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Re: Maybe Al Gore is onto something...
Ya_basta #292548 02/16/10 05:22 PM
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 Quote:
but I think it's required considering the people he's confronting in the documentaries are generally close minded.

Yes, I totally agree with you… Dawkins interview with Wendy Wright comes to mind, it is awfully frustrating arguing with some of the extreme religious fundamentalist, I almost started pulling my hair out watching that interview.
But my point is, if RD wants to spread the message of reason and logic, alienating the people the message has to go to, is not a good strategy, IMHO.


The sailor does not pray for wind, he learns to sail. --Lindborg
Re: Maybe Al Gore is onto something...
Ya_basta #292557 02/16/10 06:01 PM
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 Originally Posted By: wheelz999
Dean, I'm very involved in sociopolitical and environmental et al. issues. Have you seen any of the following documentaries?-

Life at the end of Empire
Winter soldier
The Illuminati
Or anything by Richard Dawkins?

Those come to mind, but there are many more I could cite.


High Cam, no I haven’t seen any of those more recent documentaries because I haven’t been watching much TV for years. Though the “Life at the end of Empire” looks interesting enough to me I might see if Netflix has it or is someone is streaming it.

Never saw “Winter Soldier” either. I’m not very interested in reading about “War Crimes” I feel the biggest crime in war (armed combat) is the war itself. Especially when it’s more a war of opportunity then necessity. I see the second biggest crime as entering a war without the fortitude to do whatever it takes to gain the desired outcome. Rules about who can/can’t be killed when were and how are just absurd. That doesn’t mean you don’t self regulate to achieve a specific limited outcome however.

I have read “The Selfish Gene” and “The Extended Phenotype,” interesting stuff. I’ve also read a lot about the concept of the “Meme,“ transmission of knowledge, and what exactly are “facts” when taking graduate courses about the sociology of science and technology. I love when people talk about scientific “facts” when I’ve read a stack of papers in which various scientists can’t come to any agreement on what a “fact” actually is.

Cheers,
Dean



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Re: Maybe Al Gore is onto something...
grunt #292566 02/16/10 07:06 PM
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I believe that the majority if not all of the problems in the world today have to do with the disconnection. If people believe that their food comes from the supermarket, and their water from the tap, then they will defend to the death that system or those mediums because your life depends on it. But if people believe that their water comes from a stream, and their food from a land based product or say hydroponics, then people would do the same, and the world would be much better off.

I remember somebody posting about cattle being one of, if not the largest contributing factor to global warming because of the methane gas they produce, which is true, but this doesn't take the onus off human beings. We are the ones that started the agricultural revolution, and I would venture to bet that there wouldn't have ever been anywhere close to as many cattle in North America if we didn't have anything to do with cattlespace in the first place. Industrialized farming, or "totalitarian agriculture" is the causation, and we are responsible.

As for science, the only problem that I have with it is that before it existed, humans understood the universe, how to relate to the universe. Now science comes in and tells us how to run the universe, which sometimes throws things off base.

Also, there are great clips on YouTube from "Winter Soldier" conferences/testimony via Iraq and Afghanistan veterans against the war. The "Winter Soldier" movie I was referring to are accounts and testimony from the Vietnam War. The title is a famous line from the great man Thomas Paine, but without googling it, I can't remember exactly how it goes. I really urge those who might have a slight interest in this media, to check out the new "Winter Soldier" testimony available on YouTube; very moving and gripping stuff.

Last edited by wheelz999; 02/16/10 07:15 PM.

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Re: Maybe Al Gore is onto something...
Ya_basta #292571 02/16/10 08:06 PM
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I agree with you about the disconnection from our environment, communities, jobs, families. Humans did not IMO evolve to live in large societies but rather small groups. The speed with which we have collectivized has far outpaced our ability to biologically adapt so we are all essentially a bunch of hunter gathers cooped up in a cadge of modern society with many of the issues we face stemming from our disconnection with our basic “nature.”

Science does disconnect us from our world because of it’s inherently deconstructionist nature. Something we spent a lot of time studying in sociology of science seminars was how science is just one of many ways of viewing the world. One which has yet to clearly show us what to do with all the information it provides. Despite this science has become the new religion for many people in part because of the rift that developed with the Catholic Church. Since this rift was really about power (there clergy’s fear of loosing it) science became the defacto opposition party. So now people are seeking and gaining power under the guise of science simply by using it as new form of organized religion sans a named deity.


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Re: Maybe Al Gore is onto something...
Ya_basta #292573 02/16/10 08:22 PM
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Cam, the cattle/methane relationship is meant to keep things in perspective as there are thousands in the 'movement' who would shut down entire industries believing that it will cure global warming, if in fact it is real. For eg, the oilsands out west produce approx 4% of Canada's greenhouse gases where there are reports that agriculture creates in the neighbourhood of 20% of our greenhouse gases. It would be a shame to put millions of peoples livelihoods at stake in various industries thinking we'll save the planet when in fact, we've not addressed or correctly identified the problem which could likely be a natural phenomena, and that does not mean that I don't think we need to be prudent in the way we treat the environment.


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Re: Maybe Al Gore is onto something...
grunt #292574 02/16/10 08:23 PM
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I read a couple book recently that are very relevant to where this discussion is heading.The first is is fairly old but quite concise and a quick read. Author is E.F. Schumaker and the book is called A Guide for the Perplexed. It discusses science and religion and puts forward the strong thesis that human existence is more than Science alone can explain and enlighten.

The second book is by Joseph Campbell -- of comparative mythology fame. It's called Pathways to Bliss. It discusses the mature of modern life as being "pathless" and how it's important to find a kind of personal mythology to inform your life.

Neither of these would fall into the self-help category, by the way. ;\)

Re: Maybe Al Gore is onto something...
grunt #292575 02/16/10 08:23 PM
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 Originally Posted By: grunt
we are all essentially a bunch of hunter gathers cooped up in a cadge of modern society with many of the issues we face stemming from our disconnection with our basic “nature.”

Does this mean us married guys are finally allowed to have girlfriends?


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Re: Maybe Al Gore is onto something...
MarkSJohnson #292579 02/16/10 08:48 PM
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Yeah, and I saw Joyce on eHarmony the other day, no, wait, I mean a patient of mine was accidentally on eHarmony, and he may or may not have ... oh, crap. \:\(


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Re: Maybe Al Gore is onto something...
grunt #292580 02/16/10 08:54 PM
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 Quote:
So now people are seeking and gaining power under the guise of science simply by using it as new form of organized religion sans a named deity.


I see your point but I get a bit uneasy when someone start equating science and religion. There’s no faith in science.


The sailor does not pray for wind, he learns to sail. --Lindborg
Re: Maybe Al Gore is onto something...
medic8r #292581 02/16/10 08:57 PM
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I have a coworker that married someone he met on eHarmony. They have been married for more than 4 years now. I guess those commercials are really true. :-)


The sailor does not pray for wind, he learns to sail. --Lindborg
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