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#256466 - 04/12/09 08:14 AM Re: Speakers just arrived! Question. [Re: Captain4105]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7042
Loc: Canada
I would agree with Jay, though you really can't go wrong with either speaker.
_________________________
Fred

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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!

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#256478 - 04/12/09 12:11 PM Re: Speakers just arrived! Question. [Re: fredk]
dewd Offline
local

Registered: 05/05/08
Posts: 200
Loc: Mechanicsburg, PA, USA
Also, I believe it is safe to say that all modern receivers will be are "complicated". It is not just Denon.
_________________________
Dave
Audyssey Setup Guide

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#256480 - 04/12/09 01:09 PM Re: Speakers just arrived! Question. [Re: SirQuack]
davekro Offline
aficionado

Registered: 02/12/09
Posts: 562
Loc: Discovery Bay, CA
On iPhone today. Will reply later. K e y. P a d...
S L. O
_________________________
Dave

"In theory, practice and theory are the same. In practice they're not."

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#256484 - 04/12/09 02:25 PM Re: Pictures... first batch [Re: fredk]
davekro Offline
aficionado

Registered: 02/12/09
Posts: 562
Loc: Discovery Bay, CA
 Originally Posted By: fredk

Say, there are 60s in that picture. I missed that while admiring those beautiful M80s.


I cannot recall why I ordered two M60's to test out as a center channel??? ;\)

PS. Fred, I have yet to plug an M60 in to test as a center. To keep it there, I'd need to raise the 73" DLP andit's stand 12 - 18". Probably no big deal to suspend from the ceiling. That way if I ever decided to get an M80 center, it would be easy to just shorten large suspension chains! \:D

EDIT: I get to use sister-in-laws lap top for a while. sweeeet! <he says in his best Cartman impression...>


Edited by davekro (04/12/09 02:31 PM)
_________________________
Dave

"In theory, practice and theory are the same. In practice they're not."

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#256629 - 04/13/09 10:17 PM Re: Speakers just arrived! Question. [Re: Captain4105]
davekro Offline
aficionado

Registered: 02/12/09
Posts: 562
Loc: Discovery Bay, CA
Lee,
Do not be scared off by the Denon manual. It is more of a running joke over on AVS forums. There is excellent support over there for setting up the Denons. IMHO, all newer AVR's are hard to understand by mere mortals. ;\) In your sized room, with a sub, you should be happy with the M60's. In my large room, I felt the M80's did a better job of pushing more air to fill my space and hence sound fuller. YMMV.
_________________________
Dave

"In theory, practice and theory are the same. In practice they're not."

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#256631 - 04/13/09 11:28 PM Re: Speakers just arrived! Question. [Re: davekro]
davekro Offline
aficionado

Registered: 02/12/09
Posts: 562
Loc: Discovery Bay, CA
I believe tilting the back QS8's so that the top woofer reflection goes directly to the ear ht at list. pos. will be good. This makes tweeters at a good angle to ears as well.

Also, I thought I had a reason why the back QS8's were crossed over at 150Hz by Audyssey, and I was wrong! :o(
I thought that because the Qs were vertical, the woofers were not 'getting to' the Aud. Mic. Well, I shot that theory out of the water. I rigged the Q's on my stands so the 5 1/4" woofers were pointing directly at the #1 Listening position (where mic was), ran the full 6 position Audyssey and STILL they were set by the Denon 1909 to x-over at 150Hz! ! ! crap! I HAD hoped, that just angling the woofers forward would be enough to lower the xover point quite a bit. I wanted to see what the max the x-over could be lowered by the direct firing woofer. Sheitzty... zippo. Oh well, I will leave it at 150 x-over for now. Sides crossed over at 90Hz, not 80 Hz. wahh. Beer kicking in... can no longer concentrate. must just enjoy HT now! ;o)
_________________________
Dave

"In theory, practice and theory are the same. In practice they're not."

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#256634 - 04/13/09 11:35 PM Re: Speakers just arrived! Question. [Re: davekro]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13333
Loc: Iowa
Dave, my guess is it has to do with the location of the rear Q's compared to the side Q's. Also, the room characteristics may be playing a role. If I remember, your ceiling is vaulted and bass frequencies like to collect in corners where two walls meet. Also, aren't they higher than the side surrounds? Also, the side surrounds are being reinforced by the side walls/ceiling, whereas the back surrounds are all open behind them...

If I ever make a decision and get the 3808, then I can see how it treats my surrounds. \:\) Having two rows of seating, I am unsure where to place the mic for 8 positions, but I'd figure that out to create that bubble of sound. \:\)
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#256693 - 04/14/09 12:47 PM Re: Speakers just arrived! Question. [Re: SirQuack]
davekro Offline
aficionado

Registered: 02/12/09
Posts: 562
Loc: Discovery Bay, CA
Hmmmmmn... I wonder if having the back Q's 10" (as oppoped to 2" - 4") from ceiling (also with no walls around as you point out Randy) would further negatively affect lower freq. output? Randy, what does your Denon set your rear x-overs at, after running Audyssey? Others with ceiling mount rears (or sides) with walls very far away from speaker... what does your auto set up set these speakers at?

I've been told I can manually set EQ to adjust rears to compensate. (NOT changing x-over from 150Hz to anything lower in x-over settings). My best guess is this is addressed on page 34 of the 1909 manual (EQ Customize), but I cannot understand what to do from what the, er, 'world class' manual (doesn't) say. ;\) Anyone know how to or if I SHOULD try to have backs receive frequencies down to say 80Hz? Maybe the fact that the Denon or Audyssey cannot 'hear' anything below 150Hz from the back Qs, means I should just leave the x-over at 150Hz and let the subs produce below 150Hz for signals sent to the back channels. Double Hmmmmn... seems I have answered my own question. Dude, let the sub do it... (is that right?)
_________________________
Dave

"In theory, practice and theory are the same. In practice they're not."

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#256737 - 04/14/09 03:43 PM Re: Speakers just arrived! Question. [Re: davekro]
dewd Offline
local

Registered: 05/05/08
Posts: 200
Loc: Mechanicsburg, PA, USA
If you manually EQ the speakers, Audyssey is disengaged.

I seriously would not worry too much about the 150 Hz crossover. My rears are crossed at 120 Hz and it has never been noticeable.

BTW - Audyssey found my sides (same QS8's) at 90 Hz. It is all about location....
_________________________
Dave
Audyssey Setup Guide

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#256740 - 04/14/09 04:01 PM Re: Speakers just arrived! Question. [Re: dewd]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13333
Loc: Iowa
Dave(kpro), Audyssey was not even born yet when I got my 2805. My receiver only allows for ONE crossover point for all speakers. It does have a built in setup that finds distance, dB levels, and EQ. I've never used the EQ part as it made my Axioms sound bad, with to much midrange. The distance and dB levels are fairly accurate.

I know you placed the question on the Audyssey forum at AVS, so I'm sure Chris will respond. The Q's are rated around 90hz +/- 3dB, so in my opinion the 150hz is to high for the rears, as you know Audyssey was correct on the sides. The Q's can put out some potent bass, so hopefully it is a placement issue, and you can retest.

There have been others on the AVS forum that have found that they have had to slightly tilt the mic or elevate it some to get accurate readings for certain speakers.
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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