Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion The Water Cooler Despicable US Healthcare Commercial - Not Right!

I just saw the most despicable commercial on CNN. It shows a Canadian woman (although we don’t know for sure she is Canadian, and I have my doubts) talking about how she had brain cancer and it would have taken her six months to see a specialist under the Canadian health care system, but since she only had six months to live, she went to the US and got treatment right away. Had she stayed in Canada she would be dead now.

I know our system here in Canada is not perfect. No system is. But I seriously don’t think that she would have died under our health care system as she describes in the commercial.

She also doesn’t explain the massive amounts of money she would have had to shell out for treatment in the US. Enough to bankrupt most middle to upper class citizens of both countries.

About 1/5th of Americans right now (roughly 50 million (almost twice the population of Canada)) don’t have health care right now. How does the current American system help those people with brain cancer or any other life threatening diseases?

Do CNN and the producers of this commercial realize that we get CNN in Canada?

My US friends; don’t believe this commercial. There are always exceptions to any rule and yes, rarely some people may slip through the cracks. But I don’t know any Canadian that would trade our system for the one in the currently in the US.

Healthcare is one reason I could never seriously consider moving to the US. A higher tax rate is a small price to pay for uniform access to a reasonably cost effective healthcare system.

CNN....pphhhhht!! remember SARS? if you watched CNN's coverage of it you would have thought the entire population of Toronto was wearing masks and scared to cross the street. I never saw anyone in Southern Ontario wearing a mask but somehow CNN made a story from the couple that they found. Everyone took precautions, for sure, but CNN was let's say, a "trifle" sensationalistic.

I'm not usually much for political threads, but...

I share your disgust. Who sponsored the commercial?

There's a difference between "not having health CARE" and not having "health INSURANCE". Lies, damn lies and statistics.

I don't know that a majority of Americans are behind our current President's fixation on blowing up our current system.

Thanks for bringing this up.

There was an excellent article in a recent Economist on this issue. To me, its sad to think that healthcare is such a political issue.

Any idea where the lady resided? I recall a story similar to this a couple years ago, and I believe it was a woman out west.

CNN et al. are a joke, stick to grassroots organizations i.e. Democracy Now!

Its just CNN's propaganda. I take anything that comes from the CNN media oultet with a grain of salt anyways especially anything that deals with the "political" realm. Its disinformation in its finest.

This woman is a fraud. She has already been debunked - what she is calling a brain tumor was actually a cyst (very different than a tumor). This particular type of cyst generally takes years to develop any noticeable symptoms, and she caught it very early. It would be like me saying my ingrown toe-nail is a broken toe.

Anyhow, here is a link detailing everything. Granted the Kos is not always the best source, but they have their facts straight it would appear.

More likely it's the advertisers who paid money to CNN's propaganda. I doubt the CNN newsroom had a great deal to do with an ad.

I think Wolf Blitzer is behind it!

CNN and Fox News are what used to be called propoganda media outlets in less developed countries. Their bias is very apparent when you compare it with more objective reporting services in other western countries.

The Canadian system is far from perfect but it does work. Just this week an old friend of mine was diagnosed with advanced brain cancer and he was operated on within 48 hours. This long delay and forced trip to a US hospital is a myth IMO. Needless to say he didn't have to morgage his home or empty his wallet.

On the other hand, it disturbs me when I vacation in Florida to see seniors who should be enjoying their retirement years taking low level jobs in order to pay for a spouse's medical or drug bills. I've often thought that the measure of a society is how it treats its underprivileged, like children and seniors.

Thanks Golden, I looked for the commercial on you tube but couldn't find it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWxcv0Dummk

I don't think CNN had anyting to do with the production of it. They were just the network that ran it. I suppose it could have just a easily been on any of the other networks.

This woman is wacked. When she says she went to the the US and got "world class medical care" it makes it sound like we are still in the stone age here in Canada. This is like a huge slap in the face of all the people that work at University hospital in London, or McMaster in Hamilton, or Sunnybrook in Toronto, or any of the other world recognized healt care facilities in Canada.

What people will do for money, I bet she'd sell her own grandmother if she could get a buck of two.

pn

CNN is ultimately responsible for the commercial. As a network they decide what they choose to show. Conveniently it fits their political agenda. Thats my point.

Folk's, CNN is not behind the commercial. They simply sell air time to those who can afford it. In the case of the commercial in question, the sponsor is listed as Patients United Now.

" Patients United Now (or PUN for short!), is a front group for Americans for Prosperity, a group behind the lobbyist-funded tea parties last month. Even though on PUN’s website they claim that they are “people just like you,” they are actually just corporate-funded lobbyists: Source"

" After orchestrating and funding the so-called Tea Parties movement, Americans for Prosperity — a nationwide front group founded and funded by the right-wing polluter Koch Industries — is launching an ad campaign characterizing President Obama’s effort to reform the health care system as a government take-over that will ration care and care and deny treatments.

Americans for Prosperity is notorious for its fake grassroots efforts, funneling millions of dollars into conservative campaigns designed to undermine Democratic initiatives.

Now, operating under the name Patients United Now, Americans for Prosperity — which is mostly funded by large multinational corporations — is masquerading as an organic grassroots movement outraged over the Presidents health care proposals:
" Source

So, to all our Canadian friends, please remember that this ad is about MONEY! It does not represent the views of CNN, nor does it represent the views of a consensus of the American people. Many of us find this practice as deplorable as you do. More importantly, most of us just don't buy it.

Rebuttal

We all have every right to be angry about this practice and this ad. But, let's direct our anger at the real culprits -
PATIENTS UNITED NOW, AMERICANS FOR PROSPERITY, KOCH INDUSTRIES, and CORPORATE-FUNDED LOBBYISTS MASQUERADING AS "JUST PLAIN FOLKS" .

Please don't let them off the hook because you don't like CNN.

Totally agree.

Adbusters has a very hard time getting a 30 sec. TV spot on CNN and other networks, because they don't conform with their agenda etc.

A balanced commentary by Canadians regarding the misleading US ads.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88KmmR4d5Ig&feature=related

Sorry Jack, that's not true. Anyone can come up with their own commercial and money to promote it, but it is completely up to the discretion of the station to play it.

Adbusters was also turned down on my local news station, and they're constantly calling for fairness, and freedom of speech in media.

I agree Jakeman

I always wondered about the ethics of a society that not only accepts, but promotes the massive profiting off the sick. I don’t mean the doctors and nurses and other people on the front line of our medical systems. These people are worth every penny and more. I am talking about the managers and CEO’s that are taking home many millions of dollars by denying a basic human right to people because they have pre existing condition, or can’t afford the coverage they need. You might expect this from a 3rd world country in Africa. Not the so called “best country in the world” go old USA.

I still remember in the early 90’s when George Bush Sr. made his speech that “if any American wanted a government run health care system they should ask a Canadian”. I always wondered why more Americans didn’t ask Canadians.

I wish it were that black and white, but it's not. But, for the sake of argument, let's assume you are correct and that CNN ran it because it "fit's their agenda." I'm in no way defending CNN. Feel free to bash them if you wish. But, please don't allow the focus of your anger to be on CNN rather than on those who create this BS and pay for it. It is they who deserve our censure and our disgust.

PATIENTS UNITED NOW, AMERICANS FOR PROSPERITY, KOCH INDUSTRIES, and CORPORATE-FUNDED LOBBYISTS MASQUERADING AS "JUST PLAIN FOLKS" .

Don't let them off the hook while you shoot the messenger (even in it deserves to be shot).

Also, I have been through quite a bit with the health care system, and have had an overall good experience.

A perfect, recent example: I went to see a wound specialist in Toronto on the 8th, and she ordered some tests for me. I ended up getting an appointment for an x-ray, CAT scan, and a bone scan (to rule out osteomyelitis) the next week (last Friday). After those tests, the x-ray tech wanted me to come back again on Monday (yesterday) to have a gallium scan (more detail bone scan), and a ultrasound on my kidneys and bladder.

Not a bad system in my books. Although I wasn't too enthusiastic about having nuclear medicine in me for four days.

Without doing too much googling, these TV spots were censored by big broadcasters.

Both the broadcaster and the lobby groups are culpable. Mainstream media is driven by corporate sponsorship, that's why there's so much synergy in media now.

Here are some stories that weren't shown, because of this.

Hey Cam

I hope your test come back OK.

Interesting note here. Canadians voted Tommy Dougles as the greatest Canadian ever. No, not a hockey player, not involved with beer creation, not a moose or beaver hunter, not an RCMP officer or even a Prime Minister. Just the guy that gave us our current healtcare system.

http://www.cbc.ca/greatest/top_ten/nominee/douglas-tommy.html

I couldn't agree more. However, I bet John Labbatt was a close second, LOL!

pn

Thanks man, I've already got disappointing news about my sores, and one of my kidneys (stones), so let's hope that I don't have osteomyelitis. Taking a toll, but I should find out by tomorrow.

I agree completely.

I think that you will find that most Canadians are happy with the system we have here. Thats not to say that its perfect, but its pretty damn good.

The Seminal is an excellent source, always enjoy seeing it quoted!

Ditto! In fact I feel very fortunate to live under such a system.

I dunno, John. Do you really consider it a "balanced" approach to show Canadians a video, produced in another country, critical of the Canadian health care system and THEN ask them what they think of the Canadian health care system? Wouldn't it be a tad more "balanced" to simply ask them what they think of the Canadian health care system BEFORE showing them a video which could very possibly bias their answers?

Possibly not Jack, but you would get largely the same answer either way.

Jack. Maybe they haven't figured out how to do a blind test on this subject.

Seriously, that crossection really is indicative of what most people here think about the two systems. There always going to be people who have a "horror" story to tell regardless of what health care they have. I've personally never encountered anyone who had to leave the country to get treated but it has been known to happen. I don't like our system because its very expensive to maintain and inefficient from a taxation point of view but like most folks here, I can justify it because of ease of access (just show a health card at the hospital or clinic) and the greater average life spans that Canadians enjoy compared to Americans.

Possibly, possibly not. Either way, my questions were in regard to John's characterizing this specific example as "balanced." I feel reasonable in saying it was not.

As already stated, the Canadian system isn't perfect, but it works. I'm sure a few people have fallen through the cracks.

Cam, I wish you the best results on your tests.

A good 10 yrs ago, my parents moved from Ontario to the Southern States, mainly for the warmer winter weather and to get away from higher Canadian taxes(to quote my father). After a few years down South and then in Washington State, they moved up to BC because health insurance was so expensive down there...I can't remember the exact figure, but I believe it was in the neighbourhood of $1500+ US per month.

This tells us what all of us already know, firstly, yes, Canadians DO pay more taxes than Americans do, so health care isn't really "free". However, as you'll hear from most Canucks, we are happy to pay a reasonable tax into a system that has been setup for all of us, regardless of their financial situation.

I'm wondering if, in the US, it's all about $$, catering to the big insurance corporations or possibly a simple fear of becoming more "socialist"...I don't know.

Amen to what Ajax said. It's just a commercial.

But the fear of "socialism" is very real for an entire generation of people.

In the US, for just about everyone born between 1950 and 1991, you grew up being taught to hate Russia, hate "communism", to fear "socialism", and to embrace capitalism as "the American Way". For better or for worse, a lot of people still feel that way. And those commercials play to that. I live in a very conservative area, and you'd be surprised how many people are truly afraid of anything "socialist". And they're not happy with you when you point out that the Police, Fire Department, Public Schools, roads, public libraries, & their beloved Social Security check are all, to some degree, "socialist" things.

I've met (or overheard conversations) of many coworkers, acquaintances, even random strangers in at a restaurant or waiting in line somewhere that'll be telling some story about health insurance, healthcare, and cost. It usually goes

1) they have/had some health problem
2) it cost $$$$$$
3) They had no insurance|insurance paid half|insurance dropped them after paying for the first treatment
4) They|their cousin|their relative now owes $$$$, which is more than their house ($$) is worth.
5) how they had to sell their home|liquidate their 401k|declare bankruptcy to pay for it.

Then the kicker...

6) But damn those communists in the White House and Congress for wanting to socialize health insurance. Because healthcare in those socialist countries - Canada, the UK, France - is AWFUL. And no one wants that.

For our Canadian friends, the comparison between the US vs Canadian healthcare/insurance system is pretty simple....

1) Do you know anyone that died because some Canadian Government regulation prevented them from getting care? Anti US-healthcare reform advocates (i.e., the Health Insurance Industry - that commercial) would have us Americans believe that it's a common thing. I highly doubt it is.

2) Do you know anyone that lost everything (even their lives) because of healthcare costs? I know several.

Peter, you bring up an interesting point. I always thought of unions as being a socialist organization.

In a union every one is equal and gets paid the same amount regardless of their job. That is socialism, and even boarding on communism. If you talk to any UAW or Teamster worker, they will swear by capitalism, but also swear by his/her union. That doesn't make sence. Something about having cake and eating it too.

Peter I have lived in Canada all my life, 40 years, and never have heard of anyone ever loosing everything they own because of healthcare costs. Never! It wouldn't happen here.

I could loose my marrige, my house, my job, my car, my HT, but I would always have healthcare.

To me, that is a basic human right!

pn

They absolutely are. For the workers, by the workers. Could be a union slogan, could be that of a socialist republic. Unions have a lot more in common with the doctrine of Karl Marx than they do to Adam Smith.

I agree, whole-heartedly.

Regarding 1) Its this kind of deliberate misinformation and scaremongering that has me concerned about how people are being manipulated south of the border. I'm glad you see it for what it is.

2) Me too.

As a Canadian I always get insurance before crossing the border even if I am going over there for only a few hours. I am sure there are quite a few that don't, some probably do not even think about it. My mom is American and the majority of my relatives live all around the United States. If I would get in a car accident or have any type of serious health problems travelling that could create some very devastating finanical problems. Possibly ruin my life.

Question: how hard is it to emigrate, on an official basis, from the US to Canada? Haha, I have no intention, but I am just curious how that works. Also, if a non-Canadian citizen is injured/sick while in Canada, I assume they are covered for the initial hospital stay, is that correct?

If you know the secret handshake, you don't have to pay.

Here in Toronto there are many ex-pat Americans who have emigrated. Many of the older ones came here during the Vietnam War and never returned. There used to be dual citizenship status though I'm not sure that's granted anymore.

If you have a health card you don't pay otherwise you're billed. Only Canadians or "landed immigrants" (something like a resident alien) can have health cards. Basically you have to be a tax paying Canadian resident or family member of one.

I am not sure actually how difficult it is. My Dad (Canadian) married my Mom (American). Mom became dual citizenship and they lived in Canada and that is where I was born. I could have applied for dual but never did. I have spent a lot of time in both countries and like them both but my heart stays in Canada .

Here's a solution:

Put all of our money into a time travel machine, travel far enough into the future where they invent those Star Trek scan-your-body things, then bring one back, mass produce it, and everyone is their own MD.

Problem solved.

Yes, but they don’t care because Canadians are not a large voting block in U.S. elections.



I agree with you Fred. For me the real disgust is not the political propaganda this commercial represents but that factions are using healthcare as and “emotional appeal” type of “red herring” argument to either grab more political/economic power or protect the political/economic power they already have. It’s about: Lie, Cheat & Steal

At the end of the election cycle all that matters is who bought the most votes.