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#290745 - 02/05/10 08:28 PM M80V2 and Tube Amps.........
photonblur Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 10/27/06
Posts: 23
Hello,

I know and love that the M80V2s suck mega watts of power in the
pursuit of that real sound. Occasionally I get wistful for
the vaguely remembered warmth of those old 70's tube amps.
As a qualified non-expert I thought a tube friendly speaker
would have a relatively stable, high impedance curve, not
dipping much below 3-4 ohms. Our beloved M80s do not fit this
criteria. Anyone have experience with a tube amp M80 combo?

Thanks,

PB

Top
#290748 - 02/05/10 08:32 PM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: photonblur]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17782
Loc: NoVA
They don't dip much below 4 ohms, so they might work.
_________________________
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!

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#290750 - 02/05/10 08:36 PM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: Ken.C]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8290
Loc: Tacoma
They're pretty darn efficient, too.
_________________________
bibere usque ad hilaritatem

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#290759 - 02/05/10 09:09 PM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: tomtuttle]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13337
Loc: Iowa
Why do you think the m80s would not fit this bill, have you looked at the graph?
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#290766 - 02/05/10 09:38 PM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: SirQuack]
grunt Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 3569
Loc: Nirvana

I tried my M80s with a tube amp from a local dealer who came over to demo a few years ago and they sounded great. I love the sound of detailed speakers combined with a tube amp for acoustical music or most music with a lot of ambience. A tube amp alone wouldn’t IMO cut it for movies but for the music I demoed (Bliss - Quiet letters, Rodrigo y Gabriela, Buddhabar - Chill out in Paris) it rocked. I wish I had the M22s at the time since I feel they actually do a little better in the midrange and the highs than the M80s and would even have sounded better.
_________________________
3M80 2M22 6QS8 2M2 1EP500 Sony BDP-S590 Panny-7000 Onkyo-3007 Carada-134 Xbox Buttkicker AS-EQ1

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#290775 - 02/05/10 10:15 PM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: photonblur]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10395
PB, there's no apparent good reason these days to resort to an obsolescent technology such as tube amplification. Be that as it may, the M80s certainly don't "suck mega watts of power" but in fact are slightly more sensitive than average and require less power. They also have a relatively smooth impedance curve varying between 4 and 14 ohms, with perhaps a 6ohm overall average.
_________________________
-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#290777 - 02/05/10 10:15 PM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: SirQuack]
photonblur Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 10/27/06
Posts: 23
Sir Quack,

I have a healthy respect for my lack of expertise. Hence the
inquiry as to who may have actual experience with the M80V2
tube amp combo. I was intrigued by the back and forth with
audiosavant and the respected elders of this site. Please
enlighten me. What doth the impedence graph imply?

Gracias

PB.

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#290779 - 02/05/10 10:19 PM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: JohnK]
photonblur Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 10/27/06
Posts: 23
John K.,

I get it. But some deluded simpletons like that distortion
induced warmth from tubesville. Hence the question.

Respectively,

PB.

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#290781 - 02/05/10 10:24 PM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: photonblur]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10395
A correctly designed amplifier, regardless of its output devices, exhibits no "distortion induced warmth" when operated within its designed limits.
_________________________
-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#290782 - 02/05/10 10:24 PM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: photonblur]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17782
Loc: NoVA
Do you already have M80s, PB? Couldn't hurt to try 'em out with a tube amp. Me, I'd probably head more towards a higher powered tube amp (but I know those are godawful expensive). If you keep the volume relatively low, I think you'd be ok.

Having never really heard a tube amp, I can't say whether I'd enjoy the even order distortion. More power to those of you who do! (especially when you admit it's even order distortion...)
_________________________
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!

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#290794 - 02/05/10 10:58 PM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: JohnK]
photonblur Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 10/27/06
Posts: 23
JohnK,

A correctly designed speaker is slave to the source. If that
source is a "colored" tube effect, warmth in warmth out.

Peace,

PB.

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#290796 - 02/05/10 11:05 PM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: photonblur]
Wid Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/22/03
Posts: 6720
Loc: The Peoples Republic of Il.

Have ya thought about a tube preamp with a big ss amp? I considered this some time ago but never did it.
_________________________
Rick


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud


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#290800 - 02/05/10 11:10 PM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: photonblur]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13337
Loc: Iowa
You are the one that said the M80's DON't cut the bill. Show me in these graphs from the Ti series or the V2 series where it drops below even 4 ohms, um, NOT.




_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#290801 - 02/05/10 11:11 PM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: photonblur]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10395
Of course; but the point is that there is no such effect necessarily.
_________________________
-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#290806 - 02/05/10 11:18 PM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: Ken.C]
photonblur Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 10/27/06
Posts: 23
Kcarlile,

I have had M80V2s for about 4 yrs. Two channel, amp is a
NAD C372. Upgradeitis has struck. Wanted the emotiva xpa-2
but have read conflicting reports. Intrigued by the Axiom
A1400-2, discouraged by the price. Recently read a thread
started by audiosavant on this site. Knowledgeable fellow
considering M80V2s with a ridiculously low powered tube amp.
Got me to exploring what's up with tubes. The salespitch
is a "warm" sound field with better dynamics at lower volumes
than solid state. I have fond memories of smokey evenings
35 years ago enveloped by magical Mcintosh sounds. How much
of this is embellished memories versus reality is open to
question. Never the less I'd like my next upgrade to be my
last upgrade so I'm exploring all possibilites. I am ready to make
a major purchase and everything is in play. Time to go watch
Fringe with the Mrs. Anyone else think that scotch is just
bad bourbon?

Peace,

PB

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#290810 - 02/05/10 11:31 PM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: photonblur]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13337
Loc: Iowa
PB, you do crack me up, and I hope you stay around on the forum, your very interesting and I may learn a little from you, I've never owned tube amps...

Wyred4Sound might be a company, or Odyssey Audio, if your looking for kick ass amps that don't break the retirement plan.
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

Top
#290813 - 02/05/10 11:36 PM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: SirQuack]
madjak Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 91
Loc: Victoria, Australia
I have a tube amp with my Orpheus Aurora 3s - purely for 2 channell audio and absolutely love it - particularly with the vocals or anything classical really.

I haven't hooked up my axioms (M22s) to the cayin, purely because they're in another room and I bought them for the HT room and the occasional musical theatrics.

For anyone who is seriously into classical sounds, I would suggest taking at look at the tube amps. It sure opened up my ears. It wouldn't be for everyone, admittedly.
_________________________
Now this is how you learn Philosophy :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tm0Uq08xXhY

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#290814 - 02/05/10 11:37 PM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: SirQuack]
Wid Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/22/03
Posts: 6720
Loc: The Peoples Republic of Il.
_________________________
Rick


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud


Top
#290815 - 02/05/10 11:39 PM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: Wid]
Wid Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/22/03
Posts: 6720
Loc: The Peoples Republic of Il.
_________________________
Rick


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud


Top
#290819 - 02/05/10 11:40 PM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: SirQuack]
photonblur Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 10/27/06
Posts: 23
Sir Quack,

Please. Breathe deep and rhythmically. I never meant to imply
the M80s are anything less than a great value. I actually
bought them and have been enjoying them. For whatever reason
they do seem to appeal to the "high wattage set". I recall
a recent quote from an axiom engineer that an axiom a1400-2
would permit you to enjoy the full dynamics of the M80s.
That's fine. I might buy that amp. There are other audio
camps that discuss tube friendly speakers that in my granted
limited research do not recommend Axiom type speakers. Not
many posters on the Axiom site mention using their speakers
with tube amps. The only recommendations for amps from
Axiom that I have seen are for solid state. Before I take
the plunge into a mega solid state amp, be it emotiva, axiom,
or whatever, I will listen to the tube M80 combo. I am con-
vinced that the M80s with a mega solid state amp achieve a
reference level. I'm not convinced the same is true paired
with a tube amp. I'm open to the possibility that I'm wrong.

Peace,

PB

Top
#290820 - 02/05/10 11:46 PM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: photonblur]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13337
Loc: Iowa
Peace buddy, I can't comment on Tube amps...

also consider Odyssey Audio. Klaus makes kick ass stuff based on German Symphonic Line (very expensive) products...the kismet and candela lines are tube based...

http://odysseyaudio.com/index.html
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

Top
#290821 - 02/05/10 11:48 PM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: photonblur]
photonblur Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 10/27/06
Posts: 23
Sir Quack,

Sorry I got defensive. I appreciate your knowledge. Now
I really have to go watch Fringe or risk a property settlement,
in which case my wife might get the M80s and whatever amp
I end up with.

Peace,

PB

Top
#290823 - 02/05/10 11:57 PM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: photonblur]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13337
Loc: Iowa
no defensiveness taken, I have no knowledge, \:\) Just hang on forums to much, lol. You should get a Tivo. See ya
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

Top
#290904 - 02/06/10 11:40 AM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: photonblur]
alan Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/29/02
Posts: 3188
Loc: Toronto/New York/Dwight
Hi PB,

Think I tried Fringe, but didn't stick with it. I quite like White Collar, however.

I understand the urge to experiment with tube amplifiers. I grew up building tube amps in my teens for my audiophile father, which is when I caught the hi-fi bug. ONe of the problems with many tube amplifiers is that they do not have 0 output impedance. All solid-state amps have essentially 0 ohms output impedance. With tube amplifiers, the output impedance of the tube amplifier may interact with a speaker's impedance curve, significantly changing the frequency response of the system. Tube amplifiers with output transformers have impedance taps--for 8 ohms, 4 ohms, etc.

In other words, tube amplifiers may not be "linear" with a smooth frequency response across the audible spectrum. That, combined with possible impedance interactions, may introduce audible colorations which you may or may not care for.

At Axiom, we always seek neutral, transparent frequency response from our speakers and the amplifiers, which is why we don't use tube gear. One of our former chief engineers designed tube gear for MacIntosh, as well as solid-state amps for Luxman, H/K and others.

Be careful if you try any single-ended tube amps, which typically are very low-powered--about 6 watts per channel. I just emailed an Axiom customer who was using one to power M22s in a huge room and he drove the little tube amp into distortion, destroying his tweeters and a couple of the midrange/woofers.

In one fascinating A/B comparison that I participate in, of tube vs. solid-state amps of about the same power output--35 watts per channel--the sound quality was essentially identical until they approached their output limits. The soundstage of the tube amp collapsed into almost mono and became distorted. The transistor amp remained excellent until it clipped, and sounded distorted and nasty. When not driven to their limits, the two were essentially indistinguishable. None of us in the room could reliably say which amp we were listening to until they were run past their output limits.

Regards,
Alan
_________________________
Alan Lofft,
Axiom Resident Expert

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#290987 - 02/06/10 10:34 PM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: alan]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10395
Does "former" indicate that Tom Cumberland is no longer with Axiom?
_________________________
-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#290988 - 02/06/10 10:37 PM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: JohnK]
BlueJays1 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 4079
Loc: Porch,enjoying Bombay Sapphire
Nice catch JohnK.
_________________________
I’m armed and I’m drinking. You don’t want to listen to advice from me, amigo.

-Max Payne

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#290989 - 02/06/10 10:40 PM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: BlueJays1]
Wid Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/22/03
Posts: 6720
Loc: The Peoples Republic of Il.

I caught that too.
_________________________
Rick


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud


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#291041 - 02/07/10 09:09 AM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: Wid]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13337
Loc: Iowa
I also caught that, but in a recent coversation with another Axiom employee, Tom's name was recently mentioned...did the new guy Andrew replace Tom, I hope not, nothing against Andrew..
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

Top
#291094 - 02/07/10 12:37 PM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: SirQuack]
alan Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/29/02
Posts: 3188
Loc: Toronto/New York/Dwight
Hi all,

Tom Cumberland will continue to design electronics for Axiom but on a consulting basis.

Regards,
Alan
_________________________
Alan Lofft,
Axiom Resident Expert

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#291111 - 02/07/10 01:39 PM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: alan]
Adrian Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/27/08
Posts: 6613
Loc: It's all about the location.
That's good to hear, Alan. I met Tom, nice man.
_________________________
Half of communication is listening. You can't listen with your mouth.

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#291163 - 02/07/10 03:51 PM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: Adrian]
CV Offline
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 11208
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
Yes, very nice. I got a call from him once about the A1400-8, and it was very fun hearing him talk about it. I'm glad to hear he'll still be an influence.

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#291199 - 02/07/10 06:16 PM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: CV]
chesseroo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 4829
Loc: western canada
You have the love the world of consulting.
It is like a turn style door of people, kinda like how the weather changes.
_________________________
"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."

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#291221 - 02/07/10 09:44 PM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: Adrian]
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16280
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
Heck, everyone at Axiom is nice. \:\)
_________________________
"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

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#291223 - 02/07/10 09:53 PM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: pmbuko]
CV Offline
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 11208
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
Even bbigwyrs? You just know it's an Axiom employee.

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#291233 - 02/07/10 10:45 PM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: CV]
medic8r Offline
axiomite

Registered: 02/05/06
Posts: 6397
Loc: Fredericksburg, Virginia
You know, I just had a revelation. I know what is happening now. Bbigwyres is not one person. He is everyone at Axiom. Allow me to explain.

Whenever there is an angry employee at Axiom, they make him log in as bbigwyres. It's sort of a "Time Out." The employee's anger leads to the typos, the name calling, and lack of tact. The fact that bbigwyres fancies himself a true audiopile is understandable, given the backgrounds of the Axiom staff. The employee is told to REFLECT upon what he has done to deserve this discipline, and when his post is concluded and he feels ready to rejoin his coworkers, he signifies his understanding by signing off his post with the salutation.

Things must be pretty calm up at Axiom lately, since bbigwyres has been quiet for a while. It'll be interesting to see if bbigwyres ever develops a taste for omnidirectional speakers ...
_________________________
"The Universe is the game of the self, which plays hide and seek forever and ever" - Alan Watts

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#291234 - 02/07/10 11:21 PM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: medic8r]
CV Offline
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 11208
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
\:\) Now that we have that mystery cleared up, what problem can we give you to solve?

Top
#291245 - 02/08/10 07:40 AM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: photonblur]
davidsch Offline
aficionado

Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 678
Loc: Houston, Texas
 Originally Posted By: photonblur
Hello,

I know and love that the M80V2s suck mega watts of power in the
pursuit of that real sound. Occasionally I get wistful for
the vaguely remembered warmth of those old 70's tube amps.
As a qualified non-expert I thought a tube friendly speaker
would have a relatively stable, high impedance curve, not
dipping much below 3-4 ohms. Our beloved M80s do not fit this
criteria. Anyone have experience with a tube amp M80 combo?

Thanks,

PB





While I have not tried the M80s with a tube amp, I have tried the M60s with a 50 watt/channel Jolida 302B. I borrowed the amp from brother-in-law for about 6 weeks. At first I did not notice a difference, but after a couple of days it seemed as though the midrange was smoother. After returning the amp and putting my Denon back into service, I was disappointed in the sound. Now I did not take the time to do a double blind comparison so there will be plenty of skeptics but that is OK. I say give it a try if a dealer will loan you an amp for a few days. I will likely buy a tube amp at some point, but there always seems to be something more important to spend our money on. Welcome to the forum and stick around.

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#291253 - 02/08/10 10:23 AM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: davidsch]
PeterChenoweth Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 10/23/03
Posts: 1349
Loc: Jacksonville, IL
PB,

As you've already witnessed, you're going to encounter some resistance around here when the subject of tube amplification is brought up. Actually the whole subject of amplification affects on sound quality is a bit touchy. One of the core tenants of Axiom speakers is their engineered neutrality and balance. When you slap a tube amp on them (and invariably comment that it 'warms' up the sound), some view it as "messing with perfection".

Personally, I think you should have fun and do what you want with the speakers. Tinkering and experimentation is part of the fun of this hobby, and it need not be approached with the clinical hues of "right" vs. "wrong" that some seem to favor.

I've never heard Axiom speakers when powered by a tube amp. However, my office set up consists of Sennheiser HD650's and a Little Dot MKII tubed headphone amp. I love the setup. Almost as much as my home Axiom system. I chose the LDmkII amp over several IC-based amps, as I listen to a lot of classical and jazz and the tubes impart a delicious warmth and intimacy to the sound. I have often thought of taking the LDmkII home and using it's pre-out functionality with my M80's to see what it sounds like, but I've never done it. Perhaps I should.
_________________________
M80v2 | VP150v2 | QS8v2
SVS Pci+ 20-39
Emotiva UMC-1 & LPA-1
M22ti + T-Amp, in the Office

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#291258 - 02/08/10 10:51 AM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: PeterChenoweth]
jakeman Offline
aficionado

Registered: 10/03/05
Posts: 852
Loc: Toronto
Good post Peter. I've been lurking since this thread started. Amps are a favourite pastime and I continue to own several solid state and tube amps, much to my wife's chagrin. \:D

The M80s sound terrific with any good capable tube amp. I'm not sure where this notion came that you can only play them with solid state or that somehow tube amps are obsolete. For dedicated stereo usage tube gear really does offer some advantages. But like all audio gear not all tube amps are created equal. I've always liked McIntosh amps and having heard the M80s using an MC2102, MC275 and a pair of old MC30s. All those tube amps add an air of realism to vocals and strings which are hard to reproduce with solid state amps.

The c30s I have to admit are less pleasant sounding since at 30watts they have a tough time powering the woofers, the net result being sluggish sounding bass at louder volumes. On the other hand both the 75wps MC275 and 135wps MC2102 really sound wonderful with that liquid midrange Mac tube gear is noted for.

I've also heard them with Bryston 4Bssts and the 1400-2. Fact is they sound good with most amps as long as they are played without clipping the amp, and perhaps more importantly properly positioned in the room.
_________________________
John

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#291270 - 02/08/10 12:41 PM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: davidsch]
alan Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/29/02
Posts: 3188
Loc: Toronto/New York/Dwight
Hi davidsch,

Interesting that you mention Jolida, because that brand is one of the few tube amps that I've recommended to Axiom purchasers who want to experiment with tube amplification. The Jolidas are a good choice because they have significant output power (35 watts or more per channel) and also because I've heard them with several different brands of neutral, reasonably linear speakers and found the sound quality very good.

I can't attest to Jakeman's claim of a "liquid midrange" attributed to McIntosh tube amplifiers. In the only double-blind test I've participated in of various solid-state amplifiers, which also included a big McIntosh tube amplifier, no one on the listening panel heard any significant differences between the solid-state amps and the McIntosh tube amplifier.

I'd point out that all the amplifiers in the tests were never run into clipping or distortion and they were bench-tested beforehand to ensure that their frequency responses were smooth and linear and that there were no distortion quirks or other anomalies.

Those on the listening panel included myself, Ian G. Masters, Dr. Floyd Toole and others. There were various different amplifier topologies represented, including a huge all Class A amplifier that ran so hot we all joked that we could cook breakfast on it.

In the end, we were disappointed that no differences emerged (the tests were at the National Research Council in Ottawa) and were very closely controlled with rigid double-blind protocol.

Regards,
Alan
_________________________
Alan Lofft,
Axiom Resident Expert

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#291271 - 02/08/10 12:50 PM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: alan]
ClubNeon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/06/09
Posts: 3448
Loc: Western Maryland, USA
That once again backs up the statement: In well designed amps, the similarities between tube and solid state or class A, AB, and D are far greater than the differences.


I want someone to build a class D, tube amp just for fun. You'd just need a high frequency triangle wave generator, a comparator, power valves which could handle the switching frequency, and then some capacitors to act as rectification filters to remove the switching component of the signal. Although, I fear the frequencies required are beyond what tubes can handle.
_________________________
Pioneer VSX-1018AH-K, PDP-5020FD, DV-79AVi
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Sony PS3, surround backs
-Chris

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#291280 - 02/08/10 01:51 PM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: ClubNeon]
2x6spds Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/16/02
Posts: 2726
Loc: CA, USA
Club Neon, I think you'd have to worry about X Rays from a Class D switching tube amp.

Alan, you don't use a hearing aid do you? That might explain why you have never experienced the liquid midrange beauty of good tube amplification. I commend you for not referring to tube amplifiers as "distortion generators" as you have previously.
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Enjoy the Music. Trust your ears. Laugh at Folks Who Claim to Know it All.

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#291285 - 02/08/10 02:04 PM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: 2x6spds]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17782
Loc: NoVA
No, it's not true! It's impossible! </whiney Luke Skywalker>
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#291327 - 02/08/10 05:11 PM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: CV]
medic8r Offline
axiomite

Registered: 02/05/06
Posts: 6397
Loc: Fredericksburg, Virginia
 Originally Posted By: CV
:) Now that we have that mystery cleared up, what problem can we give you to solve?

I'm gonna get Congress to put this bitter partisan rancor aside and start working together for the betterment of the American people.


_________________________
"The Universe is the game of the self, which plays hide and seek forever and ever" - Alan Watts

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#291331 - 02/08/10 05:21 PM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: medic8r]
Adrian Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/27/08
Posts: 6613
Loc: It's all about the location.
Your alter-ego gonna threaten them JP??
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#291344 - 02/08/10 09:33 PM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: davidsch]
2x6spds Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/16/02
Posts: 2726
Loc: CA, USA
Hello Davidsch

Your post has been kicking around in my subconscious, so I figured I'd post to make it stop.

But, I digress ...

What got me thinking was your observation that the difference between the music from the Jolida and from the Denon was subtle, not immediately apparent, but rather a quality which sort of snuck up on you. I agree, although I think the difference is more noticeable with female vocals, classical music from strings or blowing air through a tube of some kind ...

I think the effect calls into question A/B testing. I say this because I think some effects are subtle and take time to evaluate.

BTW, if you need some tube power from an award winning amplifier, you might consider the Antique Sound Labs Hurricanes.



TECHNICAL SPECIFICATIONS
Output power:

Output impedance:
Input impedance:
Input sensitivity:
Frequency response:
Frequency response:
THD:
THD:
S/N:
Nominal Voltage gain:
Global NFB in dB:
Dimensions:
Shipping dimensions:
Net weight:
Shipping weight:
200 Watts (pentode/tetrode mode).
100 Watts (triode mode)
4, 8, 16 Ohms.
100kHz.
600mV
12 Hz – 41kHz. (At 1.0 Watt)
18Hz – 30kHz. (At full power)
0.3% (at 1 Watt)
5% at full power
88 dB (at full power)
50.46dB
(0)
350mm., 13 ¼” W X 350mm.,13 ¼” D X 325mm., 12 ½” H
470mm.,18 ½” W X 470mm.,18 ½” D X 450mm.,17 ½” H
38 kg., 84lbs.






 Originally Posted By: davidsch
 Originally Posted By: photonblur
Hello,

I know and love that the M80V2s suck mega watts of power in the
pursuit of that real sound. Occasionally I get wistful for
the vaguely remembered warmth of those old 70's tube amps.
As a qualified non-expert I thought a tube friendly speaker
would have a relatively stable, high impedance curve, not
dipping much below 3-4 ohms. Our beloved M80s do not fit this
criteria. Anyone have experience with a tube amp M80 combo?

Thanks,

PB





While I have not tried the M80s with a tube amp, I have tried the M60s with a 50 watt/channel Jolida 302B. I borrowed the amp from brother-in-law for about 6 weeks. At first I did not notice a difference, but after a couple of days it seemed as though the midrange was smoother. After returning the amp and putting my Denon back into service, I was disappointed in the sound. Now I did not take the time to do a double blind comparison so there will be plenty of skeptics but that is OK. I say give it a try if a dealer will loan you an amp for a few days. I will likely buy a tube amp at some point, but there always seems to be something more important to spend our money on. Welcome to the forum and stick around.

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Enjoy the Music. Trust your ears. Laugh at Folks Who Claim to Know it All.

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#291345 - 02/08/10 09:37 PM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: 2x6spds]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10395
P, an insulting comment of that sort isn't helpful to the discussion. Tightly controlled double blind listening tests of the sort Alan described(with certainly eminent participants)have indicated that there is no necessary "tube sound" if the unit is correctly designed and operated within its designed limits. The frequency and/or distortion aberrations that would create a "warmth"("liquid" or dry)don't exist in units with high fidelity, regardless of the output device topology.
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#291350 - 02/08/10 10:19 PM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: JohnK]
BlueJays1 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 4079
Loc: Porch,enjoying Bombay Sapphire
My biggest concern with using a tube amp with the M80's would be the issue of clipping.

From what I understand of the M80's design and their power handling capabilities, to get the most out of them especially in large rooms is to power them with a robust solid state amplifier.

Now as I type this I am listening to headphones powered by a tube amplifier. The sound is quite nice actually. However, I cannot attribute a "warmth" to the music in comparison to any other source/amp I have used with the multiple headphones I have. On the other hand it is very soothing listening to music in complete darkness and watching the tubes glow.

For the majority of tube amps on the market IMO they would be better paired with the Axiom bookshelf speakers (M2, M3, M22) in a small to medium sized room.
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-Max Payne

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#291355 - 02/08/10 11:06 PM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: BlueJays1]
Lampshade Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 11/08/05
Posts: 1163
Loc: Holbrook, MA
I have two tube amps. A little one and a big one. I have a Denon AVR. The only reason I have never given the Denon away is that sometimes I like to hook it up and listen so I can remember why it is I don't use it.
It is a low end Denon to be fair.
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M3 and Manley Stingray
M80 and Pioneer SC 55

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#291356 - 02/08/10 11:11 PM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: BlueJays1]
jakeman Offline
aficionado

Registered: 10/03/05
Posts: 852
Loc: Toronto
Sure alot of absolute principles being tossed around in this thread. \:\)

Maybe we should take a closer look at the specs of the M80 again before talking about power requirements whether tube or SS. At 95db/91db/w/m the M80s are reasonably sensitive speakers that don't require much power to play at orchestra level volumes assuming normal listening room distances from the speakers. A 75 watt tube amp would not be stressed driving the M80s except at earsplitting peaks north of 105 db or very loud transients where the soft clipping of the tubes would be much more pleasant than the square wave distortions from SS clipping.

Whether one prefers the sound of tubes or SS is a matter of personal preference. Personally I've enjoyed the sound of the M80s with tubes as much as SS but that's just me. I wouldn't recommend using less than a 75 watt tube amp with the M80s but that would depend on your listening habits and room requirements.
_________________________
John

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#291358 - 02/08/10 11:11 PM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: Lampshade]
Lampshade Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 11/08/05
Posts: 1163
Loc: Holbrook, MA
I agree with 2x6 completely and would add that the biggest difference I hear when switching back and forth is usually in percussion instruments.
_________________________
M3 and Manley Stingray
M80 and Pioneer SC 55

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#291360 - 02/08/10 11:18 PM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: jakeman]
RickF Offline
axiomite

Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 5210
Loc: Vero Beach, Florida
John, that McIntosh MC275 tube amp is really nice.
_________________________
Rick
Our Room

smile

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#291366 - 02/08/10 11:48 PM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: RickF]
jakeman Offline
aficionado

Registered: 10/03/05
Posts: 852
Loc: Toronto
Hey Rick, the McIntosh MC275 is one of the all time great classic amps judging by the length of time its been in production. Its a great amp to use with the M80s especially when listening to strings or female vocals. I prefer it with Classical music or jazz. Its bass reproduction is pretty good for a tube amp because of its high input impedance but still not as good as most SS amps.

The big downside of tube gear is maintenance. Failing or noisey tubes can be a PITA. I've found that Telefunken tubes sound best in the Macs and are more reliable.
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John

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#291367 - 02/08/10 11:56 PM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: jakeman]
RickF Offline
axiomite

Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 5210
Loc: Vero Beach, Florida
John I listened to that amp along with some McIntosh speakers and I have never heard BB King sound so good, the $7,500 price tag for the system was *the* only thing holding me back.
_________________________
Rick
Our Room

smile

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#291368 - 02/09/10 12:11 AM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: RickF]
jakeman Offline
aficionado

Registered: 10/03/05
Posts: 852
Loc: Toronto
The MC275 is built like a tank that lasts forever. New ones are too pricey. I've seen used MC275s change hands for around $2500 on audiogon. A similar sounding tube amp is the more powerful MC2102 which uses much of the same design as the MC275 and comes with those great blue metres.

The Mac speakers are OK but way overpriced IMO. For price/performance the Axioms are much better performers. I'd bet dollars to donuts BB King plays Lucille better with the MC275 driving the M80s.
_________________________
John

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#291369 - 02/09/10 12:16 AM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: jakeman]
RickF Offline
axiomite

Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 5210
Loc: Vero Beach, Florida
Oh I would imagine that would be a nice combination indeedy, I think I saw a used MC275 for $3,600 a while back, what do they run brand new?
_________________________
Rick
Our Room

smile

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#291370 - 02/09/10 12:23 AM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: RickF]
jakeman Offline
aficionado

Registered: 10/03/05
Posts: 852
Loc: Toronto
Around $4500 new and half that used. There are a few available asking $2350 on audiogon.
_________________________
John

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#291373 - 02/09/10 01:00 AM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: jakeman]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8290
Loc: Tacoma
"Telefunken" is still one of the greatest words ever.

The M80's are already pre-wired for biamping, right?

Couldn't a person drive the woofers with a SS amp and the rest of the network with a pretty modestly-powered tube amp and get what they're after?
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#291375 - 02/09/10 01:30 AM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: tomtuttle]
grunt Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 3569
Loc: Nirvana
 Originally Posted By: tomtuttle

Couldn't a person drive the woofers with a SS amp and the rest of the network with a pretty modestly-powered tube amp and get what they're after?

That would be an interesting thing to try.
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#291378 - 02/09/10 02:36 AM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: tomtuttle]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10395
Tom, if you're thinking that the bass frequencies necessarily use the most power, that isn't the case; frequency isn't a factor in power requirements. It's simply a question of sound level, and although a bass passage may often be the loudest, this isn't necessarily the case and recordings differ in the distribution of maximum sound levels between frequency ranges. For a simple example, consider that a big double bass playing its lowest 41Hz note at a 70dB loudness level requires a tenth of the power to reproduce it that a little violin playing a 410Hz note at 80dB would need.
_________________________
-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#291384 - 02/09/10 07:37 AM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: jakeman]
davidsch Offline
aficionado

Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 678
Loc: Houston, Texas
 Originally Posted By: jakeman
Hey Rick, the McIntosh MC275 is one of the all time great classic amps judging by the length of time its been in production. Its a great amp to use with the M80s especially when listening to strings or female vocals. I prefer it with Classical music or jazz. Its bass reproduction is pretty good for a tube amp because of its high input impedance but still not as good as most SS amps.

The big downside of tube gear is maintenance. Failing or noisey tubes can be a PITA. I've found that Telefunken tubes sound best in the Macs and are more reliable.


John, have you ever listened to a Cary SLI-80 or a Manley Stingray? Those would probably be my leading candidates in the used market based on what I have read and my price point. And to the original poster, I hope that you got what you were after in this thread.

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#291386 - 02/09/10 07:48 AM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: tomtuttle]
jakeman Offline
aficionado

Registered: 10/03/05
Posts: 852
Loc: Toronto
Hey Tom, its a logical extension of this discussion of tube and SS amps. Like alot of stuff in audio you are going to get supporters and detractors about it. The idea has some merit since tubes on top and SS on the bottem supposedly plays to the relative strength of each topology. I can only share my own experience in that regard and YMMV. I didn't try bi-amping tubes and SS on an M80 but I suspect the issues involved would be much the same.

Firstly I used a 1400-2 to drive some 10" woofers and a McIntosh MC2102 to drive the other drivers. That sounded crappy for several reasons: the gain of the 2 amps was quite different so it threw off the speakers amplitude response, and the phase of the amps wasn't the same so I sensed timing was off or a lack of coherency as they say. Moreover both amps were still powering the speaker through its internal crossover network which had been optimized for a single amp and was likely causing further anomolies.

So I picked up an external crossover, first a DBX 223XL and then a Bryston 10B. I could adjust the crossover point and slope, gain, and with the 10B, phase. I spent several months tweaking to get the amps to mesh smoothly and while the 10B in particular really helped the speaker never really sounded coherent. I didn't feel like opening up and taking out the speakers internal crossover which some folks suggested so I abandoned that experiment instead after several months. So when people talk of biamping now I gently suggest using one amp or identical amps.

I'm sure alot depends on the speaker, amps and the room acoustics but there is too much hit and miss involved. Even if you get the gain right, its almost impossible to align phase across the band where the two amps overlap because of their different characteristics. After all what's being attempted in a way messes up the crossover network which was carefully designed for the particular speaker.

Recently a friend of mine has been trying to bi-amp a Martin Logan Summit (electrostat and cone drivers are already tough to time align ) with tubes and SS and to my ears it does not sound nearly as good as with one amp either, but he likes the sound and that's what counts. Besides much of the fun in audio comes from trying to get the best sound from our gear.
_________________________
John

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#291388 - 02/09/10 08:11 AM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: davidsch]
jakeman Offline
aficionado

Registered: 10/03/05
Posts: 852
Loc: Toronto
David, I've heard the Cary with some Tannoys , I forget which ones, and they sounded very pleasant. That amp switches between 80w Class a/b and 40 watts Class A. I preferred the sound of the Class A mode but that was at moderate volumes. Its a nice sounding amp no doubt about it.

The only Manleys I've heard are the Manley NeoClassic 250 monoblocs which are much more expensive and that much more capable than the Cary SLI-80. They were driving a pair of Sonus Fabers which aren't my favourite speaker either but still made them sound very nice with all types of music. A problem with good tube amps is the price sky rockets much more than SS, the more powerful the amp.


_________________________
John

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#291389 - 02/09/10 08:16 AM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: jakeman]
davidsch Offline
aficionado

Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 678
Loc: Houston, Texas
Thanks for your input John.

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#291391 - 02/09/10 08:23 AM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: davidsch]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13337
Loc: Iowa
Glad to see ya back John. \:\)
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M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#291402 - 02/09/10 10:44 AM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: SirQuack]
jakeman Offline
aficionado

Registered: 10/03/05
Posts: 852
Loc: Toronto
Hi Randy, Hope you are well. \:\)
_________________________
John

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#291408 - 02/09/10 11:40 AM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: jakeman]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8290
Loc: Tacoma
John and JohnK, thank you sincerely for your ongoing willingness to educate.

John, I do enjoy reading about your experiences. Thanks for taking the time.
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#291422 - 02/09/10 12:40 PM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: tomtuttle]
grunt Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 3569
Loc: Nirvana
Thanks for the write-up on your experiment John (jakeman). Interesting and potentially time saving read.

Cheers,
Dean
_________________________
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#291544 - 02/09/10 07:35 PM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: jakeman]
oldskoolboarder Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/25/03
Posts: 2181
Loc: Menlo Park, CA
I for one would love to hear the M80's w/ a tube amp, granted, that amp would have to have a bit of power.

I've used my M22's with a Sophia Baby and some ASL AV25 monoblocks, and the power improvement is noticeable. It's definitely a different sound vs my Pio 45TX. For me, it's a positive difference. I now use Von Schwiekert VR1's w/ the ASLs.

Slightly OT, but I've jury rigged the Sophia to work w/ headphones and it sounds quite good w/ my Grados. Enough that I've decided to keep this as my bedside tube amp.

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#291552 - 02/09/10 09:23 PM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: oldskoolboarder]
BlueJays1 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 4079
Loc: Porch,enjoying Bombay Sapphire
On the topic of vacuum tubes...

So last week I noticed a channel imbalance, where the right channel was barely audible. I immediately thought faulty tube. So I removed the tube that was causing the problem, re-inserted it and everything has been fine since.

This leads to the question on proper maintenance? I am sure the pins/sockets need cleaning. What is the correct product to use and how often should this be done?
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-Max Payne

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#291567 - 02/09/10 11:29 PM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: BlueJays1]
jakeman Offline
aficionado

Registered: 10/03/05
Posts: 852
Loc: Toronto
Some like to use a cleaning liquid like De-oxit put I prefer to rub the terminals carefully with fine garnet sandpaper.
_________________________
John

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#291601 - 02/10/10 07:10 AM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: jakeman]
MarkSJohnson Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10904
Loc: Central NH
::cue porn music::
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#291625 - 02/10/10 10:02 AM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: MarkSJohnson]
medic8r Offline
axiomite

Registered: 02/05/06
Posts: 6397
Loc: Fredericksburg, Virginia
Hey, all that hard work must take a toll on your muscles. Looks like you could use a massage...
_________________________
"The Universe is the game of the self, which plays hide and seek forever and ever" - Alan Watts

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#291688 - 02/10/10 07:54 PM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: medic8r]
St_PatGuy Offline
axiomite

Registered: 03/07/05
Posts: 7405
Loc: Glendale, Arizona
Don't tell me the pizza guy shows up in the middle of everything too. . . .
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#291711 - 02/10/10 11:07 PM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: St_PatGuy]
Adrian Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/27/08
Posts: 6613
Loc: It's all about the location.
"You order the double salami ma'am?"
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Half of communication is listening. You can't listen with your mouth.

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#292084 - 02/12/10 11:16 PM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: photonblur]
photonblur Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 10/27/06
Posts: 23
Hello,

Appreciate all the views. It became obvious this week that my
bosses priorities and mine are quite different. Spent hrs. each
day at work dredging the net for stereo reviews, stereo forums,
etc. I'm probably deluding myself but I want my next upgrade to
be my last. With my advancing age it becomes more and more
probable. My fond foggy memories of tubes came from the days
when vinal and big tube amps were king. I much prefer thesimpli-
city of CDs and the durability of solid state. Today I purchased
the wyred 4 sound w4s-sti1000. A big integrated amp with 1140
watts per channel at 4 ohms stable down to 2 ohms. I forsee a
nice synergy with my M80s. I was shopping for a big solo amp
to mate with a jolida tube preamp. But after reading the 6
moons review the additional $500 for the same amp in an integra-
ted seemed logical. This integrated has a pass through so the
Jolida is still on my radar. I want an either or for tubes or
solid state preamp so I'm also considering a digital to analog
converter, DAC. I'm just learning about these. Without a lot
of confidence I think the solid state DAC hope is an on demand
tube warmth and liquidity. Tube sound without the headaches.
Why ice? I like the fact the technology has been around long
enough to benefit from the audiophile critique refinement loop.
The cool temperature, small size, and energy efficiency are
nice but in no way trump my ears. If I'm not blown away this
baby goes back. Stiff restock fee be damned.

ice ice baby,

PB

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#292086 - 02/12/10 11:26 PM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: photonblur]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17782
Loc: NoVA
Sweet. Let us know how it sounds!
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I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!

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#292088 - 02/12/10 11:30 PM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: Ken.C]
Wid Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/22/03
Posts: 6720
Loc: The Peoples Republic of Il.

That looks like it can get the job done, nice amp.
_________________________
Rick


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud


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#292091 - 02/13/10 01:35 AM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: Wid]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13337
Loc: Iowa
PB, I am very anxious to hear your thoughts on the W4S amp. I've been studying up on them as well as a possible addition some day.
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M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
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#295160 - 03/04/10 11:46 PM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: SirQuack]
photonblur Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 10/27/06
Posts: 23
Sir Quack,

I've had the wyred 4 sound sti1000 for over 2 wks. Wow. M80s
deserve 1140 watts per channel. I had to buy a radio shack
decibel meter. Too much clean power enticing me into the 90db +
range. If I had bionic ears that would be way cool. At lower
volumes where my NAD372 produced sonic mush the sti1000 delivers
tight, dynamic, involving music. And oh yeah, talk about bass.
I always wanted more bottom from my 80s. Well it's there. Just
took a few more watts. There really is a burn in period. W4S
says 300 hrs. with the big improvement in the first 100 hrs.
I doubt I have more than 50-60 listening hrs. Difference is big.
Way smoother treble, way tighter engaging louder bass. This could
be partly psyco-acoustic. Even though I wasn't satisfied with
the NAD I was use to it. The first week with the sti1000 my ears
were looking for the NAD sound. Now it's good riddens NAD.
The old cliche of rediscovering your cds is true in my case.
Detail, dynamics, bass, shimmering cymbals etc. etc. etc.

PB

PB-

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#295168 - 03/05/10 01:56 AM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: photonblur]
audiosavant Offline
devotee

Registered: 12/13/09
Posts: 311
Loc: Worldwide
Great. Now you just put that on my "possibilities" list.

I better save up a bit more cash...


Edited by audiosavant (03/05/10 01:56 AM)
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#295403 - 03/07/10 11:57 AM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: audiosavant]
photonblur Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 10/27/06
Posts: 23
Hello Terry,

This might be duplicate e-mail. So far my ears are happy. W4S claims "tube like sound." A nagging thought of what this amp would
sound like with a tube preamp keeps intruding. If my wife doesn't
see the credit card statement I might have to indulge this whimsy.

Peace,

PB-

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#295460 - 03/07/10 08:37 PM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: photonblur]
audiosavant Offline
devotee

Registered: 12/13/09
Posts: 311
Loc: Worldwide
The ICE amps are of great interest to this fella!

An M80 mated with that beast should do the trick quite nicely.

Very, very interested in this "new" technology.

Tube-like sound without all the hassle of tubes.

Love the energy efficiency also. Go green and pump out power. Win win.

I'm considering the 500 watt myself.

Too many cool things on my to-get-list dag nabbit!

Check out the Virtue Audio stuff for the bargain versions kids!
_________________________
"Art is making something out of nothing and selling it."
---Frank Zappa


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#300431 - 04/05/10 01:01 PM update............ [Re: photonblur]
photonblur Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 10/27/06
Posts: 23
I added a SVS-PC12NSD, 350 watt to the system. Yeah there was
more bass, but kinda boomy, and not all that integrated into
the overall sound. I recently exchanged the sub for a SVS-PC-
Ultra, a 500 watt sub with the extra features of an eq and
sub-sonic filter. Prior to it arriving I gave serious consid-
eration to admitting I had a problem and enrolling in a 13
step rehab program for impulsive chronic upgraditis. When I
plugged in the new new sub this Saturday, OMG, my system sounded
terrific. The bass blended perfectly. The overall dynamics
were finally over the hurdle. My hurdle has always been that
my ear picks up the systems inefficiencies. Not enough, or tight
enough, or blended enough bass. Not enough on the high end to
give cymbals the shimmer of live music. Not enough detail etc.
etc. Finally, the combo of the W4S-STI-1000, M80V2s, and
the SVS Ultra, gave my critical mind a rest. End result, the
emotional connection of getting into the music. I was ready to
pull the trigger on some pricey Salk Speakers, HT2-TL, or HT3,
if I didn't clear the hurdle. Not now, with the right electronics
the M80V2s can deliver a great 2.1 channel experience.

Peace,

PB





Edited by photonblur (04/05/10 01:03 PM)
Edit Reason: spell

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#300494 - 04/05/10 09:34 PM Re: update............ [Re: photonblur]
St_PatGuy Offline
axiomite

Registered: 03/07/05
Posts: 7405
Loc: Glendale, Arizona
Glad you got your system just right, photonblur.

Now, sit back and ENJOY it! \:D
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