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Re: EP subs sucking life (gain) out of the 350's....
JohnK #258629 04/29/09 02:35 AM
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John, I called Brent, who called Tom C at Axiom. Brent called me back and said it had to do with the fact that the 600 has so much output, and that I will have to crank up the gain on the 350's. To me it is strange that even if I turn off the 600 using the power switch, it still reduces the 350's by so much, like it is reducing the signal?


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Re: EP subs sucking life (gain) out of the 350's....
SirQuack #258634 04/29/09 03:10 AM
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Yeah, Randy; that reply from Axiom doesn't appear to be responsive to the problem. The difference in level settings required doesn't explain the drop in level when the 600 is connected.


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Re: EP subs sucking life (gain) out of the 350's....
JohnK #258637 04/29/09 03:30 AM
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I'm trying to understand it as well John, maybe Alan will jump in. The way I understood it is that the 600 requires more of the signal produced by the receiver, which would leave less for the other subs. I suppose I should have asked more questions.


M80s VP180 4xM22ow 4xM3ic EP600 2xEP350
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Re: EP subs sucking life (gain) out of the 350's....
SirQuack #258645 04/29/09 04:23 AM
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Well, it shouldn't work like that with properly designed amplifiers(and the higher gain amplifier is the one that requires less voltage input, anyway). Typical amplifiers have an input impedance of 10K ohms or more. Preouts typically have an output impedance of a few hundred ohms. A common rule of thumb is that the input impedance of the amplifier should be at least ten times the output impedance of the preamplifier. When Mojo and I discussed a similar problem a little over a year ago both on the board and in PMs the results he was getting indicated an extraordinarily low input impedance in the Axiom switching amplifiers was causing a drop in voltage when the EP600 was connected. The question was never resolved.


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Re: EP subs sucking life (gain) out of the 350's....
JohnK #258648 04/29/09 05:04 AM
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I was having trouble with the volume knob having to be maxed out on my second EP800 to barely keep pace with the first one--it was actually just shy of the same SPL--but with the latest version of the amplifier, the volume knobs on both are very close to the same position to achieve equal levels. I assumed Axiom knowingly corrected this and it's not just a fluke.

Re: EP subs sucking life (gain) out of the 350's....
CV #258658 04/29/09 08:25 AM
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I had the same issues Randy whenever I connected my old 350 with the 600, way low on the 600 with the 350 having to be turned way up ... I surely hope the same issue won't rear it's ugly head whenever a like sub is added to the 600.


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Re: EP subs sucking life (gain) out of the 350's....
RickF #258659 04/29/09 09:18 AM
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There was most deinitely a problem with daisy chaining the EP600 when Mojo and I were doing the sub comparisons. It was thought that the latest batch of amps with the higher filter(150hz) on it and no by-pass mode solved the issue, IIRC. I seem to remember a couple of posts by a few owners with the newer amp design and they were able to daisy chain the 600 without the drop out of the other subs.


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Re: EP subs sucking life (gain) out of the 350's....
jakewash #258668 04/29/09 11:56 AM
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Just curious. Have you experimented with splitting the signal at the receiver so it's not being daisy chained? Excuse me if it's been covered, I reread the thread but only very quickly.


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Re: EP subs sucking life (gain) out of the 350's....
Murph #258674 04/29/09 01:22 PM
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Same thing murph, I had a gold splitter adapter at the receiver. One of my 350's was on its own leg. I had it calibrated to 75dB's, but as soon as I plugged in the other line which included the 600, it dropped about 6-7 dB's.

Maybe Alan will see this thread and consult with Tom C. to give us a better understanding than Brent telling me the 600 has more output....


M80s VP180 4xM22ow 4xM3ic EP600 2xEP350
AnthemAVM60 Outlaw7700 EmoA500 Epson5040UB FluanceRT85


Re: EP subs sucking life (gain) out of the 350's....
SirQuack #258689 04/29/09 02:25 PM
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Well, this also solidifies that it is an electrical condition, not an output problem.

here is an oversimplified, probably silly thought. Could you use the equivalent of a fader device (instead of a splitter) to equalize the output to each sub?

Edited for second thought:
"Equalize" need not even be the goal here. You could use said device to tweak to whatever levels allows you to balance levels more easily without having to max out or minimize gain levels on each subs amp.

Last edited by Murph; 04/29/09 02:27 PM. Reason: 2nd thought.

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