Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater M22 or In-Cabinet M60s?

Hey Y'all -

I've been lurking on the forums for a while now, trying to learn as much as I can about the Axiom line of speakers. From what I can tell, they appear to be very worthy of consideration. I need some advice and comments on which Axiom Home Theater setup would be best for my situation.

My wife and I had a new house built in late 2006 and early 2007 on 42 acres in NW Arkansas. Before we started building the house, my old home theater receiver died. Knowing that we were going to build, I just boxed up the speakers and various other components thinking that I'd drag them out again when I got in the new house and got over the financial hurdles that come with building one.

Well, time gets away from me pretty easily, and now I've been without an audio system for more than four years. Last winter, we bought a new Sony 52" LCD flat screen, and have been using the TV speakers for sound.

Anyway, to ty to make a long story short, I've finally got around to buying a new receiver. I got a Yamaha RX-V765 last Friday. So, I dug out the old speakers and other components so I can set things up. I'm looking to upgrade the speakers in the enar future, and I'm trying to decide which ones will fit the given space and constraints that I have somehow wedged myself into.

The kids are gone, the wife is retired now, and so the new house is only about 2000 square feet. Being in Arkansas, the bedrock is only 2' below grade, so no basement. As a result, we have to live with the "home theater" being in the great room (or whatever you want to call it.) We have an open floor plan, so the great room, dining room, and kitchen are all basically one big space. Altogether it comes to about 7000 cubic feet.

We enjoy watching movies, but we are also both musicians. So music is a big part of our lives. Being in our mid fifties, we don't need quite the high volume levels that younger folks may desire. Still, we do enjoy a variety of music: 60's and 70's rock, country, bluegrass, blues, and some classical. So we do enjoy concert-hall levels some of the time.

I've been looking at the Epic Grand Master 500, and the Epic 60 Home Theater 500 as possible candidates. The thing is, our great room arrangement makes it a bit difficult to fit in those M60s. We have one of those notorious wall units, and unfortunately, the wife says I'm stuck with it. Our wood stove is also close to the wall unit, so setting an M60 on the right side of the unti would be very bad news for the life of the speaker. I'm ryingt o decide if putting the in-cabinet M60s in the wall unit would be better, or if I can get by with the M22s mounted on the wall with the Full Metal Brackets.

The seating is about 13' from the wall unit. I'll post a picture so you can get an idea what the "great room" looks like. The TV in the photo has been replaced by the 52" flat screen now.

So, What do y'all think?

Here's the photo:

Since Axion has an excellent 30-days in house trial policy, you could order some M22s and judge if they fullfil your needs. You can call them to ask them if, in the advent that you decide to up to in-cabinet M60s within that timeframe, what would be the shipping cost back of the M22s (might be low/free if you ask nicely!).

So you would replace those shelves with a blank front and the in-cab M60s? I'm just trying to get a picture of what you're contemplating.

Beautiful room, Dave. I see what you were referring to reg the wood stove in the corner there. The M22 will give you more placement options obviously, vs the in-cabinet M60. When you spoke of putting the M60 in-cabinet in the wall unit, you must then be considering modifying your wall unit, correct? In this case, I would contact Axiom, and ask them what the dimensional requirements are (behind the baffle) of the M60 in-cabs. You might consider the W-22s in this case, as well.

The cabinets of the M22's are actually fairly deep at 19-20 inches and are rear ported so they need to be set up a few inches off the wall, if you were considering placing them on/in the wall unit. The brackets would work on the outside of the wall unit as long as you feel the speakers would be far enough away from the stove.

I'm thinking the M22's might work the best for you here, and they are, by all accounts, a wonderfull speaker, but the M60s could also work well if you modify the wall unit accordingly.

I know, I'm sitting on the fence.....

Adrian, I think you meant the M22s are fairly tall at 19-20 inches, they are only 8" inches deep making them easy to fit on a shelf as long as you have enough height.

My mistake! the terrorist is correct.

You man the "terrifying", terrorist!

I'd go with the M22's. And a couple of EP800's on either side of the wood stove should really do the trick!

pn

Yes, that's what I had in mind. The M60's aren't as wide as the wall unit shelves. I was also thinking of building some new narrow shelves to fit in there. Maybe build a divider and put the M60 on the inside of the unit, but toward the outer edge, and then put some narrow shelves in the remaining space. I suppose I'd have to get some grille cloth to cover the M60s.

I believe they come with grills.

Thanks, Adrian.



The opening in the side units is exactly 39", which is the size of the front baffle on the in-cab M60s, so I suspect they'd fit. I'd check with Axiom before I ordered, though. My biggest concern hee would be the possibility of unwanted vibration in the unit.

If I go with the M22's, I can mount them to the wall on either side of the outside of the unit at about 6' (to the top of the speaker cab,) and angle them downward to hit the listening position at about 42" above the floor. When it gets a little colder outside I'll test the heat at that level and see if I think it'll it get too hot. I've had the stove lit a couple times already this year, so it won't be long.

Thanks for the comments.

Cool! I'll have to verify that with Axiom. If I go that route, I would want to have them built to match the stain on the wall unit and then select a good matching grille cloth.

Worf, those EP800s could probably REPLACE the wood stove. I know, I'll just heat the house with them!

Don't forget another behind the couch.


And another in the bathroom.

Dave, you could isolate the in-cabinet M60 from your entertainment unit by use of a gasket of sorts, or maybe some of the foam gasket tape from Parts Express, if you are concerned about some kind of vibration resonances from the wall unit.

Thanks - I'll look into that!

So - you don't think it would be a bad thing to put the M22's on the side shelves of this unit? That might be the easiest thing. The shelves are 17" deep and 19" wide, so they'd fit just fine, and there would be plenty of space behind them on the shelves. I was just worried about the way putting them in the units would change the dispersion characteristics.

Hmm..

That 52" LCD will put out a fair amount of heat. I have a 52" LCD Sony in larger room and it keeps it warm. My first thought was to go with the M60s and make some sort of insulative screen to keep the heat off the speakers. If you are talking about modifying the cabinet - you must have some woodworking acumen. Of course, this idea probably does not clear the WAF.....Rob

I've had the 52" Sony for about a year. It does put out some heat, but not nearly what that woodstove will. I had that bugger up to 700 degrees a few times last winter. the back of the wall unit where the TV is mounted is open, so the air flows pretty well. In fact, I doubt if the speakers would even feel the wood stove heat if they are in the side shelf units. The side of the one closest to the stove gets slightly warm when the stove is cookin', but not so much that I worry about it a lot.

And yes, I do a bit of woodworking. If I do anything to the cabinet, I would build an insert so the cabinet could be restored to it's original form. I guarantee the wife would have to approve the matter first. But, she's seen my work, so I don't think it would be a big problem.

Dave, welcome. If the M22s would fit the height of the shelves there wouldn't be an adverse effect on the dispersion characteristics as long as you didn't recess the M22s into the unit. The front of the M22s should protrude about 1/2" beyond the front edge of the shelf so that diffractions and reflections are minimized.

Thanks, JohnK -

It sounds like I can go with the M22s. It would certainly require a lot less effort on my part. As EFalardeau said, I could always return them if I was not satisfied. Adrian also suggested that the M22s would work. So it sounds like there's an Epic Grand Master setup in my future. Now to decide on finishes.

BTW - I'll definitely post pictures when I get everything set up.

Thanks everyone for your helpful advice!

As long as the M22's height is not an issue they will work great for your space and situation, looking forward to some pics of the system

I guess I'm a little late to the party. I just unboxed my T60's tonight.

They do come with a rubber pad on the bottom to help isolate from the cabinet. I plan on building my face frame in place, around the speaker, to get a good fit. They are heavy, and I think if I build the opening first, I'm going to have a hard time sliding it into place. There's about 1/2 lip all the way around for overlap.I will probably line the front edge behind the baffle with some thin weather stripping as well to keep it from rattling.

I got mine with black faces and black cloth just to keep it simple. you can get a paintable version, or a real wood version to stain to your liking, but it doubles the price.

It sounds like you're settled on the M22's, but I thought I would at least add my $0.02.

We'll need pictures and a review. This is the first time I've seen anyone on the forums with the in-cab speakers.

Hi rprice54 -

Thanks for the information. I haven't completely decided on M22s or T60s yet. I'm still waffling. I'd really appreciate knowing the exact measurements (height and width)of the portion behind the baffle, including the rubber pad. That would essentially be size of the opening in the face frame wouldn't it?

It looks from your photos like there's a portion of the baffle that does not have the black oak vinyl covering. I was thinking about installing them so the baffle would be proud of the face frame. From the photos, it looks like the bare portion would be exposed. I may have to paint the bare part.

What I had in mind is an insert that would go in the existing cabinet. It would hold the T60 to the outer side of each cabinet and then provide a set of narrower shelves on the inner side. No physical alterations to the cabinets would be necessary this way. See below:

If you can pull that one off, Dave, I think I might have to change my recommendation on the M22!!

Agreed, that would be very cool.

I may have neglected to mention that the existing shelves are removable. So it would be a simple matter of building a pair of inserts that would accommodate the T60s. At any rate, I'm going to look long and hard at this before I decide. I think this may be doable, but only if the dimensions on the 60s are right.

I'll keep y'all posted.

I think that diagram looks cool as hell! What is that wall unit made out of? If it's oak then I would say you'll probably be alright, it should be sturdy enough to absorb most/all of the rattles. If it's pine, then perhaps rattles could present themselves to be pesky. My vote goes for the in-cab T60's!

Thanks. Micah. The wall unit is made of heavy southern yellow pine, not oak. However, I do understand your concern about rattles, etc. This unit is solid, though. The pieces are made of 5/4 thick rails, stiles and panels, not thin stuff like you find in DIY stores. And it's glued, not nailed together.

I have a subwoofer on the floor right next to the wall unit right now, and bookshelf speakers of "the brand that shall not be named" on the middle side shelves.

Although I'm sure there is resonance going on, there are no audible signs of it. That may change with the greater bass response of the T60s. But, I suspect that oak would be somewhat better. There still would be some resonance, but at different frequencies and/or amplitude than that of pine.

The only reason I don't just go with the M22s is that I do enjoy MUSIC, and sometimes want to enjoy it in good old fashioned stereo without the distortions and phase problems inherent in a processed surround matrix.

Obviously, this would be an experiment. Who knows? It may work. Then again, the resonance problems may send me right back to the bookshelf approach. I could always put the T60s in my office.

I can't wait to see what it looks like when you are finished!

Well, you could always draw a picture of your artistic interpretations of what it will look like.....