. They would seem meek compared to how I would be handling this. Luckily for me and everyone here, I can exhibit the me (with my "other" character defects) that I prefer to exhibit.

Bob/335

I have to agree with you on how things are handled. With internet direct companies perception plays a big role and with a company message board you can get a "feel" what the company is all about. Its all about first impressions

I can't comment on their speakers ( I am sure they are a fine product) but I can see how each company runs their business through the internet. The main difference I percieve between these two companies is that Axiom is much more professional in the way they run their company and handle their matters through the internet. AV123 business to me seems to thrive on choas and spin control. AV123 owner seems like an incredible salesman. I am sure he could sell chewing gum to someone with lockjaw.

Excellent post Jack. I have been looking for a reasoned comparison between the rocket line and Axiom tower.


That was me and you are right, I should have mentioned that the 750 is discontinued. If you look at the anechoic measurements for the Xstatics, the other example I used as a 'yardstick', they also have a raised midrange.

Your comments on the M60 vs rocket 850 fits with what I have been guessing at. A raised midrange (as opposed to midrange hump [think camel]) will give a speaker a warmer sound and the rolled off highs is probably what gives them a more laid back sound. I am willing to bet that an anechoic graph of the 850 would look similar to the Xstatic.

I puzzled over the fact that both the M80 and the 850 had been compared to the Paradigm Studio 100, but now that I understand a lot more about how some things affect sound, it makes more sense.

If you found the M60 a little more detailed than the 850, the M80 will have more detail again. If you like that detailed live sound (like I do), then the M80 would be the ideal choice.

Technically a neutral speaker is one that produced exactly what it is fed, no broad rises of rolloffs in response. There, like it or not, Axiom gets the nod (with the plusses and minuses you noted). I am still willing to bet that the M80 is as close to neutral as you will get in that price range. That does not mean that the rockets will sound bad or even a lot different than the M60/80, just, as you noted, a little different.

Your comments about the center reflect the general consensus on center speaker design and is what drove me to use dual M2s as a center. The vertical alignment of the tweeter and mid drivers eliminates horizontal comb filtering and provides a better off axis response. The penalty for the better sound is that the bigfoot is quite tall for a center and doesn’t always fit into an equipment cabinet (not a good idea anyway).

I don't think that is quite right.

MLS has shown a lot of courage in talking about things that have gone wrong. Thats not spin control. All companies present their product in the best light.

He does seem to thrive on a certain type of promotion/showmanship that rubs me the wrong way, but he is a long way from spinning like a politician.

LOL! No kidding! Look at what I did to get my Bigfoot to fit in my TV stand. You can see the washers at the bottom of the pillars, and the rubber stopper at the top. Fortunately, my stand is modular and comes apart. The washers and stopper are obvious in this photo. In person, they are barely noticeable. I've not had one person mention them. The extra inch+ I gained enables me to put a couple of identical stoppers under the front edge of the Bigfoot (visible in the photo) which tilts it up toward my ears. Works great!



I'm certain there are those who decide against the Bigfoot because of its size. Personally, I couldn't do without mine.



My beloved EP500 is in the corner beneath the clock. After watching a movie, that clock is rarely in that same position. it tends to do some walking.

The reason I said that was with the person that had those problems and stirred the pot on various forums that Bob noted. Their owner created a sale on their forum with the name based on that person. I can only interpret that one way in which I noted above.