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#256236 - 04/09/09 03:06 PM Re: Pictures... first batch [Re: tomtuttle]
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16289
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
The squirrel appears to be drinking it now.
_________________________
"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

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#256258 - 04/09/09 07:22 PM Re: Pictures... first batch [Re: pmbuko]
Rock_Head Offline
aficionado

Registered: 10/10/04
Posts: 870
Loc: Delta, BC, Canada
That looks like a pint of Guinness \:\)

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#256396 - 04/11/09 02:51 PM Pictures, second batch. More observations. [Re: Rock_Head]
davekro Offline
aficionado

Registered: 02/12/09
Posts: 562
Loc: Discovery Bay, CA
1) Today's pictures first, 'cuz, gosh darn it, people like 'em. ;\)
All Pictures
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M60s moved away so M80's sound is not affected by their proximity. M80s are spaced 8 1/2' apart.

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QS8 7.1 backs, view from front on temporary stands. In this first test location, Q's are:
- 12' apart
- 5' behind primary listening position (Randy, Rick and others with back wall far behind 7.1 ceiling mounted Q's... What distance behind the primary listening position and how far apart are your back Q's mounted? )
- 10" from ceiling
- not tilted

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QS8 stands, side view. Hey, maybe I won't ceiling mount the back Q's. Maybe I should just slap a maple stain on the stands and call them a 'feature'. \:D I think Julie would approve. Ha, Ha!

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2) Late last night after getting the stands completed, mounting/wiring the Q's and placing them in their first test position, I ran Audyssey on the new Axioms for the first time.

I was blown away! The surround sound for ZZ Top and The Dark Knight BD's was amazing after Audyssey and now with Q's 5' behind list. pos. instead of small bookshelfs 16' away on back wall! ! ! To repeat what I had said before, IMO, in a very large space (31'x23'x 9' in my case), the M80s do a noticeably better job than the M60s. The sound stage is much fuller, richer and deeper with the M80's.

3) Interesting outcome on crossovers that Audyssey set:
- FL +7.0, large/40Hz (I changed to small/80hZ)
- FR +7.0, large/40Hz (I changed to small/80hZ)
- CC +3.5, 80Hz (good)
- SW +1.0 (cool!) LFE/80Hz (from my manual settings)
- SL +6.5, 90Hz (I changed to 80hZ)
- SR +6.5, 90Hz (I changed to 80hZ)
-SBL +6.0, 150Hz (I changed to 80hZ)
-SBR +5.0, 150Hz (I changed to 80hZ)

4) The SPL of the Audyssey 'boinks' (test tones) for all speakers was between 62-65dB on the RS SPL meter at the 12' primary list. pos. Does Audyssey increases ch. levels to get SPL to 75dB? Is that why most ch. levels are set +6 to +7?
Also, I was puzzled that the ch. levels set for the far more efficient (95dB) Axioms was .5 to 1.0 higher than the 90dB sensitivity Bic V-52's (these were at FL,CC,FR,SBL,SBR)!
_________________________
Dave

"In theory, practice and theory are the same. In practice they're not."

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#256398 - 04/11/09 03:38 PM Next to decide/ test. (Alan, any comments? :) [Re: davekro]
davekro Offline
aficionado

Registered: 02/12/09
Posts: 562
Loc: Discovery Bay, CA
[WARNING: If you dislike over analyzing information... "Move Along! Nothing to see here."]
But if you major in 'too much (analysis) is never enough!' read on. Charles, come on in. The water is warm, just how you like it.


Back 7.1 QS8'S
The next things for me to decide on is if I should tilt my back QS8's slightly. Also, any recommendation on either moving Q's any further than 5' behind the primary list. pos. -OR- altering the 12' apart spacing? (fronts are 8 1/2' apart, SL & SR are 23' apart) At 12' apart the backs are ≈ in line with the outside ends of the couch seating positions.

Alan, I know the QS8's are VERY forgiving in their location, but would you have a recommendation on distance behind list. pos. and spacing apart, in my large room?

On, 'to tilt or not to tilt'... My non scientific WAG might think that tilting Q's down a few degrees might:
- let tweeters reflect off side walls down to the ear level as opposed to reflecting around mostly in the upper part of the room. (no idea if much of the highs would actually stay up there!)
- top driver. Rather than reflecting straight off the ceiling, would a slight tilt forward cause more of that drivers reflected sound from ceiling to go more directly to the listening pos.?
- bottom driver. It would be directed slightly back away from the list. area, so I'd guess most of it's sound would be dissipated. But not much, if at all more than it firing directly down to the (hardwood) floor??

I am thinking the best chance I have at trying to hear any subtle differences between 1' foot or so moves of the back Q's would be to pull the banana plugs for all speakers from the1909, except SBL & SBR, them play a good surround BD like Wall-E that engages the surrounds a lot. Any other ideas on how to demo different back Q locations gladly accepted. \:\)

OCD in full gear!
_________________________
Dave

"In theory, practice and theory are the same. In practice they're not."

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#256405 - 04/11/09 04:20 PM Re: Speakers just arrived! Question. [Re: RickF]
davekro Offline
aficionado

Registered: 02/12/09
Posts: 562
Loc: Discovery Bay, CA
 Originally Posted By: RickF
Congrats Dave ... you know the drill regarding new digs, pictures and posting. ;\)

What'r you doing, keeping whichever set of speakers you fancy and sending the others back, regarding the 80s and 60s?


Yes, I will be sending back the one's that I do not feel work as well in my room. (the M60's)
_________________________
Dave

"In theory, practice and theory are the same. In practice they're not."

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#256412 - 04/11/09 05:47 PM Re: Speakers just arrived! Question. [Re: davekro]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8293
Loc: Tacoma
Dave, I have nothing helpful to offer, but wanted to thank and congratulate you for doing a great job with analysis and documentation. I think your journey will really help other people.

Even if you chose the wrong mains. \:\)

I had a similar occurrence with Audyssey and the QS8's (a pretty high xover point). Weird.

Will you be using the Ceiling FMB for the QS8's? My inclination would be to use that method AND to angle them a bit.

Have a fun weekend!
_________________________
bibere usque ad hilaritatem

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#256414 - 04/11/09 05:54 PM Re: Speakers just arrived! Question. [Re: tomtuttle]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13340
Loc: Iowa
Dave, I don't believe it is Audyssey that sets the crossovers, it is the receiver. They now use a standard 40hz as the determination point I believe, which is why the 80's came out large. Audyssey recommends changing them to small, but not neccesarily all to 80hz.
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#256417 - 04/11/09 06:16 PM Re: Speakers just arrived! Question. [Re: SirQuack]
fredk Online   happy
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7133
Loc: Canada
...and with an M60 center?
_________________________
Fred

-------
Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!

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#256420 - 04/11/09 06:45 PM Re: Speakers just arrived! Question. [Re: SirQuack]
dewd Offline
local

Registered: 05/05/08
Posts: 200
Loc: Mechanicsburg, PA, USA
 Originally Posted By: sirquack
Dave, I don't believe it is Audyssey that sets the crossovers, it is the receiver. They now use a standard 40hz as the determination point I believe, which is why the 80's came out large. Audyssey recommends changing them to small, but not neccesarily all to 80hz.


To add to this, Audyssey measures the response of the speakers in your room. If you change them from 150 hz down to 80 hz, you could potentially be missing parts of the range in between. It is safe to adjust up, but not down.
_________________________
Dave
Audyssey Setup Guide

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#256421 - 04/11/09 06:53 PM Re: Speakers just arrived! Question. [Re: dewd]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13340
Loc: Iowa
True Dave, I forgot about Chris mentioning that on AVS. \:\)

Hey, just checked your website, looks like the pictures are not loading? Also, I just started a thread in the technical area about considering a new Onkyo, if you have any feedback that would be great.. \:\)
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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