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Re: receivers? Sherwood, Denon, Yamaha?
BlueJays1 #273901 10/02/09 04:20 PM
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 Originally Posted By: Dr.House
Auddessy and the auto setup/Denon did strange things with my crossover making them way to high, setting speakers to large and also maxing out my pre-out levels for my subwoofer to +12, another time it was set way to low, and the auto-on wasnt working as should. This would cause erratic, sub optimal performance. Gosh knows what it did with the equilization. I tried running it mulitple times and still was getting funny results but better. My speaker levels and distances for the most part where fine but overall I was not impressed. I did a full reset on my Denon and set up everything manually after that. Just my experience, I realize other people like it and that is fine by me.


Not strange at all. First, it is the AVR, not Audssey that set your speakers to large. Until recently, the AVR would set them large if Audyssey measured under 80Hz. Very simple (and recommended) to change them to small. The +12 means your volume on your sub was too low. Newer AVR models have an extra step the warns you about this before you finish the whole process.

Again, I'm not saying use it. I am saying that most folks who say it doesn't work usually have it setup wrong (or their room is so poorly setup that nothing can help it).

Re: receivers? Sherwood, Denon, Yamaha?
MarkSJohnson #273902 10/02/09 04:22 PM
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I will say one thing, there is a huge difference, in favor of Audyssey, in the overall sound, sub performance, etc. when I go back and forth between Audyssey on/off. You can play a song or movie and cycle through on/off with the touch of the remote button. The performance with my Axiom speakers, and frequency response is much better for all seats with Audyssey enabled.

I will also say the newest Dynamic Volume and Dynamic EQ offerings are awesome as well. It appears those that doubt the technology have never used it. Or, they did not follow the proper setup instructions, so if they get poor results they blame Audyssey, not themselves.

Before I ran Audyssey, I always do my manually tweeking that Alan mentions. Audyssey improves things that much more to my ears, that is what is important.


M80s VP180 4xM22ow 4xM3ic EP600 2xEP350
AnthemAVM60 Outlaw7700 EmoA500 Epson5040UB FluanceRT85


Re: receivers? Sherwood, Denon, Yamaha?
dewd #273903 10/02/09 04:31 PM
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 Originally Posted By: dewd
 Originally Posted By: Dr.House
Auddessy and the auto setup/Denon did strange things with my crossover making them way to high, setting speakers to large and also maxing out my pre-out levels for my subwoofer to +12, another time it was set way to low, and the auto-on wasnt working as should. This would cause erratic, sub optimal performance. Gosh knows what it did with the equilization. I tried running it mulitple times and still was getting funny results but better. My speaker levels and distances for the most part where fine but overall I was not impressed. I did a full reset on my Denon and set up everything manually after that. Just my experience, I realize other people like it and that is fine by me.


Not strange at all. First, it is the AVR, not Audssey that set your speakers to large. Until recently, the AVR would set them large if Audyssey measured under 80Hz. Very simple (and recommended) to change them to small. The +12 means your volume on your sub was too low. Newer AVR models have an extra step the warns you about this before you finish the whole process.

Again, I'm not saying use it. I am saying that most folks who say it doesn't work usually have it setup wrong (or their room is so poorly setup that nothing can help it).


I tried it multiple times with the subwoofer volume at half to 3/4. It was not set too low, adjustments would make the pre-out level too low or too high, it couldn't get it right. I found it sounded better with Auddessy off anyways so it really didn't matter. Not a big deal but it was worth trying it out.


I’m armed and I’m drinking. You don’t want to listen to advice from me, amigo.

-Max Payne
Re: receivers? Sherwood, Denon, Yamaha?
SirQuack #273912 10/02/09 05:37 PM
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 Originally Posted By: sirquack
It appears those that doubt the technology have never used it. Or, they did not follow the proper setup instructions, so if they get poor results they blame Audyssey, not themselves.

And you don't think that with different equipment setups, in different rooms, with different listeners, there won't be variables in whether or not people believe that Audyssey worked well or not?

Because it works for YOUR ears, in YOUR room, with YOUR equipment doesn't mean others will have the same results. No one gains knowledge if you just spout your opinions as facts that apply universally.

Personally, I'm not "for" OR "against" Audyssey... though I'll say that I really love the dynamic volume and dynamic EQ options...


::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::
Re: receivers? Sherwood, Denon, Yamaha?
MarkSJohnson #273914 10/02/09 05:42 PM
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In about 4 months I will get to try Audyssey out in my new house with a much different lay out. It should be interesting to see if I hear the same changes as I did with my smaller more compact area.


Jason
M80 v2
VP160 v3
QS8 v2
PB13 Ultra
Denon 3808
Samsung 85" Q70
Re: receivers? Sherwood, Denon, Yamaha?
jakewash #273924 10/02/09 07:34 PM
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 Originally Posted By: dewd

Until I get an actual answer as to "why not use it"?


Why not to use it is if you don’t like how it makes your system sound. Conversely, why to use it is if you like the way it makes your system sound. ;\)

However, here’s the rub for someone like me who doesn’t like it for now:

 Originally Posted By: dewd

I know it seems like I'm a fanboy. I'm not really. I just know it works if setup correctly and do not like it when something is dismissed without reason. I react similarly when someone says that Axiom speakers are too bright.


I have set Audyssey up correctly more times than I can count in 3 different rooms and got very similar results (though not exactly the same results) that I didn’t like. In anticipation of someone who always asks, the answer is “yes,” I have followed the checklist posted at AVS something I’m pretty good at since I run maintenance and operational checklists for a living.

Just as you don’t like it when “something” is dismissed without reason I don’t like it when “someone” (especially me) is dismissed without reason (“…works if setup correctly“). While I accept there are likely purists out there who dismiss Audyssey out of hand and others who don’t use it optimally there are actually very many of us who do know how to use it and still don’t feel it works in our situations.

I can’t speak to others intentions in entering these debates but mine is simply to point out to any new people out there using Audyssey that it’s ok not to like how it makes your system sound. And that not liking it doesn’t require that you are incompetent at setting up and calibrating your system.

I also reserve the right to change my mind about Audyssey since this is not a religious crusade for me. It’s possible the implementation of Audyssey in my receiver is faulty, less likely that all 3 rooms are unmanageable (in the same way) and highly unlikely that it‘s user error.

Note, I’m also one of those “nonconformists” who considers Dolby Pro-Logic 2 and 2x a mixed bag. Again not because I’m being a purist but because of how it sounds to me. In the end how our systems sound to us and those we share them with is all that really should matter.

Cheers,
Dean


3M80 2M22 6QS8 2M2 1EP500 Sony BDP-S590 Panny-7000 Onkyo-3007 Carada-134 Xbox Buttkicker AS-EQ1
Re: receivers? Sherwood, Denon, Yamaha?
grunt #273932 10/02/09 08:50 PM
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Dean,

Liking the results and setting it up correctly are two different things. If you don't like the results, don't use it just like if you don't like the sound of Axiom speakers, don't buy them. But we were not talking about likes and dislikes. I was replying to the blanket statement "Don't use it".

 Originally Posted By: grunt

In the end how our systems sound to us and those we share them with is all that really should matter.



Exactly!!!

Last edited by dewd; 10/02/09 08:50 PM.
Re: receivers? Sherwood, Denon, Yamaha?
jakewash #273938 10/02/09 09:26 PM
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Lol, hey I'm not for OR against Audyssey either. In fact I've only heard it the one time over at SRoodes place and it was a definite 'degrade' in the audio performance with it on. You'll have to ask him but I would have to assume Steve did all the measurements and all that stuff one would consider in setting it up correctly. But here's the thing, Audyssey is a room 'correction' system right? So what if you've put so much work into your room that it doesn't need correcting? Then what does it do?

Nevermind, silly question. Undeniably I will assume that it is common knowledge that ALL rooms have some sort of flaw in it that needs correcting right? But you know it's occured to me, with even the highest of hi-end audio companies being lucky to have 75% of all customers liking their product, how would it be possible for Audyssey to expect a better approval rating than that?

This might be the highest subjectively rated hobby out there, there basically is no 'right or wrong', there's only what a particular person likes & what he doesn't like. So if 60% of the audio world liked what Audyssey did for them, they would be doing a superb job. Because the fact is what you consider an improvement I may deem as unlistenable, and vice-versa.

That's why everyone can give all the reasons they want reguarding their views on Audyssey... the people who are on whichever side of the they are on right now will remain on that side indefinately. Unless someone like Grunt who is currently on the 'don't care for' side of the line but can't stop himself from tinkering finally finds a setting he likes well enough to leave Audyssey on! ;\)


My Stuff :

M80's
QS8's
VP150
EP800
Denon 4802
Emotiva XPA-3
Samsung BD-P3600
Sharp 65 Inch Aquos LCD
Re: receivers? Sherwood, Denon, Yamaha?
Micah #273950 10/02/09 11:28 PM
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 Originally Posted By: Micah

Unless someone like Grunt who is currently on the 'don't care for' side of the line but can't stop himself from tinkering finally finds a setting he likes well enough to leave Audyssey on!

First I will never stop tinkering. Hell I’m planning to eventually put up sliding rails to mount my QS8s from with Full Metal Brackets so I can continue to tinker even after they are wall mounted.

That said I gave up on tinkering with this iteration of Audyssey. I really wish it did work for me, because I do like part of it’s effect especially here in my largest room so far. It noticeably enhances the 3D nature of the surround sound-field so that discrete sounds like the glass and concrete exploding around you at the beginning of “Appleseed” don’t just come from various directions but you also distinctly hear them hitting right next to you and all the way out past the walls.

OTOH what it does to the front soundstage is awful. The EQ curve it applies makes male voices sound very hollow and tinny. The best example is “Master and Commander” where Russell Crowe’s voice sounds like he’s talking through two tin cans connected by a string. No exaggeration it’s really that bad.

Nor am I a purist. I do like Dolby Pro-Logic 2 and 2x for some things but not universally. I also like some of the virtual room modes like “Jazz Club” for some things but again as always for me it’s source dependent.

I’m sure my next receiver will have some room correction capability, more than likely Audyssey since it seems more and more that SN’s and Outlaw’s implementation of Trinnov is a not starter.

So I may drink the cool-aid some day…spiked with tequila of course.

Cheers,
Dean


3M80 2M22 6QS8 2M2 1EP500 Sony BDP-S590 Panny-7000 Onkyo-3007 Carada-134 Xbox Buttkicker AS-EQ1
Re: receivers? Sherwood, Denon, Yamaha?
SirQuack #273993 10/03/09 01:50 PM
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 Originally Posted By: sirquack
It appears those that doubt the technology have never used it. Or, they did not follow the proper setup instructions, so if they get poor results they blame Audyssey, not themselves.

Talk about 'blanket' generalizing statements.
\:\/

Maybe we should just start a poll: who is a fanboy and who are never-have-used-Audyssey-so-really-don't-know-it-works great haters?



"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."
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