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Re: Outlaw and Emotiva products...?
Micah #249392 02/28/09 03:01 AM
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No, Micah; that isn't a fact, it's unsubstantiated nonsense. If a unit has sufficient power to meet the needs of the program material at sane sound levels(as typical modern receivers selling for a few hundred dollars do), there's nothing else that can be accomplished. Unused headroom is simply that: unused.


-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.


Re: Outlaw and Emotiva products...?
Micah #249411 02/28/09 03:50 AM
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 Originally Posted By: Micah
 Originally Posted By: Zimm
I can't decided if I should be envious of Wid for his Rotel Amp or laugh at him for wasting money.



Be envious


Yes, that is where I went by default. I'm thinking a seperate Rotel would make my system sound much better than my Denon AVR 3300. But that article says...not so much. I guess Wid needs to mail it down to me for an in-house test. Sounds fair to me. I could send up a pair of Bose 301's for him to compare to Axioms. Think about it.


Panny 3000 PJ, 118" Carada, Denon 3300, PS3, Axiom QS8, PSB 5T, B&W sub, levitating speaker wire
Re: Outlaw and Emotiva products...?
Zimm #249412 02/28/09 03:58 AM
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That almost sounds good BUT I gave away a set of Bose 901s.


Rick


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud

Re: Outlaw and Emotiva products...?
Wid #249413 02/28/09 04:04 AM
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It was worth a try. I really like Rotel. A friend has a new Rotel AVR matched with a set of B&W 600s and it is fantastic.


Panny 3000 PJ, 118" Carada, Denon 3300, PS3, Axiom QS8, PSB 5T, B&W sub, levitating speaker wire
Re: Outlaw and Emotiva products...?
Zimm #249415 02/28/09 04:10 AM
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Never hurts to try \:\)


Rick


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud

Re: Outlaw and Emotiva products...?
Wid #249459 02/28/09 09:01 AM
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 Originally Posted By: wid
That almost sounds good BUT I gave away a set of Bose 901s.


then we have something in common


getting to 2,000 posts; one year at a time vp160/qs8/qs4/ep350/m60/m2200s
Re: Outlaw and Emotiva products...?
JohnK #249530 02/28/09 07:16 PM
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 Originally Posted By: JohnK
If a unit has sufficient power to meet the needs of the program material at sane sound levels(as typical modern receivers selling for a few hundred dollars do), there's nothing else that can be accomplished.



I agree with you, at sane levels most modern recievers are practically faultless. It's those 'insane' times that I've refering to.

You know, like when you have 20 drunk friends over for a party and (insert song of choice here) comes on and one of your buddies screams, "dude that's my song, CRANK IT"!!! Not many low to mid grade recieves sound very pretty once you push them past the 90 - 95% mark. Not in my experience anyway.

Then there was my buddy Pat Trotter, a high school friend of mine I ran into in my mid 20's. He invited me over to his house to hang out and talk about old times and when I got there I saw and became interested in his stereo 'rack' system. It contained at least 3 separate Harmon Kardon pieces, I couldn't tell you what model or anything (I was still completely wet behind the ears about all this stuff at the time), all I can truely remember was the ubber cool little handels they had on either side. He may or may not have been using Harmon Kardon speakers, I really didn't notice, but the music he played sure sounded great. Then he said, "wanna see how loud these play"?

"Well of course, are you kidding... let her rip bro"!!! I unwittingly replied. A quick turn of the knob (and I don't rightly know if it was 50%, 75% or 100% to be honest) suddenly filled the room with terrorizingly loud music, we're talking complete insanity... but at the same time it was clear, undistorted, and totally composed. I seriously doubt he had a subwoofer, because I don't remember an onrush of bass. All I remember was throwing both hands over my ears .8 seconds into the experience because it was far too much to take. This was no critical listening experience, it was just a demonstration of sheer power!

So the question is, is something like that practical? Not really. Is it for everyone? Certainly not. Will it be used very often? I highly doubt it. But the same can be said about the 175 hp my motorcycle pumps out at the rear wheel. That kind of power pushing a 400 pound two wheeled vehicle down the road is absolutely insane! And, well... me likey. \:\)


My Stuff :

M80's
QS8's
VP150
EP800
Denon 4802
Emotiva XPA-3
Samsung BD-P3600
Sharp 65 Inch Aquos LCD
Re: Outlaw and Emotiva products...?
Micah #249553 02/28/09 10:13 PM
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You guys are comparing a few watts to a few watts.

A decade ago, someone posted Stereo Review power output findings on the web. What it showed was that manufacturer's ratings mean nothing. I seem to recall where a Denon receiver rated at 90X5 or 100X5 only actually met its rating with one channel driven. If all channels were driven, it struggled to produce more than 20 or so wpc.

All receivers and amps are not created equal. Discrete channels reduce crosstalk. This is plainly audible. Better and bigger power supplies mean the difference between producing 20% more than the rated power with all channels driven and producing 20% of the rated power when all channels are driven.

Many receivers are rated as X amount of power per channel from 50-20kHz. this won't get it done in the real world either. This takes away over an octave of the lowest bass. Of course, who cares when everyone has powered subs.

Don't let Consumer Reports fool you. Power is not all the same. How about speaker impedances? Try driving nominal 4 ohm speakers that dip into the 2 ohm range with a $150 Technics receiver. First, the receiver gets warm. Then it gets hot. If it has a thermal overload protection circuit it shuts down. If not, it lets all of its smoke escape. We all know that electronics run on smoke, and once it escapes it doesn't work anymore.

Good amplification can drive complex loads with low impedances and low efficiencies. Poor amplification can not.

To notice a difference in volume, you need to double the power. To notice what we perceive as double the volume, we need 10 times the power. An amp with a small power supply that is rated at 100X5, yet really only puts out 20X5 if all channels are driven, can not be expected to perform as loudly or as cleanly as an amp that is rated at 100X5 and has a power supply that allows it to actually produce 120X5 with all channels driven. Not only that, but the less capable amp will invariably heat up to a point where the circuitry will begin to deteriorate, shortening its life. Heat is a major killer of electronics.

Just my opinion.

Bill

Last edited by willscary; 02/28/09 10:14 PM.

"Life, liberty, and the persuit of happiness"...Go Packers! and Go Badgers!
Re: Outlaw and Emotiva products...?
willscary #249555 02/28/09 10:23 PM
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I don't know, i have an A1400-8, it seems to hit that insane moment..when everyone is out of the house. Its a very nice amp and doesn't cost to much.


M80-QS8-VP150-EP600-A1400-8
STR-DA5300ES BDPS5000ES.

Mark
Re: Outlaw and Emotiva products...?
Family Man #249575 03/01/09 01:22 AM
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 Originally Posted By: Family Man
I don't know, i have an A1400-8, it seems to hit that insane moment..when everyone is out of the house. Its a very nice amp and doesn't cost to much.



Really? A $4000 dollar amp isn't 'too much' in your opinion? Ha ha, I'd like to have your bank account my friend! \:o


My Stuff :

M80's
QS8's
VP150
EP800
Denon 4802
Emotiva XPA-3
Samsung BD-P3600
Sharp 65 Inch Aquos LCD
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