Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Just set up my new epic80-500 system in 7.1

Thanks for all the compliments and support guys.

I spent the morning trying to equalize my system. I am afraid that my initial thought might be correct.

After running audessy a number of times it always came back with the same result for the sub. it kept saying plus 12 through 5 db. I started the dial at 9 o'clock and went through multiple tries and sub locations. I have it now turned all the way up with the trim setting at 0 db. When running audessy at this setting it still shows plus 5 db as the trim setting I should use.

I did craw around the room listening for a good spot for the sub with the sub in place of the couch, the corner where it is now is a decent spot.

So anyone have any options for maybe picking the performance up a bit? Room treatments are out by the way, W.A.F. comes into effect.

As for performance of the sub in every other respect I am more than pleased. I have heard louder subs and even a number of 300-500 dollar subs which have more output. But as was said earlier the quality of sound was not there. They rattled and vibrated, really colouring the sound. There was high output but no detail. After watching 3 movies today in DTS and listening to a number of C.D.'s the 500 is very good. While i do want slam and presence I do not want muddy crappy sound that vibrates the floor for the sake of rattling dishes. I do feel I could use more output. As some of you here are afflicted with the same addiction to base as I am you can never have to much. Ideally I would like to balance the system and then bring the volume up a bit more on the sub to bring the bass up a little more.

Osborne

Osborne:

It seems like that sub should be putting out a lot more.

Excuse the biggy picture but do you have the sub connected to the SW out on your 3808 like this:


I have a SVS sub with less power in a room that has about approximately the same volume as yours. With the sub volume at 12 o'clock my Denon sets it to -2 db. Something seems wrong with your setup maybe. Just an idea...

This is exactly the situation I refered to. I know went through your head when you first fired up the EP500... "That's it"??? As good as it sounded, it seemed to be lacking a little something, and that something was... VOLUME!!! You said it in the beginning of your post, you've heard louder subs costing $300 - $500 dollars. As I said in my post, many people are conditioned by these high output/highly distorted subwoofers that cost very little. They are the subs most of us start out with since they're all we can afford when we're first starting out.

So when we feast our eyes on something like the EP500 with its remarkable size, the substantial weight, the magnificent finish and of course the sizable price tag (expecially for a mail-order company), its only natural to assume that it's going to knock us clean out of our socks. I think the subtle approach Axioms line of subwoofers takes really shocks people at first. I've only been around for 3 quarters of a year and I've seen many a post that starts, "I think something is wrong with my subwoofer"...

What's wrong is that our expectations were preset at unrealistic levels by subwoofers that misrepresented the actual bass output of a musical recording or a movie's LFE sequence. And its hard to believe at first. Out of all the people I've seen on here that wondered, "where's the bass"??? I don't recall a single one of them making a connection they had missed somewhere and then come back on here to say, "ok there it is, its breaking the window panes now"!!!

Instead its my opinion that those who stay with Axiom subs get used to the way real bass sounds and decide they like it. And those who aren't happy with it, trade in their Axioms for another brand. And I'm not implying that Axiom subs are weak by any means. My whole point is that entry level subs use entirely too much gain, but we get used to that level of performance and then go into our Axiom purchases expecting that much volume, plus refined clarity and accurate response. But that isn't what Axiom subs are.

It would be an interesting test if Axiom had a Denon receiver to play with. What I would suggest to them is to install into their showroom at the plant and calibrate it using a EP500 with the newly designed amplifier which has the gain set differetnly then the older amps to test if it needs a boost in the receiver settings for proper calibration. It seems people are having a harder time calibrating the 500's with the newer amps.

People are often hesitant when calibrating a sub to

A) increase the gain on the sub past half
B) increase the gain on the receiver

when "volume" is lacking

Steven - I agree that your initial thought are probably right. Sounds like your room is a huge volume to fill and if you are use to something that just moves lots of air w/o regard to detail then the EP500 might not feel right.

A couple other things you could try:

Place the sub right in front of your listening position aimed at you. Having it near field may increase the slam w/o the muddiness.

From you’re initial post I’m supposing a second sub is out of the question? Assuming so have you ever tried a Buttkicker or other tactile transducer. It wont quite slam your chest but it will rock your seating giving you very low bass w/o the high SPLs that make everything in the room shake. I used one in my apartment to make up for not being able to turn up my subwoofer (yet to finish my seating so I can set it up in my house but I will use it). It lets me keep the SPL from the sub down enough to keep the bass tight and punchy while still feeling the earthshaking rumble in my bones when appropriate.

Maybe there is a difference with the new subs versus the old subs then, because it seems a lot of the new owners (myself included) don't seem to feel that these subs get nearly as LOUD as some of our older, less expensive subs. Much, MUCH more defined, tight, accurate & responsive, but no where near as loud!!! If you with the older model Axiom subs don't feel this way, then perhaps there is a bigger problem then we know about.

I say problem because it would be hard for me to understand why an audio company would purposely lower the volume on their subwoofer line??? That would be like Ferrari upgrading the F40 with 250 LESS horsepower!!!

The combined volume of my listening area and adjacent kitchen is about 4000 cubic feet. My EP500 has no problem filling this area with way more bass than I need and I’ve yet to push it to see what it can really do here. However, I’m not sure we share the same idea of what is enough bass.

Actually, it would be like re-designing the gas pedal.

The question is whether or not the new sub still has the capability of outputting the same maximum level.

Equipment designers have been having a "loudness war" with the volume controls for years..designing the control to have full output with a quarter turn so that boombox seems really, really powerful. Imagine if someone designed a really nice receiver, but it took a full 360 degree turn of the volume knob to reach full output. At full output, it can put out as much as the competition. But people would consider it weak in that it wasn't "cranking" with only a third of a turn of the knob.

So, if you think of a volume control as simply a gain control, it would be best designed if it had to be turned up to maximum to reach full output with a weakish signal....and a little less than a full turn if it had a strong input signal. Then you would have the finest amount of control over that gain, all the way to "full output".

So, again, the question is not how much the volume control gets turned, but whether or not the new subs full output is equal to the old subs' full output.

I do have some updates but first..

Jollo

That is where my cable is placed for the sub. Honestly I don't think anything is wrong with the sub or my setup. There certainly a fair amount of output. More you can feel the pressure in you ears during movie scenes rather than the floor is shaking! I am very please with the sound I just would like a little more of it, and it is a huge space to fill.

So I guess kinda what I was after was after was a little more pressure and presence rather than rattle.

First update

After really pulling out all the stops and sucking up like you would not believe I got to move some furniture and place the sub in the corner with the 1\4 wall. After recalibrating late into last night I gained 3 db with this location compared to the back corner which was open to the rest of the room. The sub is still set at absolutely full volume and audessy wants to add 1.5 db to balance the system.

An even better update!!!!

Ohhhh I'm in deep now. Since she was P.O.'d with the sub anyway I told the wife of my initial problem with the sub. I mentioned that there were other subs but they were "bigger", or more or less taller..... Since I told here she can't put anything on top of the sub, OMG she wanted to hide it by putting plants on top, she said taller makes no difference now!!!!


Maybe an 800 is in the cards.......


I will keep listening for the next week or so and see what my ears tell me to do.

That's true, Mark. I had the gain at half when I first set up my Paradigm sub and it was far too much, I'm at approx 1/3 and I believe I could lower it some more in fact. Made me wonder who would have it near or at full gain?