Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners Sibilance (How to minimise)?

Of all the issues with recordings, the one I hate the most is Sibilance as to my ears is contagious, one you hear it it seems to be present always! Taking the advice from Alan's latest newsletter I just listened to a bunch of tracks using all 5.1 speakers (Yami 7Ch Stereo Mode on my 5.1 setup) and overally it sounded great over the 2.0 Stereo settings.....Then on came Lily Allen's "22" and the sibilance was terrible. For me it is really distracting and then I tend to focus on this for the following tracks. I've an Epic 60-500 feed from an HTPC using Lossless tracks over HDMI using WASAPI via a Yami V2700. Couple of Q's:
1) Is Lily Allen's "22" truly terrible for sibilance (or is it just me or my setup)?
2) Is there any simple way to deal with this (in the past I've taged individual tracks to play with a modified

Thankssssssssss
Nathan

Hi Jmone,

I suspect the sibilance is on the original recording, whether through an incompetent recording engineer or even the artist herself. The reason I cite the latter is that I was once at a reception after a concert of Holly Cole (early in her career). The vocal mike she used for the concert had a horrible presence peak that emphasized sibilance. When I spoke to her, I gently asked her about the mike and she replied that it was her "favorite" and that she used it for recording. (Her early CDs were very sibilant). Anyway, I suggested that she not use it anymore because of the grating sibilance. I presume she took my advice because later on her CDs were fine.

You can check your recording if you play the recording and listen through good headphones--just play it in stereo and see if it still sounds sibilant. If it does, then the problem is in the original recording and it's really hard to correct.

You can try using the treble control to reduce the sibilance, but usually its effects are too broad. You'd really need to insert an equalizer into the center channel and adjust the midrange controls, which might help, but you may have to live with it.

Regards,
Alan

As much as I've always loved Billy Joel's "Songs in the Attic", I could never understand including the particular recording of "Miami 2017 (Seen the Lights go out on Broadway)" in that is has the worst sibilance I've ever heard (emphasized on purpose by Joel himself for some reason). I have to skip the track because it's so annoying!

Oh, and Alan, can you speak to Tom Petty and Eddie Vedder to see if they can do something about their intelligibility? Dylan's a lost cause at this point....

Found a link to Billy Joel's performance.

Hi Mark,

Overwhelming sibilance on some recordings is one of the downsides of really linear hi-fidelity speakers, because as most everyone knows, they reveal the problems of the source recording, warts and all. If you played the Billy Joel recording on some mediocre car speakers or boombox, it might sound quite good. That, of course, is the reason why some recording engineers goose the midrange so it will have "presence" on small, inadequate playback systems.

It's a terrible practice and kind of a holdover from the era of vinyl, where there were real losses in fidelity that engineers tried to compensate for by boosting the mids and highs--and sometimes the bass. You reminded me of an early Billy Joel CD I owned that was horribly sibilant, so much so that I didn't put it into my mega-changers because I found it unlistenable.

Plus you never know what "monitors" a recording is mixed with. If the playback monitors in the control room have a midrange dip, then the engineer will boost the midrange to compensate and that will sound grating and sibilant on a linear system.

Alan

Oh, that recording I linked to would sound sibilant if only played through a subwoofer!

Joel sang that way purposely on that performance.... I just don't know why they included THAT version on an otherwise good CD!

Hi,

I just listened to the Billy Joel link, and it's sibilant, that's for sure. It's also a live concert and I wonder if the engineer upped the EQ on his vocal mike for intelligibility.

It's annoying, because the miking of the other instruments seems quite good--the piano is fine, likewise the bass and the guitars.

Lots of vocal mikes have a switch that will put a big bump--up to 6 dB--in the sibilance region.

But I have some CDs that are even worse on the vocals than the Billy Joel example. If memory serves, there was an early Donald Fagen release--the CD booklet showed him at an old studio microphone, an RCA, I think. It was released very early in the CD era and the sibilance is truly awful. Was it called "Nightfly"? I played it once and never listened again.

Alan

Interesting! I've always thought of Nighfly as a good recording. Let me go put it on!

Put some clothes on too, while you're at it.

Me too, in fact to my ears it's one of the best recordings that I own, but that's the DVD-Audio disc, not the original CD so it's not likely an apples-to-apples comparison.

<goes to dig it out...>

I knew my webcam would eventually reveal my open bathrobe...

Now I'm going to have to dig out that CD as well, to make sure my memory isn't faulty. It was available in Canada right after CD was introduced there, about 1983.

I bet later editions were re-mastered.

Anyway, if I still have it, I'll report back.

Alan

I'm halfway through it, and it's not sounding sibilant to me at all. I certainly wouldn't characterize the recording as dull sounding, but no sibilance issues here!

Mark, check the date on the CD, maybe it's a remaster, Alan's was from the early 80s.

Mark,

Oh, that's a relief. I wouldn't want to denigrate Donald Fagen's reputation based on a poorly mastered CD that I may have bought in Europe or Japan. I couldn't find my copy of "Nightfly" (I might have traded it in) but I did find an early Billy Joel CD, "52nd Street," dated 1978. It was produced by CBS/Sony in Japan, where I likely bought it. (I got some early CDs on press trips to Germany and Japan before they were sold in Canada.)

The Billy Joel disc has nicely balanced sound with the exception of one track. On the cover, he has an Afro (!) and is holding a trumpet. No piano visible.

My copy of Nightfly may still turn up in my storage locker.

Alan

All the © notices say 1982....

Alan, no real relevance to this topic but back a couple of years ago I picked up the DVD Audio version of "Nightfly". Like it was recorded yesterday.

Ooooohhh, for me, that's usually a bad thing....

I use JR Media Center and a EQ Plug-in that lets you set a custom +/- 12dB over 10 bands for each track (if you want) and I've tried to reduce the impact as as follows....
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=54101.0;attach=1332;image


So it seems, all I can do is reduce the impact....still sounds terrible on all but the Car FM Radio.....

Thanks
Nathan

Has anyone noticed a slight lisp in Diana Kralls voice or am I hearing things?

Nathan,

Yes, I know exactly what you're talking about. Even "living with it" is difficult. I've removed excessively sibilant CDs from my CD changers because I hate listening to them.

If you ever run into Lily Allen, you should tell her about the sibilance. She might do something about it.

Regards,
Alan

Adrian,

You're not hearing things. I only have one or two of her recordings, but the vocals are slightly sibilant. Tolerable, but sibilant nonetheless.

Alan

Agreed on the Diana Krall. It's not every track, so it's extra irritating.

Ditto, to Diana Krall being sibilant.

Apparantly at 24 (and 1 album) she has run out of things to write/sing about....