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#251970 - 03/16/09 04:16 PM Re: SC-05, in the house. [Re: ClubNeon]
Zimm Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/08/08
Posts: 1361
Loc: New Orleans
 Originally Posted By: ClubNeon
I've not tried the Faroudja DCDi in my Pioneer receiver (since the Elites don't scale HDMI, the lowly standard models definitely don't). But I have an older Pioneer Elite DV-79AVi flagship DVD player, and a PDP-5020 Kuro plasma, along with my PS3. While the PS3 is rated good at enhancing detail while scaling DVDs, it isn't as good some of the newer scaler chips.Of the scalers I own and have been able to test I rate them in this order:

PS3: Very good, but doesn't do film cadence detection and scales the 240 lines of each field of 480i directly to 1080p/60.


See, I am just still very impressed the PS3 is even in the discussion. My TV is a fill in until I can get a projector so I have not been overly concerend with video details to this point, but your experience is very helpful. I mentioned to Peter the other day that a recent review of new projectors said the Reon chip was the best of the group. The other was in-house Sony, and I think the Panny used DCDi, but I might have that wrong. So I was thinking the Onkyo might actually do a really good job.
_________________________
Panny 3000 PJ, 118" Carada, Denon 3300, PS3, Axiom QS8, PSB 5T, B&W sub, levitating speaker wire

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#251977 - 03/16/09 04:26 PM Re: SC-05, in the house. [Re: Zimm]
cb919 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/17/09
Posts: 1041
Loc: Ottawa, Canada
Well guys, all I can say about Oppo is that as soon as the BDP version is available to the regular Joe I will be ordering one. I love the PS3 as well, but I really do notice a difference watching upscaled DVD's on my PS3 vs. my Oppo 981 - less jaggies and motion artifact in general with the Oppo (I am not a video expert but certain things do annoy me). Sorry Zimm, but I thought you needed to know \:D

Peter - get an Oppo and forget about upscaling features in your AVR as you suggested

As for the SC-05 (to try and keep this thread on track), I do think it's about the audio quality primarily so I am still leaning towards the SC-05. I agree with your wife Peter! My only concern is regarding the crossover settings. For my setup I will need to set the crossover in the 80 to 100 Hz range. The SC-05 allows 80 or 100 and others but not 90 Hz (thanks for the info Peter). Does anyone think this would be a serious shortcoming with W22's, W150 and QS8's having to choose between 80 and 100Hz crossover?
_________________________
Dan
In/On Wall 500 w M2 Center Channel

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#251979 - 03/16/09 04:33 PM Re: SC-05, in the house. [Re: cb919]
PeterChenoweth Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 10/23/03
Posts: 1349
Loc: Jacksonville, IL
Yes, I ought to agree with my wife more often too. In the end, she's usually right. \:\) I see no reason why this AVR debacle is any different. ;\)

I'd say that in your situation, the 80/100 xover is not a problem.

When my setup was M22's + VP150 + Energy Take5 surrounds, I kept it at an 80hz crossover. It worked well. 80hz is a good xover for M22's and the VP150. I assume that the w versions are similar. If 90 is optimal, then I doubt you'd have issues running 80 or 100. You're just shifting a tiny amount of bass between speakers & sub. NBD, IMHO. If you needed a 200hz crossover and your AVR could only do 80hz, that would be a problem.

With the M80's, I'd like to cross them at more like 50hz but leave the VP150 + QS8's at 80hz. The idea that this new state-of-the-art near-flagship receiver can't do it just irritates me. I'm easily irritated by little quirks like that.

To be fair, I've read at least one article (which of course, I can't remember where) that says that independent crossovers can cause problems in a setup, and that most users are better off with just a global xover anyway. Probably one sponsored by Pioneer.
_________________________
M80v2 | VP150v2 | QS8v2
SVS Pci+ 20-39
Emotiva UMC-1 & LPA-1
M22ti + T-Amp, in the Office

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#251984 - 03/16/09 04:45 PM Re: SC-05, in the house. [Re: PeterChenoweth]
ClubNeon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/06/09
Posts: 3448
Loc: Western Maryland, USA
It is harder (perhaps impossible?) to maintain phase coherence between different cross-over points and/or slopes, even when done in the digital domain.
_________________________
Pioneer VSX-1018AH-K, PDP-5020FD, DV-79AVi
Axiom M22s, VP150, QS8s
Sony PS3, surround backs
-Chris

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#251987 - 03/16/09 04:47 PM Re: SC-05, in the house. [Re: PeterChenoweth]
thedude_044 Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 07/07/05
Posts: 22
Loc: Mich
For the previous mentioned reasons I await the first thread on the latest NAD-Oppo combo. That's my goal if it ever happens to mesh. My Pio-Technics-Kenwood days are long gone. \:\) *ducks*
_________________________
M22's VP150 QS8's Onkyo TX503 Yamaha YST215 (sub)

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#251988 - 03/16/09 04:49 PM Re: SC-05, in the house. [Re: ClubNeon]
Zimm Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/08/08
Posts: 1361
Loc: New Orleans
How so? I though you were just cutting off the frequency to certain speakers. Why would the absence of freq at 60hz for example, cause the L/R tower crossed at 40 to be out of phase with the center crossed at 80 and SR/SL crossed at 80?

Just asking, I don't know the answer.
Edit: Hell, i don't even know what my question means, much less the answer to it. \:\(


Edited by Zimm (03/16/09 04:50 PM)
_________________________
Panny 3000 PJ, 118" Carada, Denon 3300, PS3, Axiom QS8, PSB 5T, B&W sub, levitating speaker wire

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#251990 - 03/16/09 04:51 PM Re: SC-05, in the house. [Re: thedude_044]
Zimm Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/08/08
Posts: 1361
Loc: New Orleans
 Originally Posted By: thedude_044
For the previous mentioned reasons I await the first thread on the latest NAD-Oppo combo. That's my goal if it ever happens to mesh. My Pio-Technics-Kenwood days are long gone. \:\) *ducks*


Audio Advisor is running a deal on NADs with the BR player in for free. In case you had not seen that.
_________________________
Panny 3000 PJ, 118" Carada, Denon 3300, PS3, Axiom QS8, PSB 5T, B&W sub, levitating speaker wire

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#251991 - 03/16/09 04:51 PM Re: SC-05, in the house. [Re: Zimm]
PeterChenoweth Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 10/23/03
Posts: 1349
Loc: Jacksonville, IL
 Originally Posted By: Zimm
How so? I though you were just cutting off the frequency to certain speakers. Why would the absence of freq at 60hz for example, cause the L/R tower crossed at 40 to be out of phase with the center crossed at 80 and SR/SL crossed at 80?

Just asking, I don't know the answer.


Ditto.

If multiple xover points *are* a problem, them why is it that Audyssey supports it? Pure marketing gimmick? I mean, the 3808 & 876 both allow independent xovers. No one seems to complain about their 3808 having phase problems. And just like Zimm, I'm just curious, I don't know either!
_________________________
M80v2 | VP150v2 | QS8v2
SVS Pci+ 20-39
Emotiva UMC-1 & LPA-1
M22ti + T-Amp, in the Office

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#251993 - 03/16/09 04:54 PM Re: SC-05, in the house. [Re: PeterChenoweth]
Zimm Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/08/08
Posts: 1361
Loc: New Orleans
Not a new issue, my AVR lets you set small or large for each set of speakers. So it sets 80 for the smalls and none for the large. But I have never understood that would cause phase problems. If so, I wonder if Audessey fixes it? I've never heard that, but they damn well should.
_________________________
Panny 3000 PJ, 118" Carada, Denon 3300, PS3, Axiom QS8, PSB 5T, B&W sub, levitating speaker wire

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#251994 - 03/16/09 04:57 PM Re: SC-05, in the house. [Re: Zimm]
ClubNeon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/06/09
Posts: 3448
Loc: Western Maryland, USA
But it isn't just a "cut", it is a filter. In the analog world of discrete component filters, a filter will always alter phase. Now in the digital domain is it possible to filter the frequency and compensate for time (so now it may be possible, just hard).

Filters at different frequencies (cross-over points) will result in different phase changes.

How much of a problem this is depends on how picky the listener is, and the similarity of the content between dissimilar speakers. Say the fronts are crossed at 40 Hz, and the surrounds at 80, and the low-pass portion of the filter is being routed to the same sub. If there is similar content between the front and rear the phase differential will cause a comb-filter effect in the signal which is being sent to the sub.
_________________________
Pioneer VSX-1018AH-K, PDP-5020FD, DV-79AVi
Axiom M22s, VP150, QS8s
Sony PS3, surround backs
-Chris

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