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A couple of front projection questions....
#276019 10/23/09 06:57 PM
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OK you front projection gooroos I have a couple of questions if you don't mind...

Do most or all screens come in uniform sizes? Using the Projector Central throw distance calculator it seems like the screen size can vary considerably by the throw distance ... does one typically choose a screen size based on the viewing room and available space for a screen, a standard size or the aspect ratio of the projector?

Are any of you familiar with either remote/electric or manual pull down screens and requirements for mounting?

In my limited research it looks like maybe the run of the mill aspect ratio is 16:9 and it also looks as though the Panasonic PT-AE3000 would be a very good projector to have?

Forgive my ignorance but I know absolutely diddly squat about front projectors so therefore I am open to all tips, suggestions and comments. \:\)


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Re: A couple of front projection questions....
RickF #276023 10/23/09 07:16 PM
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Sounds like someone's getting upgradeitis \:D


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Re: A couple of front projection questions....
Adrian #276026 10/23/09 07:34 PM
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Finance department OK'ed my requisition for a front projection system as well as an updated AVR ... took a lot of time, hard physical work and bribes to get it done though. \:\)




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Re: A couple of front projection questions....
RickF #276028 10/23/09 07:45 PM
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Sounds like you know your way around unmovable obstacles! ;\)


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Re: A couple of front projection questions....
Micah #276031 10/23/09 08:11 PM
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Screen Mfg companies usually offer 16:9, 2.35:1 (Cinemascope), and 2:1 screen sizes. I prefer a 2.35 screen as most of the good movies are in this format, and I hate black bars on the top and bottom of a 16:9 screen. The new Panny has a built in feature that adjusts for a 16:9 and 2.35 screen, so in my opinion, you would be better off with 2.35, then you have the best of both worlds.

The displayed image size has to do with throw distance, and where you have the zoom set. Most projectors have a 2:1 Zoom, so at any given throw distance you can basically double the image size from the lowest zoom to the highest. You don't want a HUGE screen if your going to sit close, you will be darting your eyes left/right and getting headaches.

At 13 ft (front row) and 16ft (back row) my image is 130" diag for 2.35 movies and around 96" diag for 16:9 television.


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Re: A couple of front projection questions....
SirQuack #276033 10/23/09 08:42 PM
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Randy it looks like I'll have about 100-110 inches of width for a pull down screen between the 80s, I'm thinking a 120" diagonal screen with a viewing distance of around 12-14' ... I could go a little larger but I don't want to expand the 80's too close to the side walls.

Whenever you say the new Panny, are referring to the AE3000?


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Re: A couple of front projection questions....
RickF #276034 10/23/09 08:51 PM
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The latest and yet to be released, very soon, is the AE4000


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Re: A couple of front projection questions....
jakewash #276036 10/23/09 08:57 PM
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Rick the 3000 and 4000 both have the built in adjustment, the 4000 has an option for it to auto detect the movie and adjust the aspect ratio automatically. Projector Central has a nice review comparing both of them, the 3000 is still a very nice projector, you might be able to pick one up cheaper soon...

With a 16:9 screen, your 2.35 material movies will be much smaller and have black bars on top and bottom, your 16:9 movies will be full screen. With a 2.35 screen your 2.35 movies will be full screen and 16:9 (HD broadcasts and some dvds) and 4:3 (standard tv signals) will have bars on the sides, less bothersome for me.


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Re: A couple of front projection questions....
SirQuack #276039 10/23/09 09:44 PM
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I hope with the auto detect it can still be manually adjusted. There are two cases: If using a player or a scaler before the projector which does a better job scaling the image to constant height (the auto would never trigger, yet you still want the anamorphic lens). Or an override for stupid studios which put their subtitles in the black bars (were you'd be forced to watch with the bars and not want it switching back and forth).


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Re: A couple of front projection questions....
ClubNeon #276043 10/23/09 11:12 PM
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If I remember correctly, this setting is optional in the setup menu in the 4000.


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Re: A couple of front projection questions....
SirQuack #276072 10/24/09 04:16 AM
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I'll be watching this thread. I'm not quite ready for a projector, but it will probably be my next major purchase after my new computer build (and accessories). I'm really hoping 2010 brings about the projector I want, anyway.

Re: A couple of front projection questions....
CV #276073 10/24/09 04:30 AM
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The 4000 is supposed to be REALLY good. And the starting price (and MSRP) is less than the now "outdated" 3000.

If I had the cash, I'd be getting the 4000.

My next screen will be 2.35:1 as well. I have 16:9 (HDTV) 104" which would be in the range of 130" for a 2.35:1 ratio screen to get the "same size" picture for watching HDTV broadcasts, but WOW. That would be an impressive size for movies.


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Re: A couple of front projection questions....
nickbuol #276075 10/24/09 05:37 AM
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Wow, screen sizes are getting CRAZY these days! I can still remember buying my very 1st 'big screen' tv back in my AirForce days... I got my very 1st credit card at this electronics store in Oklahoma City & promptly maxed it out on an enormous 27 inch Toshiba (yes, in 1991 they touted 27 inch tv's as 'BIG SCREEN') stereo tv & a $500 dollar Hi-Fi VCR with 'shuttle' rewind & fast forward (also known as 'THE SHIT' back in those days). And let me tell you I was one popular dude in those baracks. We'd cram up to a dozen guys in one of those cramped rooms to watch 'Rambo' or 'Terminator' or something like that. Ah the good ol days!

Now I'm on my second 65" widescreen tv and yet there are those on this board with 106" & higher projector screens... My God at this rate they're going to have to start building bigger houses because in 20 years you'll be able to buy a 210" laser tv... & my poor ol 65" Sharp will be demoted to the bedroom tv!


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Re: A couple of front projection questions....
Micah #276078 10/24/09 06:11 AM
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Reading a little on the PT-AE4000U, it does sound like a tremendous value. Stop making me think of switching up my priorities. Seriously, guys.

Re: A couple of front projection questions....
CV #276081 10/24/09 08:32 AM
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It's impressive that Panasonic set the price on the 4000 so that others may bring their prices down to an affordable level, I like that. And yes AE4000U does look like it would a great projector to have, what about this screen ... Da-Lite Advantage Manual


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Re: A couple of front projection questions....
RickF #276087 10/24/09 12:10 PM
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Hi Rick,

Just a comment in passing: Don't eliminate DLP front projectors from your consideration. In the various manufacturer demos I've seen, including Panasonics, I've generally found that the DLP front-projector images seem to have more "punch"--better contrast than the LCD front-projector images. It's a purely subjective judgment, but when I leave the Panasonic demo rooms, and they are quite impressive, and walk into an Optoma DLP demo room, there is something about the DLP image--the brightness and contrast--that I prefer. I used to criticize LCD projectors for the visible pixels, but with Panasonics, that's now a thing of the past, so it isn't that.

Full discolosure: I've been watching a Samsung DLP rear-projection HD set for five years or more now. There's something slightly more "dynamic" in DLP images that I seem to prefer, but is that because I've been watching DLP HD for so many years?

Regards,

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Re: A couple of front projection questions....
alan #276089 10/24/09 12:25 PM
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Hi Rick

I built my own screen. I bought some screen material on ebay, then used some 1/4 strapping and L brackets, wrapped the strapping in black felt. Took about 4 hours with help of my wife and for less then $200 we have an awsome 136" screen.

I am using the AE900, and the picture is great. I still have at least another 1500 hours left on the bulb so I won't be in the market for a new projector for another 3 to 4 years.

Now this screen option only works if you have a dedicated room like us. But it did save us many hundreds of dollars and I don't feel as I have given up any picture quality doing it this way.

At the sizes we you are talking about, I don't think the black bars on the top or bottom will bother you for 2.35:1 movies. I don't even notice them.

Now if you need to get the screen out of the way, then the DIY option won't work.

See this thread for pics.

http://www.axiomaudio.com/boards/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=13237&Number=185180#Post185180


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Re: A couple of front projection questions....
alan #276097 10/24/09 06:07 PM
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 Originally Posted By: alan
Hi Rick,

Just a comment in passing: Don't eliminate DLP front projectors from your consideration. In the various manufacturer demos I've seen, including Panasonics, I've generally found that the DLP front-projector images seem to have more "punch"--better contrast than the LCD front-projector images. It's a purely subjective judgment, but when I leave the Panasonic demo rooms, and they are quite impressive, and walk into an Optoma DLP demo room, there is something about the DLP image--the brightness and contrast--that I prefer. I used to criticize LCD projectors for the visible pixels, but with Panasonics, that's now a thing of the past, so it isn't that.

The old visible pixels, or "screen door effect" was from LCD projectors which shined the light through a panel. What you were seeing were the wires running to each cell of the matrix. Newer projectors use LCoS (Liquid Crystal on Silicon), these are chips which have the cells touching each other being controlled directly by the chip surface below them, thus no wires. But light can't shine through a chip, so the base of each cell is reflective so the light picks up a color as it bounces off the chip and out through the lens.

DLP is also mirror based (also called micro-mirror device), but each mirror can be moved by the chip below it. When the pixel is off the mirror reflects the light onto a black sink, when it's on it's out through the color filter and then through the lens. The problem I (and many others have) with single-chip DLPs is the filter is actually a wheel with red, green, and blue sections, which spins rapidly behind the lens. First the chip shows the red pixels while the red filter is there, and when it rotates to the green it quickly flips the mirrors to the green values, and so on. This is happening hundreds of times a second, so it shouldn't be visible. But peripheral vision is much more sensitive to movement, so I catch rainbows out of the corner of my eyes and I get sick in about 4 minutes of watching a single-chip DLP.

That brings out the 3-chip DLPs. They're pretty much the same, but there's a separate chip for each of the primary colors (RGB), and the filter is before a beam combiner (think prism), the combined beam then exits through the lens.

The 3-chip DLP is my pick for best looking projector of the current technologies. LCD or LCoS, just doesn't have the punch or depth, and the color-wheel based DLPs make me want to close my eyes and crawl away.

Panasonic does build 3-chip DLP, 1080p projectors. The PT-DW10000U and PT-DZ12000U fit the bill. But at around $40k to $50k, it's hard to imagine many people using them in their home theater.

I'll stick with my direct view plasma for now. Maybe the laser projectors will be cheaper, they should have a massive contrast ratio. The only thing I worry about with lasers, is their primary colors don't exactly match the hues selected by standards boards which were based upon phosphorescence of specific materials (which is why CRTs and plasma displays are the only technologies can be considered reference for color--but many makers don't use the exact materials anyway).


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Re: A couple of front projection questions....
ClubNeon #276098 10/24/09 06:54 PM
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Hunh, I thought LCoS was dead, but it's taken over LCD?


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Re: A couple of front projection questions....
ClubNeon #276099 10/24/09 07:59 PM
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 Originally Posted By: ClubNeon
 Originally Posted By: alan
Hi Rick,

Just a comment in passing: Don't eliminate DLP front projectors from your consideration. In the various manufacturer demos I've seen, including Panasonics, I've generally found that the DLP front-projector images seem to have more "punch"--better contrast than the LCD front-projector images. It's a purely subjective judgment, but when I leave the Panasonic demo rooms, and they are quite impressive, and walk into an Optoma DLP demo room, there is something about the DLP image--the brightness and contrast--that I prefer. I used to criticize LCD projectors for the visible pixels, but with Panasonics, that's now a thing of the past, so it isn't that.

The old visible pixels, or "screen door effect" was from LCD projectors which shined the light through a panel. What you were seeing were the wires running to each cell of the matrix. Newer projectors use LCoS (Liquid Crystal on Silicon), these are chips which have the cells touching each other being controlled directly by the chip surface below them, thus no wires. But light can't shine through a chip, so the base of each cell is reflective so the light picks up a color as it bounces off the chip and out through the lens.

DLP is also mirror based (also called micro-mirror device), but each mirror can be moved by the chip below it. When the pixel is off the mirror reflects the light onto a black sink, when it's on it's out through the color filter and then through the lens. The problem I (and many others have) with single-chip DLPs is the filter is actually a wheel with red, green, and blue sections, which spins rapidly behind the lens. First the chip shows the red pixels while the red filter is there, and when it rotates to the green it quickly flips the mirrors to the green values, and so on. This is happening hundreds of times a second, so it shouldn't be visible. But peripheral vision is much more sensitive to movement, so I catch rainbows out of the corner of my eyes and I get sick in about 4 minutes of watching a single-chip DLP.

That brings out the 3-chip DLPs. They're pretty much the same, but there's a separate chip for each of the primary colors (RGB), and the filter is before a beam combiner (think prism), the combined beam then exits through the lens.

The 3-chip DLP is my pick for best looking projector of the current technologies. LCD or LCoS, just doesn't have the punch or depth, and the color-wheel based DLPs make me want to close my eyes and crawl away.

Panasonic does build 3-chip DLP, 1080p projectors. The PT-DW10000U and PT-DZ12000U fit the bill. But at around $40k to $50k, it's hard to imagine many people using them in their home theater.

I'll stick with my direct view plasma for now. Maybe the laser projectors will be cheaper, they should have a massive contrast ratio. The only thing I worry about with lasers, is their primary colors don't exactly match the hues selected by standards boards which were based upon phosphorescence of specific materials (which is why CRTs and plasma displays are the only technologies can be considered reference for color--but many makers don't use the exact materials anyway).



Uuuhhhh.... Ok can I just say that your knowledge base in all this stuff scares me! \:o


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Re: A couple of front projection questions....
Ken.C #276100 10/24/09 08:29 PM
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 Originally Posted By: kcarlile
Hunh, I thought LCoS was dead, but it's taken over LCD?

I had to look into this. It does appear there are still quite a few non-LCoS, LCD projectors out there, including those made by Panasonic. Apparently there was an advancement I wasn't aware of in LCD panels which eliminated the appearance of the wires. The wires are still there, but optics are used to magnify the pixel area more than the wires between them. Sort of the opposite of what is done in a digital camera to capture light from a larger area than the small photo-receptors.

So LCD isn't dead, but nor is LCoS.


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Re: A couple of front projection questions....
Micah #276101 10/24/09 08:31 PM
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 Originally Posted By: Micah
Uuuhhhh.... Ok can I just say that your knowledge base in all this stuff scares me! \:o

Thanks. \:D All that was from my head too, except the models of the 3-chip projectors and their prices. I knew they existed, just had to look them up.


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Re: A couple of front projection questions....
Micah #276103 10/24/09 08:39 PM
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 Originally Posted By: ClubNeon

The old visible pixels, or "screen door effect" was from LCD projectors which shined the light through a panel. What you were seeing were the wires running to each cell of the matrix. Newer projectors use LCoS (Liquid Crystal on Silicon), these are chips which have the cells touching each other being controlled directly by the chip surface below them, thus no wires.

AFAIK only Sony and JVC make LCoS projectors at least in the sub $10,000 range. Everything in the sub $2,000 range is LCD or DLP. The LCDs have just gotten better at hiding the wires and in Panasonic’s case they use digital processing to eliminate the pixilation.

In the past I agree with Alan that DLP had an overall better picture than LCD, however I now feel that LCD is on almost on par with DLP and LCDs usually have better placement flexibility.

Rick - What are your intended uses for the projector? In my case features supporting my intended uses helped make me make my projector choice rather than just what reviewers think had the “best” picture.

Oops, looks like you caught that before I hit send.

Last edited by grunt; 10/24/09 08:41 PM.

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Re: A couple of front projection questions....
grunt #276104 10/24/09 08:58 PM
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Dean we'll use it primarily for watching movies, the 73" Mitsubishi will stay in the room and the pull down screen will be mounted in front of the TV so that for day to day viewing the TV will be used but I want to be able to pull down the screen for viewing movies and some TV programs with the projector.


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Re: A couple of front projection questions....
grunt #276105 10/24/09 08:59 PM
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I agree, LCD's are pretty much on par in the contrast department these days, unlike the past where DLP's one no contest.. Also, many people still are affected by the "rainbow" affect in DLP's, even with the faster wheels.


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Re: A couple of front projection questions....
SirQuack #276106 10/24/09 09:06 PM
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 Originally Posted By: sirquack
Also, many people still are affected by the "rainbow" affect in DLP's, even with the faster wheels.

One advantage of being old ... I have yet to see the rainbow effect on our Mits RP DLP for over four years, even after looking for it.


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Re: A couple of front projection questions....
RickF #276107 10/24/09 09:12 PM
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You can see....like.... runways and stuff, though...right?


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Re: A couple of front projection questions....
RickF #276109 10/24/09 09:17 PM
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 Originally Posted By: RickF
One advantage of being old ... I have yet to see the rainbow effect on our Mits RP DLP for over four years, even after looking for it.

Some people just don't see it, regardless of age. I don't see it on smaller screens which don't fill my field of view unless I turn my head and catch them from the corner of my eye. Walking through an electronics store with RP DLPs on both sides of an isle is a bit of a trip though.


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Re: A couple of front projection questions....
MarkSJohnson #276110 10/24/09 09:19 PM
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Some may argue that Mark. \:D


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Re: A couple of front projection questions....
ClubNeon #276111 10/24/09 09:20 PM
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I want to see a direct-to-consumer projector maker that stays on the bleeding edge of technology and offers a trade-up program. Can one of you start that company?

Re: A couple of front projection questions....
RickF #276112 10/24/09 09:24 PM
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Chris I wouldn't even know what to look for, but also my aim is to keep ignorant because *I know* that if I ever did see it I'd probably notice it every time while viewing a DLP picture.

So..

For primarily watching movies, what features would I need to be looking for? The light in the room is not an issue, all ambient light in the room can be eliminated on the brightest of days.


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Re: A couple of front projection questions....
ClubNeon #276113 10/24/09 09:26 PM
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 Originally Posted By: ClubNeon
So LCD isn't dead, but nor is LCoS.


Sony's rear-projection LCoS went away, which might be what Ken was thinking of. Their front projectors are still using SXRD? Does anyone talk about issues with the color going wonky over time? I have a second-generation SXRD rear-projection TV, and the screen has gone green. It started going yellow in the upper left corner, but now it's pretty much a greenish tint across the whole picture. This unit is actually a replacement for their first-generation SXRDs which had the same problem. I was hoping the issue had been resolved between generations, but I guess not. A tech is coming to diagnose the problem on Monday, but I'm sure it's the optical block again. The good news is that I have a five-year warranty which doesn't run out until 2012, and if they try to fix it three times and can't, then I get another replacement. If this is anything like the first TV, replacing the optical block will almost fix the problem, but there will be residual color issues. Hopefully not, but I wouldn't mind another new TV.

Re: A couple of front projection questions....
CV #276114 10/24/09 09:33 PM
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I wonder if the optical block is the same as the optical engine on our Mits DLP? It was just replaced a couple of months ago after pink hues and highlighting pixelation breakup, kudos to Mitsubishi who paid for the $450 optical engine after being out of warranty for four months ... still sucked paying $400 for labor though.


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Re: A couple of front projection questions....
RickF #276115 10/24/09 09:37 PM
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Could be similar, though when they replaced the optical block (I forget the other name they had for the part) they said it was a $1600 part. I imagine that's partly Sony's overblown pricing and partly the newness of the technology at the time.

Re: A couple of front projection questions....
CV #276117 10/24/09 10:32 PM
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...and Sony's quality control. While I really like the PS3 as a media player (and sometimes games), I won't buy any more of their stuff, it always breaks just out of warranty.


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Re: A couple of front projection questions....
ClubNeon #276118 10/25/09 12:24 AM
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 Originally Posted By: RickF

Dean we'll use it primarily for watching movies, the 73" Mitsubishi will stay in the room and the pull down screen will be mounted in front of the TV so that for day to day viewing the TV will be used but I want to be able to pull down the screen for viewing movies and some TV programs with the projector.

 Originally Posted By: RickF

For primarily watching movies, what features would I need to be looking for? The light in the room is not an issue, all ambient light in the room can be eliminated on the brightest of days.


If your primary use is movies, no gaming/computer and minimal HDTV then that simplifies things a lot. First I would go with Randy’s suggestion of a 2.35:1 screen and live with the smaller 1.78:1 and 1.33:1 images with dark vertical bars which I also agree with Randy are less distracting than the horizontal ones and easier to DIY mask should you choose to do so.

For movies you can look mostly at the projectors performance as the various features are more of a convenience than a necessity. Here is a guide at ProjectorPeople that covers a lot of what to look for:

http://www.projectorpeople.com/resources/buyersguide.asp

Some key things I would prioritize for movies are:

Placement needs - no point in getting a projector that won’t throw an image in your room. Look at zoom and horizontal and vertical image adjustment.

Brightness in best or movie mode - is it bright enough for your screen size, room conditions and projector distance. The brighter the image the more pop and wow it inspires, however to bright can cause eye strain.

Image detail - a detailed but “film like” image not a hyper-real digital video like image.

Black levels - darker blacks will enhance everything including colours and make the “black” bars less noticeable

Shadow detail - how well you can make out what’s in dark screen areas can make or break a lot of movie genres.

Colour accuracy/adjustment - if you don’t want to pay for professional calibration then how accurate is it out of the box or when adjusted by a layman.

Fan/iris noise - if the projector is going to be close to you fan or dynamic iris noise could be very irritating.

Remote control zoom/picture adjustment - ceiling or high shelf mounted projectors could be a pain if you want to adjust the zoom to maintain constant image height on a 2.35:1 screen.

Variable frame interpolation - can help reduce motion judder and enhance the 3D feel of animated movies. Can also reduce motion blur in sports. To much makes the image look digitized and stark. Not all manufactures do this well.

Warranty - Sony sucks, Epson rocks everyone else is somewhere in between.

Some things to consider:

Placement - the closer the projector is to the screen the brighter the image. The farther from the screen the more accurate the image especially at the edges of the screen.

1.78:1/1.33:1 - a 104” diagonal 2.35:1 screen will only give you about an 80” diagonal 1.78:1 image. Only slightly bigger than your Mitsubishi.

Personally if you were considering the AE3000 and still want a projector for under $2,000 unless you have a particular need/constraint contraindicating it the AE4000 is the way to go unless other manufacturers drop their prices accordingly.

A couple other links relevant to the discussion if you or others haven’t already seen them:

http://www.projectorreviews.com/advice/dlpvslcd/3LCD_vs_DLP_vs_LCoS.php

http://www.projectorreviews.com/advice/HomeTheaterProjector-FAQs/index.php

Cheers,
Dean


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Re: A couple of front projection questions....
grunt #276206 10/26/09 01:53 PM
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Pull down sounds important to your room design so I wouldn't be too concerned but I will add that I opted out of plans to go with a similar setup, I considered hiding the TV behind a pull down, as needed. In the demo rooms, the pull down screen were great. However, I demoed one in a co-worker's basement, similar to what mine would be like, and the vibrations of people walking overhead were sometimes ever so slightly noticeable in the screen. It was an older house and I suspect the newer style floor joists are a bitmore structurally stable but it made me nervous.

Again, not the correct solution for you, but should you decide to go with a permanent screen, I am VERY satisfied with my sub $200 dollar solution using a roll of Wilsonart Laminate - Designer White, code = D354-60. I cut it to size and framed it with black felt around wooded trim as described in another post above. I'm convinced the results in my light controlled room are every bit as as clear, colorful and bright as the thousand dollar plus screens that I demoed.


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Re: A couple of front projection questions....
RickF #276211 10/26/09 02:54 PM
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Rick,

Seeing the rainbow effects of a spinning color wheel in a single-chip DLP projector is not age-related and ClubNeon exaggerates (not for him) this aspect of DLP designs. The vast majority of viewers never see rainbow effects; millions of DLP sets have been sold.

I had to "teach" myself how to see them (I won't tell you how. . .) and I know of only one case (an Axiom customer whose wife was highly sensitive to rainbow effects) where a DLP set had to be returned.

Samsung also introduced a series of DLP sets that used sequentially firing LEDs (red, green, blue) that eliminated the color wheel. In that demo, I found it impossible to see any rainbow effects in the LED-driven Samsung light engine sets.

I'd concede with others here that the best LCD front projectors are now on a par with DLP so long as the color values don't shift with age. I have seen no reliable data that that occurs, only a biased DLP industry report that suggested it might occur over the long term with LCD front projectors.

Regards,

Alan


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Re: A couple of front projection questions....
alan #276214 10/26/09 03:52 PM
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I saw rainbows when I first got my DLP, but haven't seen them in the 5 years since after those first few weeks.


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Re: A couple of front projection questions....
MarkSJohnson #276215 10/26/09 04:02 PM
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Here is a good basics article on comparing the pros and cons of 16:9 vs. vs. 2.35:1 vs. 4:3 screen formats.

Projector Central -- Formats


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Re: A couple of front projection questions....
Murph #276224 10/26/09 04:52 PM
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Rick, if you put both hands out in front of your face about 12". Spread your fingers out, and wave your hands back/forth one on top of the other. This will give you a similar experience as to what it looks like. Beware, once you do this, you will forever see rainbows. \:\)


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Re: A couple of front projection questions....
SirQuack #276226 10/26/09 04:54 PM
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This sounds a lot like the time I told my buddy driving with me that if he held his head out the window, he would be able to brush his hair without a problem with static electricity on the brush.


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Re: A couple of front projection questions....
alan #276243 10/26/09 06:03 PM
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I only see the rainbow effect in my peripheral vision when moving my point of focus from one side of the screen to the other.

Re: A couple of front projection questions....
pmbuko #276244 10/26/09 06:05 PM
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Certainly explains the glancing lion in your avatar.


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Re: A couple of front projection questions....
Murph #276248 10/26/09 06:49 PM
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After seeing the rainbow, did any of you tear your television apart and look for the pot of gold?


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Re: A couple of front projection questions....
Micah #276251 10/26/09 07:53 PM
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No, but I hummed the melody of "Somewhere Over the Rainbow". . .


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Re: A couple of front projection questions....
alan #276260 10/26/09 08:50 PM
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I hum that whenever I'm in front of a urinal and having trouble starting.

Re: A couple of front projection questions....
pmbuko #276262 10/26/09 09:29 PM
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To answer the question about screen size and throw distance...

You have to figre out how big of a screen you want, then figure out if you can mount the projector back far enough. Personally I wanted a 118" but the projector (Epson 6500UB) would be quite close (13' or so) and using almost all the zoom, so I opted for the 110". Once you know the size, you can use the Projector Central calculator to figure out if the throw distance you have will work. From there, you can then determine the screen gain you will need as the throw distance will affect the brightness. Personally I feel it is best to mount the projector on the closer side as you will get maximum brightness without using a higher gain screen which can hurt black levels.

I just got the 6500UB with the big rebate about six weeks ago. It will be interesting to see how the A4000 and 8500UB fare, I'm sure they will be great. My biggest gripe with the Epsons is that they are white... But not a deal breaker. Epson does have double the warranty as well.



Last edited by Potatohead; 10/26/09 09:30 PM.
Re: A couple of front projection questions....
Potatohead #276274 10/27/09 12:51 AM
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Tater, actually the new Epson 8500U is looking really nice, Projector Central has a nice side by side review of both units and they seem to be quite close. I have read and have been told that the Epson does better in a room with a little bit of ambient light and the warranty is very good, a plus.

Of the DLPs I've read about, the Mitsubishi projectors looks nice but it looks like the Panny and the Epson units are really good bang for the buck units.

If money, say $6k or below were not an issue I wonder if that would change what projectors I *should* be looking at?

I'm at the very beginning stages of researching and do plan on taking my time to really figure out which projector would best work for us.


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Re: A couple of front projection questions....
RickF #276275 10/27/09 12:59 AM
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Do projectors require a dark room, or do they work ok in daylight, or otherwise well lit rooms?


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Re: A couple of front projection questions....
Micah #276288 10/27/09 02:26 AM
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Do they work in daylight, yes. Would you have the lights on in a movie theater, no. \:\)


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Re: A couple of front projection questions....
RickF #276301 10/27/09 05:04 AM
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 Originally Posted By: RickF

If money, say $6k or below were not an issue I wonder if that would change what projectors I *should* be looking at?


If I had nothing better to spend the extra 3-4k above the projectors you’re looking at I I’d be interested in the JVC and Sony LCoS projectors including last year’s JVCs which have if still available have dropped considerably in price.


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Re: A couple of front projection questions....
Micah #276375 10/27/09 07:40 PM
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 Originally Posted By: Micah
Do projectors require a dark room, or do they work ok in daylight, or otherwise well lit rooms?


In short, the darker the better.

They are definately better with ambient light then they used to be, but they are infinately better in the dark.

Last edited by Potatohead; 10/27/09 07:41 PM.
Re: A couple of front projection questions....
Potatohead #277190 11/01/09 07:20 PM
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Well, as I have bored many here with my purchase process and experience with a 118" Carada Brilliant White (fixed) screen and the Panny AE3000U, I won't repeat the whole build up. But suffice to say, after about 1,000 viewing hours, the move from a 50" Samsung DLP RPTV to the 118" Pany LCD projector was worth every penny.

I always felt LCD was inferior to DLP, but this round of LCDs really makes great blacks, and the colors pop. Often, I can't tell where the image ends and the black bars begin on 2.3 films as the blacks are flat black. In short, the blacks on my Panny Projector are MUCH better than the blacks on my Samsung DLP (circa 2005).

As for the size and shape, I went with 118" on 16:9 because I watch a lot of TV and sports, and also play a PS3, about as often as I watch movies. The wider format would mean watching less than a full screen most of the time. I have not regretted it, as the black bars really don't bother me at all because they are black - i.e., not there.

Light control is an issue, but one I was able to deal with. With blackout curtains behind the WAF curtains, the room is dark enough to watch at full brightness outside. No doubt, it looks better at night, but from 14' the 3000 lights up the screen with no problem - watching HD football at 3 pm with friends going in and out of the room generates no complaints. Skin tones are phenomenal and accurate, even if viewed from as little as 3 feet from the screen.

Lip sync is an issue, but I think you have a newer AVR so that is curable.

In short, for around $2000 plus screen (about $800 for mine) it is a no brainer compared to a new plasma or RPTV. The impact of a 1080p image at 118", about 12' from the seat, is so dramatic and involving you can't go wrong.

Going further up the food chain will give even better results - specifically LCOS by Sony or JVC for brighter rooms - but for the money, this is a very good and safe deal.

Last edited by Zimm; 11/01/09 07:20 PM.

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Re: A couple of front projection questions....
Zimm #277254 11/02/09 04:06 AM
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Thanks for updating. I’m also upgrading from a 2005 Samsung DLP and looking forward to it even more now with your observations. I can’t believe you’ve put 1000 hours on it already, just doesn’t seem that you got it all that long ago. I keep telling myself I’m going to use the Samsung for casual viewing and general computer use but I doubt that will last once I see the picture.

I was seriously considering a Sony or JVC LCoS but the price of the JVC and the notoriously bad things I’ve read about Sony customer service held me back. Your comments about the AE3000 make me feel Panasonic was a good choice.

Cheers,
Dean


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Re: A couple of front projection questions....
grunt #277297 11/02/09 04:15 PM
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I was off on the 1,000 hours. I thought I was near 900 and rounded up, but last night I saw that I was at 750, not 850. But I do tend to run this thing for as much as 12hrs on weekends, and several hours every night. On Saturdays it often gets fired up at 9 am for College Game Day and does not go off until after mid-night.

I bought the bulb warranty for $125, so I'm not overly concerned. I do run it on Eco mode often as the light decrease is minimal. Also, I run the fan on high as I can't hear it so why not keep it a tad cooler in there.


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Re: A couple of front projection questions....
Zimm #277332 11/02/09 06:15 PM
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My DLP averages about 10 hours a day mostly as a computer monitor. For now I’m only watching movies and gaming on days off so if I can resist using the projector as a monitor I’ll be putting many fewer hours on it.

Have you noticed the bulb dimming much after the first 750 hours?


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Re: A couple of front projection questions....
grunt #277350 11/02/09 08:27 PM
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No, no dimming yet. The bulb is supposed to last 2,000, and i'm hoping for more. So far, no issue.


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Re: A couple of front projection questions....
Zimm #277489 11/03/09 06:48 PM
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I'm still researching ... I was fortunate enough to hear from Michael D with a wealth of information that I need to mull over.


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Re: A couple of front projection questions....
RickF #277495 11/03/09 06:59 PM
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just drop some green man and get one, lol.


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Re: A couple of front projection questions....
SirQuack #277513 11/03/09 07:33 PM
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Did someone say Green Man?

Re: A couple of front projection questions....
SirQuack #277516 11/03/09 07:55 PM
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 Quote:
just drop some green man and get one


Yeah, before.... ummm....Christmas!


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Re: A couple of front projection questions....
Zimm #277569 11/04/09 07:01 AM
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 Originally Posted By: Zimm

I was off on the 1,000 hours. I thought I was near 900 and rounded up, but last night I saw that I was at 750, not 850. But I do tend to run this thing for as much as 12hrs on weekends, and several hours every night. On Saturdays it often gets fired up at 9 am for College Game Day and does not go off until after mid-night.


Now that I’ve got mine set up I can’t believe you’ve only got 750 hours on it! ;\)


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Re: A couple of front projection questions....
grunt #277572 11/04/09 07:14 AM
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With your guys' great reviews it makes me want to get one for the new house, unfortunately my wife is dead set against a projector.


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Re: A couple of front projection questions....
jakewash #277577 11/04/09 07:26 AM
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What's her problem with a projector?

Re: A couple of front projection questions....
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I think she just likes the idea of a "TV" and the older projectors were very dim. I think she has a hard time with the idea of the newer projectors being able to be used in a reasonably lit room.

On the plus side she is allowing me to get what ever flat panel I decide, unfortunately Pioneer Kuro's are too expensive for me. \:\(


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Re: A couple of front projection questions....
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Panasonic 58" G10 it is!

Re: A couple of front projection questions....
jakewash #279338 11/17/09 02:39 PM
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 Originally Posted By: jakewash
I think she just likes the idea of a "TV" and the older projectors were very dim. I think she has a hard time with the idea of the newer projectors being able to be used in a reasonably lit room.


I would not mislead you, it is an issue. I honestly could not recommend it without either (1) a dedicated room, (2) a pretty dark multi-use room, or (3) as a secondary source with a smaller primary TV for daytime and BS watching.

Sorry, hate to side with the WAF, but for this budget level, I have a hard time telling sombody to drop $3000 when, in truth, full time use in a lit room would inhibit enjoyment.


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