Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners One very important question! Denon 3808 and M80s

Murph,

Thanks for the suggestions. I picked up Brothers In Arms remastered CD and a BD of Dave Matthews & Tim Reynolds Live at RC. Watching/listening to D.M. now. Sounds nice. On the way home I was rocking to Mark Knopfler. I love that CD. The first two songs, So Far Away and Money for nothing will be great demo songs.

I got them at Best Buy, so poked my nose into their Magnolia listening room. They had Klipsch floor standing Icon WF-35's. They were somewhat similar set up as M60's except 3 5 1/4" drivers and only one crossover?? (per BB spec sheet at 2.5kHz).

It was not a very good room, but what I heard DM @ RC, sounded too pronounced on the highs. I now know how highs can be annoying as some have described. I understand Klipsch, due to hornss emphasize highs more than most speakers. It's been three weeks since I heard the Paradigm line up. I remember them being amazing (OK pleasing to my sound preference ;o). I guess the M60's just need to sound amazing to me without emphasizing highs more than my preference. It will be hard to remember where in the Paradigm line up, which increasing did an awesome job of filling the sound stage surprisingly mo' betta' with each jump up (Studio 20, 40, 60, 100).

I am looking forward to swinging by Adam's Thursday evening to hear his M60's. My color samples should arrive late this week from Axiom, so I should be able to make a speaker and color choice soon. Still would like to hear the M80's to see what all the "fan boys" are goin' on about too. As Foghorn Leghorn would say: "That's a joke... I say, that's a joke, son." <g>

"You gotta reach for them high ones"

This 'Fan Boy' says the M60s should suddenly open up at higher volumes, that open/airy sound is what the M80s achieve with low volumes. Listen for it during the demo, if you are able to crank them up. The 60s sound quite nice with low volume, then you reach a certain volume level and the soundstage opens up and the details really start to become more noticeable, this would be the sound that the M80s achieve at lower volume levels; at least that was what I found during my comparison, beyond that they are very similar.

Sounds like you are set. Eric Clapton unplugged is definitely a good quality recording. Be sure to take that one too. Adam will be cursing me for suggesting so many samples. Actually, I'm sure he will love to give you an extensive tour de sound.

Jay, can you expand on your descriptions. I understand you are describing your perception/opinion and that no one, even M80 owners, need be upset with your perception. I am not sure I understand your meaning with:
1) (M60's) "suddenly open up at higher volume." Does this mean the highs become more pronounced with M60's with high volume?

2) "60s sound quite nice with low volume" Does this mean that at med to low volume, lows, mids, highs are more even on M60's?

3) "(M60's) reach a certain volume level and the sound stage opens up and the details really start to become more noticeable."
Would you expand on what you mean by 'details' ?

4)So, do you feel the M80's exhibit more highs (detail??) through out the volume range and M60's 'highs' do not start coming on until higher dB levels? 75db? 85dB? 95db?**

**I just bought a Radio Shack digital sound meter. Now I can finally connect dB levels to my actual listening levels. :o)
For me, it seems that:
75dB- a normal level that my wife would prefer, but because I have some degree of hearing loss, I can miss some dialogue at 75dB. (this may change when I get my new Axiom center & fronts).
85dB- is a level I like better, but wife less so.
95dB- is VERY loud, even for me.

Jay, thanks for giving me something specific to be aware of when I demo the M60'.

Yea, I'll bring a variety of samplings AND my sleeping bag. You just can't rush these things! I should bring some bagels for breakfast to show my appreciation. LOL

Adam just sent a PM and said he was glad to have an excuse to turn the volume know up a bit more. :o) I told him to blame it on 'that guy' (me)! Adam was a great host. He had chips and dip and I brought the Canadian beer, aye. (Moosehead) Reminds me of rick Moranis and Bob Thomas as Bob and Doug McKenzie in Strange Brew. I loved those accents. Hey, you hoser! Back off you knob!

Rick Moranis and Dave Thomas. I couldn't let that go.

WAS? I missed the thread somewhere where you posted your thoughts... or haven't you posted yet?

Perhaps after the seventh or eighth moosehead, he forgot why he was there.

Who are you people. Get off my lawn and stop drinking my beer, you hosers!

I forget where I posted my thoughts on the M60's but here are my personal thoughts. But first, I really appreciate Adam opening up his house to me and being a super host.

Now, my only frame of reference for recently hearing quality speakers, was a good 5 weeks before at my local Paradigm dealer. I heard all their Studio Series A/B/C/D/E'ed. ;o)
20's all the way up through the 100's were very good. As I moved my way up the series, each step impressed me at how the sound field grew and deepened. The 100's were amazing. I wanted to hear them demo'ed on a 1909, but the owner had already had all the speakers I had requested to hear hooked to a 2808 or 3808.

I do not know why, but when I heard the M60's (stereo music), I was surprised that I was not that wowed. Just now thinking back, it seemed like the couch was closer to the fronts and screen (maybe 7' or so?) than at my place 12'. In the big open room at the HT showroom, I might have been 16'back. I am just realizing that may have been the challenge. I do not know what effect hearing the Paradigms in a larger environment with higher end amp would have.

I feel bad about saying anything negative because Adam was awesome to let me come hear his M60's and a great host. I do not have the vocabulary to make a detailed description of what did not sound right, other than to say that I did not hear the wide full sound stage with just the 60's in stereo. But when he put on the war movie, it sounded very good. So good, after realizing I had been watching for maybe 15-20 mins., that I could easily sit and enjoy he whole movie! I had to pull myself away, so I could Adam get back to his stuff. I did not want to overstay my welcome. Now if it was Mark, Randy, Soundofmind, Jay or Dean who I go back many days with :o), no problem waiting to be booted out. Of course if was Tom, I'd of had to bring a case of good beer and helped him finish it off!

At this point, I have just ordered both the 60's and 80's and will return one of the pairs. I will have a larger environment here at home, but I don't think the 1909 has any edge over Adams AVR and is just a hair less powered than his 100watt.

As I said before, Huge thanks and appreciation to Adam for opening his home to a me. He was a great host!


Bummer to need to wait 4 wks (+1 shpg). Christmas cannot come too soon.
PS. Oops! The Bob & Doug Mckenzie names made me call Dave..> Bob. I'm soory, aye. (What a nob, Jay for not letting it pass thooough! What are yoou from the states, aye. Figures...)