Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Blue Ray or PS3?

Trying to decide to get a nice Blue Ray or a PS3. I don’t play video games and hope i never will. Totally addictive personality. However several of my friends say their PS3 has a higher picture quality than their Blue Ray player. If this is true then why not just get a PS3? They are certainly cheaper than so called higher quality Blue Rays.

Thoughts?

The PS3 is probably one of the cheapest profile 2.0 players on the market... or at least it was (haven't followed new BR players lately).

I would highly recommend it. However, you have to buy the PS3 remote separately. Also, with the PS3 you can stream netflix if you have a netflix account.

However, I find that the netlfix interface on the PS3 is kind of sluggish (browsing for movies only- they play fine.) I prefer the xbox360's netflix interface.

Huh, Dont have a netflix account but that sounds pretty cool. I also didnt think of the remote. So they sell a remote for people like me who want to use it as a Blue ray? I guess i,m not the first to consider this. So your recommendation if for PS3 / xbox over Blue ray?

If you don't play games I would get something like a Panny or Samsung Bluray player.

Ok, is there a benefit to pairing the Blue Ray with the receiver? i have a Denon receiver and thought if not the PS3 then the Denon Blue ray?

I think the only benefit would be that it looks cool having two similarly shaped components.

I personally think denon asks too much for their bluray players.

The PS3 remote is about$20-30, otherwise you can use the supplied PS3 controller to navigate through blurays.

The PS3 is still one of the best Blu-ray players around. When it comes to actual Blu-ray playback between the PS3, Panasonic, OPPO etc the differences are slim to none. Now the Panasonic and Oppo will have slightly better upconversion for DVD's over the PS3 - not a night and day difference. Load times are all very good, with a few seconds faster with the Oppo player.

The biggest differences in these players are the feature sets. The advantages of the PS3 is that it plays the newest console video games. The price alone for this is worth it if you are a gamer. The PS3 does not have analog inputs but this feature only matters if you have an old receiver without hdmi and will not be able to take advantage of the new audio codecs then. The fan noise with the PS3 will be louder over other Blu-ray players but when it comes to upconversion, load times, Blu-ray playback it is a great buy for the money- it does all this very well. The PS3 also supports netflix now which is a bonus.

If you don't play games and want a quality, quiet, reliable standalone player with not a lot of bells and wistles, the Panasonic models are terrific.

If you want a player with all the bell's and wistles (DVD, Blu-ray, SACD, DVD-A, analog inputs etc) the OPPO is for you.

In conclusion, there is no actual night and day differences between these quality players. It just depends on what features you are interested in.

Don't forget, the PS3 also gives you streaming audio and pics from your computer - wirelessly if you like. I like that feature. Also, while I hate Sony, the PS3 is kept at the cutting edge with constant updates that assure you get the newest features.

But, the PS3 is HDMI-centric. If you don't care for the other features and don't have HDMI, you could likely save a few coins with a stand alone player and get a bit more simplicity.

I have an older Sony reiver that has HDMI, but doesn't pass sound through it. It requires an optical audio cable in addition to the HDMI cable. Make sure that you're receiver passes both sound and audio through the HDMI cable if you go with the PS3, because I doubt that it will have optical audio cable connections.

I feel the PS3 is superior to the Xbox 360 as a media player. But this is just a personal preference.

So fringe benefits of the PS3 as blu-ray over other blu-ray players:
- Plays games
- Try game demos from the PS3 network
- Rent HD movies from the PS3 network
- Great media player (for your pictures and home movies. Rips *cough* too)
- Free Netflix streaming if you subscribe

Some newer blu-ray players do stream Netflix movies but they come in at a similar price point to the PS3.

The PS3 does have an optical out. It can send video over HDMI while the audio (lossy core only, but that's a limit of optical) is bitstreamed to the receiver. I had this setup before I got my new receiver. It worked fine. Actually the new 3.0 firmware, can have both the optical and HDMI active at the same time, before you were limited to one or the other.

I vote for PS3. For technical reasons (mostly involving audio mixing, and 100% of the Blu-ray feature-set), I feel it is still the best player out there. better than even the Oppo; unless you plan to watch a lot of DVDs, and desire the best possible upscaling. Even then, there's no reason Sony couldn't improve their upscaling because it is done entirely in software, and has been improved in the past.

never heard of oppo by the way? New to the industry?

Oppo is not new to the industry. They make world class products in my opinion. Known for good customer service as well. This is the Blu-ray player I am talking about in question.

http://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-bdp-83/

(They're just internet-direct, so most non-audiophiles don't know about them since they're not in the Best Buy sale flyers)!

Ok Cool! Thanks

I do play games and I still bought the BD player. Using the PS3 for a standalone BD player to me is a bit cheesy (flamesuit on), you have to deal with a system that won't accept infrared remotes (unless they've fixed that) and the original PS3 would not bitstream the new audio codecs but I hear that is fixed with the PS3 slim.

I recommend the Panasonic BD-65

It is true that the PS3 can't use an infrared remote without some kind of IR to Bluetooth transceiver, but I prefer the RF remote that I don't have to point directly at the component.

As for bitstreaming audio, this is what I was talking about as a technical limitation of Oppo's player. You don't bitstream video. The video is decoded from the disc and combined with pop-up menus or pic-in-pic special features or what ever is offered by the Blu-ray spec, then it is sent as decoded pixels over the HDMI link. No one thinks twice about that, it is just how it is done.

Bitstreamed audio was a hack that came about during Laserdisc times, when an additional audio format was shoehorned onto the disc without it being part of the original specification, much like DTS on audio CDs. It continued to exist on DVDs as there was still no way to deliver multi-channel audio in a digital format. The S/PDIF interface only supports two PCM channels.

Now in the age of Blu-ray and HDMI, we have a method of transferring at least 8 PCM channels across one wire. There's no reason to move the raw data from the disc. Additionally, Blu-ray discs have the ability to mix audio from multiple sources before sending it out of the player. Very much the same thing as the pop-up menu over the live video. But if the audio is being streamed off the disc there's no way to do any live manipulation of that data. It has to first be decoded into PCM. This is the proper way for a play to handle BDs, decode the compressed track, and output multi-channel PCM.

The Oppo player doesn't have a powerful enough DSP chip to decode the lossless (Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD MA) track and then be able to do the realtime mixing. So it instead uses the lossy "core" tracks when any mixing is requested. Oppo's tech support says to disable all secondardy audio mixing so you're guaranteed to get the lossless track. That's a work around which prevents the full support for the Blu-ray spec. Plus a disc can force audio mixing through BD-Java, then the player's preference is ignored and you get the lossy track.

Many people don't like the secondary audio mixing, or BD-Live for that matter. I don't disagree with those opinions, but at the same time I want a player which can provide every part of the BD standard. Right now the PS3 is the only player I know which can do everything. Though I believe other's with lossless + 2nd audio are in the pipeline (or may have been recently released). Oppo's player just doesn't have the hardware to do it, so it won't be showing up in a firmware fix.

If I understand you correctly, my Panasonic is the same way, it won't bistream the audio "properly" if you leave secondary audio on.

Personally, I don't care. I also don't care if it's PSm or bitstreamed, my HD DVD player will only PCM lossles, but having the receiver display say the name is pretty cool, which I think a lot of people want. Of course this should not be an issue with the PS3 slim.

Oh, and RF is great, like my 360 controller. I wish everything was like that, with my Denon you have to be a sharpshooter.

From what I understand about the PS3 Slim, is that it can go from bitstreaming to secondary audio mixed into decoded PCM without a full HDMI handshake, which results in a less than one second blip in the audio, and no disturbance to the video.

Another issue with bitstreaming is many receivers have limitations when it comes to the lossless codecs. While they do have support for them, they can't apply their full room correction, falling back to distance and level only. This is becoming less common as manufacturers are using faster DSP chips. Another issue which shows up, is receiver limited Dolby Prologic IIx to PCM and Dolby sound tracks, where if you want 7.1 from a DTS you must use Neo:6. So by decoding DTS into PCM first the receiver never knows and can't tell you what to do.

I was listening to Bjork's Post album from the "Surrounded" box set last night. I usually use my Pioneer DVD player for music (it's easier to control with the TV off than the PS3). This player wants to bitstream by default, so playing the 5.1 DTS track of this disc had my receiver go into Neo:6. That made many of the songs with Bjork's voice centered in the surround channels end up heavily mixed on the back speakers. Those are the weakest speakers in my system. Neo:6 Music is available from a 2 channel source, but with 5.1 all I can get is a dematrixing of the surrounds. I found my receiver doesn't limit me to Neo though, it only defaults there. So I had my display showing "DTS+Prologic IIx Music", that was neat, and got me the mix which I perfered, with heavier use of the surrounds, with less emphasis on the backs. But with PCM decoding, I would have gotten the same Prologic IIx Music which I had set with the previous two-channel CD I had played.

Chris, have you had a chance to look over what they have done to the Oppo 83SE, any thoughts, besides waaayyy too much money for this upgraded spec?

There was no change to the digital side of things in the SE version of the Oppo player. All they did was beef up the DACs and a few other minor parts of the analog chain.

If you're planning to use the HDMI interface, then there's no reason to get the SE upgrade. If you're using the analog 7.1 output, it's time to get a new receiver rather than the SE upgrade.

While I believe that decoding to PCM in the player is the right thing to do, after that it should be passed digitally to the receiver so any room correction (even if it is just delay and trim, if you don't like EQing and the rest of that stuff) can be done by the receiver. The receiver drives the speakers, so it should make the output adjustments. Imaging if you had to calibrate each source component. That way madness lies.

You're making hard for me to NOT buy a PS3.

I Had a sony 300 model which i picked up on boxing day for 199 2 years ago .(good price at the time)

I bought the new ps3 and i love it , never thought i would play games but i have gt5 , formula one 2006 and Ferrari Challenge with the Logitech steering wheel but not into games that require using the controller .

The oppo on consumer reports was rated best blu ray player if that helps .

I think it comes down to what you will do with it. The PS3 has soooo many value adds for the money, if you would use them.

PS3 for streaming music and movies to your HT area without buying separate gear, picture collection viewing, Netflix access (if you are US), gaming, and I'd like to say web browsing but until they get better browser software, it's way too cludgy for surfing. Rumors they are talking to Mozilla.

If you seriously think you will never use any of those features, then a good player like the Oppo is easier to manipulate. Although with that 12 dollar USB gadget I recently bought, I am now back to one single remote for everything, including the PS3.

Also the PS3 Slim is $300 (always get the smaller drive, it's user upgradeable for less than what Sony charges), while the Oppo is $500. If you don't have DVD-Audio discs or SACDs, require the best possible SD upscaling (the PS3 is good, but the Oppo is better), and plan on using HDMI (you should); then there's not much reason to look at the Oppo.

My thoughts right now are to buy a PS3 as my BR player (hopefully have one tossed in with the TV) and in the future buy a used Oppo 981 or similar, for any SACD/DVD-A I may be interested in, this combo would still be cheaper than a new 83 from Oppo.

You might try Ebay, Craigslist, etc. for an older style 80GB version that plays SACD and DVD-A. However, personally, I am very hesitant to purchase a used game console online. In fact I don't recommend it at all but put it out there if you are brave.

I want the PS3 slim..... OK my wife mentioned she liked the look better, I know what that meant.

What is this gadget you refer too?

Thanks

It's actually only the 60 GB version which supported SACDs. The PS3 never played DVD-Audio. The 80 GB dropped SACD support, and went to a half-software solution for PS2 emulation. New 60 GB PS3s routinely go for over $900, they're that sought after. Even the used ones fetch a good price. Probably not worth it, although I do enjoy my PS3 for SACD, and DV-79AVi for DVD-A.

There are several "PS3 USB IR dongles" available (try Google). They let you use an IR remote for less than Logitech's Bluetooth IR converter. But they can not turn the system on, and perhaps have problems with off too. But other than that, they can perform the other disc playback functions.

Gotta run but 'in my friendly voice' your quote is contradictory "only the 60 played SACDs"..."80 dropped SACD support."

Not sure what you meant exactly but I can assure you that early 80GB models played SACDs as own one and I enjoy the feature along with DVD-A quiet regularly.

The PS3 is one of the best and most complete Blu-ray players around for $300. That being said it has one downfall. The fan noise! I have an 80 gig model. My living room is on the first floor and I moved it to the basement just last year, because I couldn't take the noise anymore when playing anything (DVD, Blu-ray a game, etc.) Good thing for the blue-tooth remotes and controllers. After that I couldn't take going up and down the stairs every time that I wanted to change the disc. I can't imagine the PS3 slim being quieter since it is in a smaller case. I suggest that you find a friend that has a PS3 and go over to their house and watch a couple of movies to see if you can live with the fan or not.

I wound up buying an Oppo player just this past summer (partly because of the fan issue) and I am much happier with the silence that I hear from this player. So, a stand-alone player is going to be better in this respect.

Oop, you're right. There are a few 4 USB port, 80 GB models. The majority of the 80 GB models have 2 USB ports and no SACD support.

I'll stand by my DVD-Audio support statement. While most DVD-Audio discs do have a DVD-Video section which can be played on any DVD player, only DVD-Audio players can access the lossless MLP data on the disc. So if you're playing a DVD-Audio disc in the PS3, you're getting the Dolby Digital (or on a few rare discs DTS) lossy compression.

I am hoping the fan noise won't be an issue as I will be 14' or more away from it.

My 60 GB PS3 the hottest and loudest of the bunch. Every model after that has run cooler (more energy efficient chips built from newer technologies), and quieter. That said, I have my PS3 on an open shelf right under the TV, I can't hear it from 7 feet away in most cases. Blu-ray playback is no issue at all, it takes very little of the PS3's power to decode Blu-ray video and the fan runs at the lowest speed. Actually some DVDs with very noisy pictures, can get the fan running up to an audible point when noise reduction is enabled. Games will also sometimes get the fan running so it becomes noticeable.

The other problem with fan noise on older PS3s, is they are full of dust. The fan has to run harder and more often to cool them in this case. Taking it apart, removing the dust, and also replacing the thermal compound between the CPU and heatsink, got my system running quieter than when it was new.

My guess would be the Nyko PS3 remote. Using that remote, you can teach your universal remote what IR signals to send. And the IR to BT adapter on the PS3 takes care of the signal.

I've got the 60GB version and fan noise (12' away) hasn't been an issue. But I have it sitting on 2" high blocks for better clearance/air flow and that may help.

There are several solutions for remotes now, but the field was a bit limited when I was looking 15 mos. ago. Plus, I wanted to use IR, add the commands to my MX-900 remote and have the solution include discrete On and Off.

I ended up with a product from Schmartz. A bit pricey, but the discrete On & Off is important to me and they have great support and firmware updates you can download.

Those Schmartz sounds good and more affordable than the Logitech plugin for their RF remote.

Just looking over the specs for the Schmartz. Their Bluetooth models (the ones which can turn on and off the PS3), are USB powered. Which means you need to find another source of USB power other than the PS3 if you want to turn the system on with it. But since everything has USB ports these days (you could use the receiver) it's not a big deal. The Logitech one uses an AC/DC transformer. The Logitech one also has a wired IR receiver port. This is nice if you want to tuck everything away and use an RF remote. Yeah, RF remote, to wired IR transmitter, to Bluetooth transmitter, to PS3 is a round about way to do things.

I have the slim and have had no issue with fan noise.

No fan noise?? Oh, you're a Phillies fan. You should know about lack of "fan noise" when the Bronx Bombers went yard!

Sorry, as a Yankee fan and a season ticket holder I had to take the shot. In the immortals words of Maverick:

I had the shot; there was no danger, so I took it.

Hmmm, that's certainly possible I suppose. it was indeed a surpise when I put one in and it worked and all 5.1 channels lit up on my receiver and this was for the straight audio tracks, not the video mini-documentaries.

Interesting they would actually pack Dolby song tracks along side the DVD-A tracks. I would have thought they would only do that to accompany the videos.

Still pretty happy to get 'non-live' music tracks in true surround sound for a change of pace.

On DVD-a, they usually put multi-ch hi-res (DVD-a players only), DD or DTS for all players and also frequently a stereo hi-res playable by all players.
Sony is making a point NOT to support the competing technology.

I sit about 8' from my stand that has a TV on top. The stand has two shelves with about 12" from shelf to shelf and is completely open on all sides. In the spring and winter time when I keep my house at about 60 degrees Fahrenheit the fan was annoying. In the summer time when the temp gets 75 or 80 degrees it is unbearable, which is why I would up moving the PS3 into another room.

You should look at cleaning out your PS3, and replacing the thermal compound. Especially if this is one of the much desired 60 gig models; that's something you want to keep running as long as possible. That's how mine got, the fan running audibly all the time. But now at 72° it's virtually silent. Even at the 90+° temps this past summer, it would only become slightly audible from 7' away.

My PS3 started acting up after only about 6 month or so. I guess I can try to clean it. What thermal compound are you talking about replacing though?



I have an 80 gig model.

Mine took about a year, but I didn't use it much then. There's a white, waxy stuff which goes between the CPU/GPU and the heatsink. You can get some ArctiClean, which makes removal of the old very easy (and leaves your PS3 smelling of oranges for a couple weeks). Then I used Arctic Silver 5 to replace it. You can find step-by-step instructions on how to open the PS3, and replace the thermal paste. It made a huge and immediate difference for my system. The Arctic Silver also lasts longer (it actually cures with heat) than the wax Sony used (which remelts every time the system gets hot, and eventually works its way out from between the surfaces). I did mine about 18 months ago, and it is still quite.

The 80 gig is still an older one. 2 or 4 USB ports? 4 would put it in the first or second production run, which means it uses the hottest chip they built (same as my 60).

I've got 4 USB ports, so I guess that is why my PS3 fan is going crazy. I remember when I first got the PS3 the fan never came on with Blu-ray's or games playing. It only came on when DVD's were playing for about a half hour or so. Even then the fan was whisper quiet. I actally liked when the fan came on whisper quiet like that because it covered up the slight hum that my plasma TV gives off.

Well, maybe I'll get some time to open it up and clean things up sometime soon.

- Nick

That's before they converted 2 USB ports as cooling elements...

I agree that at face value, roundabout would be a fair assessment. However, because of all of the "stuff" going on with my home theater setup, I plugged a 7 port powered DLink USB hub into the wall and have the PS3, Schmartz and PS3 controller integrated with the hub. I also plugged in a 750GB external USB drive to use to increase the capacity of my DirecTV DVR.

Thank God for monoprice and their USB cables.

Oh yes, a powered hub would work too.

As an aside, there usually is not a discount for the PS3.

Having said that, when I bought my PS3 a couple of years ago, I stumbled across a deal on the Sony site. At that time, the deal worked like this - Sign up for a Sony Visa card, instant approval, use it buy something on their site worth $299 or more, get a $100 credit on that purchase (shows up on your first bill). Plus you got free shipping.

I have seen the deal since then up to $150 for a $399 purchase,but right now its $50 credit on a $249 purchase, plus free shipping.

I took advantage of that deal when it got me $150 off of my $400 PS3, worked like a charm.

Interesting:
I would never have thought to consider changing the thermal paste in my PS3 but yet I'd never attach a CPU and its fan in a PC without it. It's so easy to forget that almost everything we own these days is just another gloried computer.

I've got a 20gig PS3 that also plays SACD, I use the Schmartz as well.
It used to be my primary BR player until I purchased the Oppo, but it has always been a solid performer and I've never had a problem with it.