Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater M60 speakers behind screen recessed into wall

I am building a recess into a wall that may be as big as two feet to house M60's and VP150. This is to incorporate an acoustic screen as I need the space for the largest screen the room will handle. I can build the wall out further for the screen if I have to but would prefer to keep the room size as large as possible too. I noticed the M60's are ported in the rear. How close can they sit to a wall without hurting sound quality?

It varies from room to room, and is no different than m80's or other ported speakers. You will have to experiment, but I would say you should allow at least 6-8" behind the speaker. Also, I would consider that you may upgrade some day, and you don't want to restrict yourself if you get M80's or other speakers.

Keep in mind the BIGGEST screen is not always best, it depends on how far your viewers will sit back from the screen. My screen is a 2.35 aspect ratio and 120" wide, people in the front row, 13ft back, often say that fast action movies are hard to follow as your eyes dart back and forth. Make sure you think about everything...

Maybe it would be better to not use a transparent screen, is there a reason you want to hide the speakers. It may be just me, but I don't want to hide something that you pay that much for and looks that nice. Have you considered the M60 cabinet speakers?

Yeah here is the problem. I have an 8 foot ceiling with a support beam running right above where the screen will mount. The screen size will probably be 100". I have 93" now and would be happier with slightly more. If I run the center channel under the screen it will be a bit low for optimal listening position and i worry that the second row will not get the best sound possible. I also would like to be able to mess with the angle of the speakers from time to time to ensure i am happy with the sound quality in the room.... This kind of rules out the on walls and in cabinet speakers as they need to be mounted. The wife is not particularly happy with the size of the M60's so placing them behind the screen solves that problem for me. The plan kind of incorporates a number of concerns and concessions......

Why not get a 2.35 screen since most movies are in that format, then you won't get black bars on the top and bottom. Since the height of the screen won't be as tall as a 16:9 screen, you could get a wider screen that would work better with your 8ft ceilings, and allow the center to be higher.

The Panny 3000 and 4000 have a built in technology that will adjust the picture for 2.35 movies and 16:9 movies. This way you get a "true" feeling like being in the movie theaters for cinemascope movies. When watching 1.85 movies, or HD tv, you would have some black bars on the side, but still get the full height. Much less distracting, and easier to mask off with curtains or whatever, if you want.

Hi!



I really have nothing to add, but I didn't want this to just be an Aspicer1/Sirquack thread. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

I will add that I have my M80's 19 inches from the back of the speaker out from the wall. Closer than that they started sounding a bit too boomy for me. Further out and they started to lose some of thier slam. I do know the 60's have the same two woofers as the 80's so they may present the same challenges. But I don't really know the best spacing for 60's. And it is all room related as quacky said.

In addition to Micah's response, the spacing between my wall and back of my m80's is about 12" now. I also have super chunk bass traps and first reflection zone panels..

What are super chunk bass traps and first reflection zone panels?

If the rear port is causing you concern maybe try the M60 in wall, as the port in on the front and you could build your own case to house them in. It won't need to be fancy as the speaker will be behind the screen.

Bass Traps treat corners of rooms, including wall/floor and wall/ceiling, if done correctly. Bass traps are panels that straddle the corners, just like in recording studios, as bass collects in corners, which skews the overall frequency response in a room. Many think this only applies to recording studios, which is untrue, the same applies to home applications. Superchunks are the same material, but they fill the corner from floor to ceiling versus panels stradleing the corners. First reflection panels are acoustic panels that are placed in the "first reflection" points on your walls/ceilings. This helps tame the non-directional sound coming from the speaker, so the sound is not skewed and more tight/detailed.

Think about when you clap your hands loud in a room with bare walls and floors, you hear terrible echos. With treatments, you don't.

We could all use a little treatment.....

Hey that idea of building their own mobile enclosures for the in-wall M60's is brilliant! This way he keeps the mobility he's looking for, while being able to keep them tight against the wall. This forum really does rock!!!

I have been thinking of selling my M80s for a set of the inwalls just because I have to keep them so close to the wall all the time. I came to the conclusion a nice box built to my own tastes, well my wife's, should be realatively simple or as hard as I want(curved wood anyone?) and I could then stain it to match the new house trim.

Hi Sirquack

I have been thinking about doing this myself. Same reason, to eleminate the black bars on the bottom and top of the screen to give it a more "movie theater" like experience. This would give me more room to geve me other options; such as adding a 2nd VP150 at the top of the screen or just simply dressing the screen up with curtains.

Moving to a 2.35 screen. I have a question though. I don't think my Panasonic PT-AE900 allows me to change 16:9 HD format to the 2.35 format. Are there any other options to do this without replacing the projector?

paul

You can get an anamorphic lens, and a video scaler. The scaler is placed before the projector to remove black bars from 2.35 films and scale them up to fill the full display chip in the projector. This is called vertical stretch. The anamorphic lens then does a horizontal stretch optically to fill the screen.

These two items together will probably cost as much as a new projector which does all of this internally.

You could also project the image on a screen made of Silly Putty and stretch accordingly.

Don't sell, upgrade through Axiom. You won't lose much money at all that way.



(unless you have a guy on the hook that's willing to pay more than initial cost because you've gone ahead and done a thorough break-in on them)

I would prefer the floor standing M60 but the Cabinets might be an option. I like the floor standing because i want to be able to angle them from time to time to find my sweet spot..... What about placing acoustic panels behind the speakers against the rear wall to reduce reflection?

The suggestion is to build a portable frame for the cabinet. You see the incab's have the front port so you don't need to worry about them being right up against the wall. However if you build a portable frame you could do all of the angling you wanted. It's the best of both worlds in my opinion.

Although it is not the same thing, you can also zoom any projector to get rid of the black bars.

would the front ports create vibrations on the screen? They will probably be 6 to 8" from the screen....

Well it's at the bottom. I'm not sure how far down your screen will reach. It's possible, although I would think you'd have to really be cranking it to get that much air flowing.

Highly doubtful that the port would move enough air to cause any screen issues.

Micah, if I use the trade up I have to purchase more than I need to in order to get the full amount. I can sell them for more on my own.......I hope.

regarding the M60 in cabinet idea..... How do those mount anyway? Do you have to build custom cabinetry? Can they be mounted in wall like the W150 and such?

How deep are your walls? The "cabinet" versions of the floor standards are made like the in-walls, but they're deep enough that they won't fit in most walls. So yeah, you'd more than likely have to build a custom cabinet, or perhaps a false wall.

Actually i am building out the walls several feet... This will leave plenty of room. How do they mount? the in walls just mount using the drywall as the support. I assume In Cabinet M60's are way too heavy for that.... Do they have to sid on the floor or can i mount them higher up in the wall?

They appear to sit on the floor, but that is just my observation from the pics. I haven't seen an owners manual on the site yet. Hopefully Alan might be around to shed some light on this.

No, I think the baffle extends below the bottom of the cabinet.

If you wanted to mount an in-cabinet the size/weight of the M60 above floor you'd almost definitely need a cross brace between two studs to support the weight imo.

Yeah thats what i thought. Hopefully they will add a manual soon. I sent the team an email and will post the reply....

Yes, the baffle does but the main box looks to sit on the inside of the cabinet bottom, at least that was what I meant.

medic8r to the rescue?

So far i have received the dimensions and some basic mounting from JC. Hopefully they will put together a manual soon. Basically he said you need to build a "niche" for the in cabinet speakers.

better give these guys a call....

They are also available in the regular vinyl finishes like the rest of their speakers for a 12% upcharge. This means I can get the Boston Cherry If i decide to mount them in the walls instead of behind the screen which is where i started in this thread. Funny how the more I talk through this the more i change my mind. I suppose it is the best way to ensure that in the end i have considered all options and there will be no regrets. I'm going to spend a ton of money so i want the room to be as nice as i can make it technically and aesthetically.

I may need some help from the niche professionals

I've always found it a lot easier to find a niche than it is to fill one.

She has to be willing.

Not back in the days when we carried clubs around. Ah those were the days, see a chick you liked, you club her over the head and drag her back to your cave. Of course HT's were pretty basic back in those days. They consisted of a few chalk drawings on your main wall and that was pretty much it.

Yeah screw that, dispite the fact that I can't knock a girl over the head when I want to get laid, I'm glad I live in the modern age!

I have the In-cab M60's. The front baffle has a 1cm lip all the way around, so you can't just put them on the floor (well you can, but I don't think the baffle will support the weight.) Otherwise, the cabinet is a box. You could very easily take some 1/2 thick material and wrap the speaker in it to convert it to a "floorstanding" speaker. If looks aren't an issue, just glue some to the bottom. They are very heavy, you'll need some type of wood support if you try to lift them up and put them in the wall.

No ports on the back though, which would fit your needs.

I don't have mine installed yet, but they are currently in my BR, about 6" from the wall, and sound great. See my sig for a few pics of the speakers.