Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Technical Questions M80 placement question..

I was just wondering if you have to place the M80's up against a wall to get the best performance. I've been thinking about getting them but I have my TV mounted to my fireplace and the M80's would set next to the fireplace setting back into existing recesses. If I placed them recessed so they were flush with the fireplace, would this effect the sound too much?

Will they work, yes, is it ideal, not really. You may have to expand on your "recesses". You don't want to put them into some enclosure or bump in area. The bass ports on the back filter low frequencies into the room, restricting this restricts the performance. Most of us probably have about 5-12"+ of space between them and the wall.

If you plan on putting them in recesses you might want to consider these:

http://www.axiomaudio.com/m80-in-cabinet.html

I’m not sure if they work like a normal floor-standing speaker or are suppose to go into a wall based on the way they look. Your best bet is to call Axiom and describe what you are planning and they will be able to best advise you of how to do it.

Generally unless a speaker has been designed to be placed near or in a wall you will get better sound quality by placing it (the drivers especially) out from any nearby surfaces. The close a speaker’s drivers’ are to nearby surfaces (wall, TV screens) the more likely you will get reflections mixing in with the direct sound from the drivers and reinforcing or canceling certain frequencies and “muddying” the soundstage. My guess is the speakers above are designed to help minimize this.

One advantage to placing a speaker closer to a wall, more so a corner it increased bass output, something I don’t find my M80s need.

Cheers,
Dean

You have to be careful with putting it too close, you can get some nasty mid-bass humps and cancellations if the speaker isn't designed to be put against the wall.

Whenever I built our room one consideration for the rear surrounds was placing a pair of M60s in two recessed areas of the back wall and I asked Alan if there would have been any negative SQ drawbacks by doing so, he told me as long as there were a few clean inches to the back, top and sides there wouldn't be any problems at all ... and I even asked if the same holds true if they were used as mains and he told me yep, no problems.

Interesting. Though I haven't heard any Axioms in a recessed space, I have heard others and, for me, the difference in sound was very noticable. It wasn't night and day in terms of great sounding and awful sounding, but it was clearly evident that the sound was just "different" (can't think of a good description right now).

I can't imagine that close boundaries around a speaker wouldn't affect the sound. How are the Axioms designed to avoid this?

I think you are right. You would get a lot of boundry re-enforcement, but most people would probably not care.

I would think as long as the drivers are even with or protruding from the front edges of the recessed area and there are several inches of clean area behind/sides/top of the speaker so the port can do it's job the speaker *should* work sonically fine and it really wouldn't be any different than having the center in a recessed cabinet like some stands are designed but it just doesn't 'picture' right and maybe because of the unorthodox placement our brain is probably telling us it won't work correctly so we automatically hear it as such.

I guess.

The wall behind my left and center M80s is about 8’ farther back than the wall behind my right M80. I would love to be able to put them right under (flush with) the screen but if the left M80 isn’t pulled out so that the drivers are at least 3’ from the wall immediately behind I notice a difference in the imaging.

Also, when I had my M22s set up as wide speakers the drivers were a little farther from and angled off from the walls and my Onkyo would set their crossovers at 60Hx. I’ve got them up against the back was as rear speakers right now and the auto-setup is setting them to 40Hz crossover.

In my apartment when I had my QS8s corner loaded my Denon was setting them to 60Hz. Now the QS8 I have flush with the wall are being set by my Onkyo to 80 Hz while the one on stands out further into the room are being set to 90Hz.

So it seems to me there is a measurable effect going on, however, except for the imaging issue cause by putting one of 3 M80s close to a wall and corner loading the QS8s I never noticed any effect with my ears.

Given the boundary reinforcement I was getting with corner loaded QS8s I imagine if you put a rear ported M80 in a recess even if it had a few inches around it for the sound to escape that the reverberation of the sound in the recess before I escaped would play havoc with some frequencies. Most recommendations are not to even put “bookshelf” speakers in an actual bookshelf especially if they are rear ported.

Are you talking feet or inches wrt the 8' and 3'?

‘ = feet
“ = inches

Sorry I thought that was still ubiquitous in the former colonies even with the adoption of the metric system (which I prefer).

That's what I thought, I just couldn't believe your left side of the wall was actually further back than your right side by 8ft.

This will make it easier to see why the distances are so different.

This is before the curtains.

http://www.axiomaudio.com/boards/ubbthre...true#Post277928

Here’s what it looks like now. Still need to get new carpet and get rid of the milk crates.

http://www.axiomaudio.com/boards/ubbthre...true#Post288745

I love when OP's stop by, ask a question, and vanish to the neutral zone, never to be heard again...

Makes sense now, thanks. Nice setup BTW

He/she may still be back. Something could've come up at work or home that has kept them from returning. It's happened to me before...

Thanks! Not as elegant as many home theaters but I am going for best PQ and SQ I can achieve aesthetics be dammed. As much as I love looking at pictures of home theaters that look like movie theaters or have some cool theme I decided I’d rather feel like I’m in the movie I’m watching or game I’m playing than in a movie theater. So my goal has been to create the best conditions I can for suspending disbelief.

All theaters look the same with the lights out, right?

Hi Rick,

Are you sure I told you that? Did I write that? Was it late in the day, and I'd already opened a bottle of wine?? ha, ha.

I usually advise against recessing any speakers into cubby holes or the like, unless you have the front edges protruding a bit, except for our in-cabinet speakers, where the crossover has been adjusted to compensate for certain wall/boundary effects that are inevitable if you recess speakers next to big flat surfaces.

I might have said that for speakers in a surround application because our ears are less bothered by coloration from surrounds than in the front channels. Put another way, we tolerate coloration or tonal variations from surrounds much better than in the front channels.

Cheers,
Alan

Hi Randy, he actually did an audition with me this weekend, so I have a feeling he's still around, just probably hasn't been back yet to see the cornucopia of knowledge you have thrown his way.

Speaking of vanishing... I've pulled a bit of a vanishing act myself. Nice to see a lot of the same people still hanging around here.

I've been busy building (and then enjoying the heck out of) a new media PC, which has resulted in me spending more time watching movies than being on the forums. I'll try to be better about checking in.

Jason

I was thinking it was you Alan, might have been Brent though ... it was back whenever we were building our room about five years ago and I had thought about building two recess areas in the rear wall that would house the M60s and I do remember being told it would be OK as long there were several inches of room to the sides, back and top and I also remember asking if it would make any difference if the speakers were used as mains or surrounds in this capacity and was told in either case that placement would have been fine.

I'll look and see if I can find the PM or email but I bet it is gone.

Maybe I was drinking at the time, that's certainly a 95% possibility.

Holy cow, maybe you were both drinking and weren't event talking about speakers at all

That's it.

The little missus is out shopping with a friend and I'm here alone reading about stereos and drinking on the internet at 2 in the afternoon ... it's time for a beer(s) and some tunes.

I'll catch y'all in a bit.

You should post about what went in to your media PC... unless there's as much to tell as there is about EFalardeau's coolest remote ever project.

Will do... I keep telling myself I need to, because without a doubt, (other than getting my Axioms) it is the most fun I've had with a project in the last few years. I'll put up some details over in the water cooler in the next few days.

Awesome. Thanks!

I also have been working on a Media PC and Rack, here ya go you asked for it,

My Gear List

HTPC: iCore 5 650, 8 gig memory, Asus H55-M EVO Pro, Win 7 64, intel 40 gb SSD, 1.5 TB WD Green "TV" drive, waiting on the ceton tuner, HDHomerun networked tuner, Dvico USB tuner (other tuners for sale :)), The case, Norco 10 bay hot swap drives rack mounted, SSD for OS, 2 drive bays for recorded TV, other 8 drives will be connected to my WHS by SAS connectors, cards and cables. (Haven't bought these 8 drives yet). TMT3 platinum, AnyDVD HD, and a couple of WMC add-ins

WHS: Gigabyte board, dual core AMD, 4 gb, 500 GB OS drive. 1 500 gb backup drive and 6 1.5 TB WD Green Drives, in a Norco 2u rack mount 8 bay hot swap case.


AVR: Onkyo TX-SR706 Rack mounted with MA faceplate


Gaming: Xbox 360, to be rack mounted no shelf and custom faceplate yet


Whole House Audio: Squeezebox Duet wifi controller and receiver,
Sherwood Amp 4 zome and Onkyo M282? PRO to 5 Zones


Rack: 24 port gigabite switch, a ups forget the specs. Voltage
regulator someday, MA temp gauge, Media dock, MA iDock (for sale:)), cable STB's going away after ceton.


Speakers: Axiom: Mains-W22s, Center(s) W150/W100, Surrounds QS4s, SW-
EP500 & a JBL 10" older than ....


Display: Samsung LN52A850S


Bedroom Display: Syntax 32" (and I have the parts to build a rack mounted HTPC for this location, but not complete.


Control: Harmony 900, SqueezeBox Duet, Hot link and old HArmony IR for the bedroom and hopefully Droid if someone ever writes the software.


Some other stuff!


Wants: Whole house automation, and finish rack


Did this quick, will update and provide exact
stats / model numbers sometime maybe

Jeff

The OP has now also experienced the ultimate (and common) Axiom thread hijack!

That's some great hardware you have there, Jeff. I would love to see it in action.

And at that prompt, Jeff the Pizza Delivery Man starts untying his apron.... ::Cue swanky porn music::

LOL!

Well you live pretty close, give me a couple months to finish somethings up and I'll have you over when your in the area.

I'm right below Blowing Rock & Boone, NC

Wish I would have seen the Pizza Guy thing before I posted the above response!

Ok Mark, that one cleared the center field fence.

Wow, I really set myself up for that one. Let's keep this a wordgasm only.

Well I've been enjoying the new speakers and rediscovering my music today, but damn, I have to go and start my shift at Domino's

Worked for about a year at the Domino’s in San Clemente CA while I was in the Marine Corps. There were more than a couple times pizza wasn’t all that was deliver. Everyone who worked evenings at that franchise was either a surfer, Marine or both which women knew =ed fit.

Mark, I’m pretty sure this one is in your strike zone.

So, what am I, your personal comic?

You mean, let me understand this cause, ya know maybe it's me, I'm a little f***ed up maybe, but I'm funny how, I mean funny like I'm a clown, I amuse you? I make you laugh, I'm here to f***in' amuse you? What do you mean "strike zone", "strike zone" how?

That cant turn out well

Dean and I are cool... It's a slightly modified quote from GoodFellas....

I was a kiddin, never have seen the bad thing in this forum yet!

I thought you might be, but then realized I never put a smiley at the end of my post....and if someone was not familiar with that scene in GoodFellas.....

Had me laughing my a$$ off as I was reading it!

Besides Jeff, Marks the funny one I’m just the straight man since I have no sense of humor that I’m aware of. It the Marine Corps had wanted me to have a sense of humor they would have issued me one.

Your sense of humor was in your a$$, but you just laughed it off!

Don’t quit your day job Charles.

Is it funnier if I get them to fire me instead?

Wow, lots of great info thanks everyone for the inputs. I've been taking care of other things (in the neutral zone) that's why I haven't responded. The in-wall speakers may be a good option. It would be nice to hear those though.

Els reveals Westwood inspiration
Watching Lee Westwood and realising how callaway x-22 irons good he was helped Ernie Els to take on and beat the world again this weekend.

You know if spammers and their engines could actually use proper grammar, I might be tempted to buy something.